Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
That proves my point. "... and when you have returned to Me..." means he left, that he did not endure until the end. (toast, right?)Of course he did.
And the Lord said, “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.” Luke 22:31-32
JLB
Why would I need that?Do you have faith from Jesus Christ for salvation?
JLB
Why would I need that?
I'm already saved in the here and now based on the finished work of the atonement.
That proves my point. "... and when you have returned to Me..." means he left, that he did not endure until the end. (toast, right?)
What I get from that is ...you not only don't believe in baptismal regeneration, but in any regeneration at all.the new man doesn't, but the old man that still ives within us even though god has declared him dead- can do nothing but sin. so when we yield to the old man- we sin! it is that simple! We know longer have to yield to the old man, but all do at times- that is why we were given 1 John 1:9.
1 John 2:1-3 King James Version (KJV)
Again this is for those who still walk in darkness-sin... and the opportunity awaits your use of the Advocate.2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Do you know how that "rejection" is manifested?People do not go to the lake of fire because they are sinners, but because they rejected the only means of salvation for their sins.
What you post says that there are two of you.The new man cannot sin, but the old man does!
What does the word "repent" mean?So you believe that opnly those who cease from sin have truly repented and are saved!
That would be against the rules here, so I can't say that.You declare that people who call themselves believers but commit a sin are not true believers--God will show you differently.
Have you never read..."Now we know that God heareth NOT sinners..." (John 9:31)Happens every day.
Thank God we can confess our sin, and be forgiven as well as cleansed of all unrighteousness.
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9J LB
Believers do not stand at teh White throne judgment. we are judges at the bema seat judgment where there is no condemnation!Are you saying that you "hope" to be saved one day (at the Final Judgment), if you endure until the end?
Explain why I need it.Ok so you don’t have faith in Christ for salvation?
JLB
That means he didn't endure until the end.He wandered away...
I would like to learn which scriptures you attribute that to, as it is something I have never studied.Believers do not stand at teh White throne judgment. we are judges at the bema seat judgment where there is no condemnation!
What I get from that is ...you not only don't believe in baptismal regeneration, but in any regeneration at all.
The old man is killed when it is crucified with Christ...at baptism into Christ's death. (Rom 6:6-7)
The new man is "raised with Christ to walk in newness of life". (Rom 6:4)
The old man is gone.
1 John 1:9 is intended for those who still walk in darkness, as those who walk in the light have been cleansed of all sin. (1 John 1:7)
Again this is for those who still walk in darkness-sin... and the opportunity awaits your use of the Advocate.
Let's throw the next two verses in here...
"And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." (1 John 2:3-4)
For those who still commit sin, those who continue to walk in the darkness, those who have not crucified the flesh, with the affections and lust, those who 'don't know Him', the Advocate awaits your submission to Godliness
Do you know how that "rejection" is manifested?
By sinning!
No sinner's names are written in the book of life.
I would like to learn which scriptures you attribute that to, as it is something I have never studied.
To me, belief is determined with obedience.
"Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul." (Heb 10:38-39)
Do you see the distinction between believers and those who draw back into perdition?
Do you see the difference in their fates?
Wouldn't that show that your prayers are not being answered?So you believe that the saved walk in sinless perfection and not in any darkness. Ok, then I pray you sin not, but when you do (and you will),
I wish you had continued down to verse 19..."For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."then I also pray you discover this in romans 5:
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Is that how you feel about Peter?You have God woooing sinners and making them saints- only if they sin no more.
Will you show me the bible's definition of "regeneration", please?I do believe in regeneration- the biblical definition just not yours I would suspect.
I'm sorry you don't believe that Jesus conquered sin.I am sorry you seem to believe that Jesus did not die for every single one of your sins, past, present, and future. You seem to promote a doctrine that says- Faith in Jesus getes you in, but screw up once you are in, and you were never really in. That is just salvation by works in a different dress!
I don't know about that, as verse 1 Cor 3:17 states clearly ..."If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are."2 cor. 5:10 judgment there is bema (cf. 1Cor. 3: 11-17) Compared to Rev.20:11 which is a thronos
YOu have to do some study to find that a bema was a raised dias where the judge for military parades or athletic competitions stood. Every one who stood before the bema was qualified (saved). It was for the purpose of judging performance for handing out rewards- not punishment.
If one has "passed from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of His Son", how can there be sin in there?When you couple that with all the verses that declare we have passed from judgment, we are once for all translated fromn the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of His Son, we are perfectged forever, etc.etc.etc you learn that our judgment is for the purpose of trying our works done in His name to see we are rewarded crowns or not! from 1 cor. 3:
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
We are saved because of Jesus- not our works, sin is not brought up for us- for it was forever judged at the cross and punished at the cross, so itr is our "good" works if they were wrought by God or by our own agenda.
