Ttalkkugjil
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- Mar 6, 2019
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My point is that infant baptism is not believer's baptism.
The infant has no choice in the matter, nor knowledge of what it means.
Unless you can explain how it is.
God’s plan isn't confined to the Jews. "In whom also you, having heard Truth, your salvation, in whom also, having trusted, you were sealed by the Spirit."
In the Gentiles' case also, as Paul shows in addressing the Ephesian church, God’s purpose was realized. They've been brought to faith in Jesus by accepting the Truth, the message which testifies of the truth, the Gospel which tells them of the salvation gained by Jesus. In this way they've been sealed with the Spirit.
When working faith, the Spirit comes into a person's heart, dwells in them, becomes their faith's seal and gives them the certainty that they're God's own. Preservation in the faith's the Spirit's work. She called us, enlightened us, sanctified us and kept us.
My understanding of this is that water baptism is a ceremony.Agreed that paedobaptism isn't credobaptism.
I would like to challenge your position on this. I see in the scriptures a separate and secondary experience to water baptism and the Spirit that we receive at salvation. Specifically, the baptism with the Holy Spirit, the enduement of power.The most important thing about the word "baptism" in the New Testament has nothing to do with water, based on post #238 above.
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My understanding of this is that water baptism is a ceremony.
A ceremony is an outward sign of an inward reality.
Water baptism is a public testimony and witness to the baptizee's decision to follow Christ. We cannot make this decision for another.
Saint Steven said:It makes no sense to me that an unwilling/unaware participant is making a public testimony to follow Christ. And that this equates to salvation. I know that many churches teach this. And follow-up with Confirmation at the age of understanding.
Perhaps I am mistaken, but I thought you were arguing in favor of infant baptism. ???Okay.
Your spirit is OSAS when it is born again....no partial rebirths. Either you are or you are not spirit saved. THEN you start working out the salvation of your soul, which is very tough to measure. That's what the judgment seat of Christ is for, where every work will be judged. Those works will be a reflection as to how saved it became. No one has a saved body that I see. All are stepping closer to the grave every day.I'm always concerned about applying unmeasurable qualifications to salvation.
We are saved by accepting (by faith) the finished work of the atonement. Paid in full.
As soon as you put any other requirement on it, how can it be measured?
Did you repent enough? (who knows?)
Could you have repented more? (sure)
Did you repent enough? (who knows?
It's a vicious circle.
That's interesting. What do you make of this?Your spirit is OSAS when it is born again....no partial rebirths. Either you are or you are not spirit saved. THEN you start working out the salvation of your soul, which is very tough to measure. That's what the judgment seat of Christ is for, where every work will be judged. Those works will be a reflection as to how saved it became. No one has a saved body that I see. All are stepping closer to the grave every day.
Your spirit is, or is not, justified/saved. Your soul is being sanctified/saved. And nobody has a g body that is glorified/saved.
Perhaps I am mistaken, but I thought you were arguing in favor of infant baptism. ???
That's an unusual position for a Baptist of 20 years and a Seminarian. Why do you hold that position? It seems you should know better? Typically churches that support/administer infant baptism are adamantly against rebaptism at a later time.I stand in support of infant baptism, yes. Which is not to say that I believe infants alone should be baptized. I believe that others who come to believe should also experience the Sacrament.
That's an unusual position for a Baptist of 20 years and a Seminarian. Why do you hold that position? It seems you should know better?
How do you explain the "baptismal regeneration" of an nonconsenting infant?Better or different? My views began to change while in seminary. I began to study Luther's works. At first, baptismal regeneration's idea seemed strange to me. However, with the Spirit's guidance, I accepted it.
How do you explain the "baptismal regeneration" of an nonconsenting infant?
That's interesting. What do you make of this?
John 5:24
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
This was spoken by Jesus when it was true. Jesus hadn't died and therefore.... "nor can anyone cross over".Luke 16:26
And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
Not if it violates his word.The God I believe in doesn't require my consent to act. Does the God you believe in require yours?
Not if it violates his word.
John 1:11-13
He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
Interesting, because it was with the Spirit's guidance that I rejected it.Better or different? My views began to change while in seminary. I began to study Luther's works. At first, baptismal regeneration's idea seemed strange to me. However, with the Spirit's guidance, I accepted it.
Please share your biblical justification for infant baptism.
Well then tell me where it is, so I can go read it. HELLO!!!!
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