Wouldn't that show that your prayers are not being answered?
I wish you had continued down to verse 19..."For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."
Is that how you feel about Peter?
He said..."Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)
No "turn from" sin---no gift of the Holy Ghost.
If man continues to commit sin, while calling Jesus their Lord, it makes it look like Jesus is telling them to commit sin and they are obedient to their Lord.
Will you show me the bible's definition of "regeneration", please?
I use..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Cor 5:17)
Those who are not in Christ are not "new creatures".
There is no sin in Christ, so those committing sin are not in Christ either.
I'm sorry you don't believe that Jesus conquered sin.
There is no sin in love.
There is no darkness in light.
I was baptismally regenerated, when I was "raised with Christ to walk in newness of life". (Rom 6:4)
How can sin manifest that new life?
Wouldn't that show that your prayers are not being answered?
I wish you had continued down to verse 19..."For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."
Is that how you feel about Peter?
He said..."Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)
No "turn from" sin---no gift of the Holy Ghost.
If man continues to commit sin, while calling Jesus their Lord, it makes it look like Jesus is telling them to commit sin and they are obedient to their Lord.
Will you show me the bible's definition of "regeneration", please?
I use..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Cor 5:17)
Those who are not in Christ are not "new creatures".
There is no sin in Christ, so those committing sin are not in Christ either.
I'm sorry you don't believe that Jesus conquered sin.
There is no sin in love.
There is no darkness in light.
I was baptismally regenerated, when I was "raised with Christ to walk in newness of life". (Rom 6:4)
How can sin manifest that new life?
Or, you can't believe that anyone actually loves God above all else.All this can be boiled down to you believe in sinless perfection and you have ceased from every sin in thought word and deed! That is serious heresy my brother.
If you are "in Christ" you have been made free from sin and the second death.Jesus conquered sin and death by paying the price for sin and then rising from the dead.
I believe Paul is preaching to both believers and unbelievers.So when Paul wrote Romans 12 according to your doctrine- he was writing to unbelievers. He told them to no longer let the world squeeze you into its image- but to be metamorphed by the renewing of your mind! You declare that as soon as someone has been baptismally regenerated- they are not allowed any failure but have to be theologically complete so they will not sin!
I can assure you that living a Godly life is no "problem".Your biggest problem is you fail to recognize the 2 realities of a believer- our position in Christ which is sinless perfection and our experience in life- which is growing towards that sinless perfection!
All the words in the bible are for anybody who is seeking God...believer and unbeliever.Paul nor Peter nor any NT writers wrote their letters to unbelievers but to the saints!
As "perfection" is such a gradual transformation (to you), I guess you think that sanctification is too.Remember the words of the writer of Hebrews:
Hebrews 10:13-15 King James Version (KJV)
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
In the Greek it says- He has made perfect (complete) once for all time , those who are being made holy!
If I am dead and my life is hid with Christ in God, and sit in heavenly places in Christ Jesus, how can I commit sin?Colossians 3:3
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Ephesians 2:6
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Do you think God would withhold the ability to reject temptations?Romans 8:
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us
I don't "have to" maintain anything; I have been allowed, by the power of God, to manifest Christ on earth.Romans 5:
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement
No matter how you want to mask it , your belief is that Jesus gave you the ticket to heaven, but you have to maintain that salvation by 100% good works. That puts you outside of biblical truth.
Do you suppose God would have left Paul without the ability to keep the flesh dead...daily?Paul said he needed to die daily
1 Corinthians 15:31
I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
1 Corinthians 5 King James Version (KJV)
I sure hope that sinner finally had a REAL "turn from sin".5 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Then in 2 Cor. 2 he commanded the church to welcome him back in and confirm their love!
He never had it, as he manifested that he still walked in the flesh instead of in the Spirit.But according to your doctrine he lost his salvation or never had it. If he lost it how could he get it back again? Do believers who struggle gain and lose their salvation multiple times? You seem to serve a God who is far more loving to the lost than to his own children!
Are sinners "following" Jesus?But the Word of God says:
John 10:27-29 King James Version (KJV)
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
I have been walking with the Lord for over 44 years now. I have failed the Lord (sinned) too many times in those 44 years. According to you I am not saved, but according to God, I am still His and every time I fall short, and acknowledge my sin- He forgives and cleanses.
Jesus commanded us to forgive 70 X7 but your doctrine says if a person sins- they are not even His!
Hearing, believing, having faith are all connected to 1 Cor 15:1-4, and trusting in God’s righteousness which is revealed in the gospel this is through believing, the gospel and abiding in him through faith.Hearing, believing, having faith, repenting of sin, confession, and enduring till the end are not listed in 1 Co 2:15 either...does that make them non-essential for salvation?
So when the new man in Christ sins in his old man in the flesh, is he still sinning?The new man cannot sin, but the old man does!
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?