Is Baptismal Regeneration False?

[BABerean2]

Christ sent them=men to teach or preach and baptize. With your theology Christ should have said preach and teach and they will be auto-baptized.

Paul reveals the importance of water baptism below.

1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.


What did Peter say about the encounter with Cornelius in the Book of Acts?

Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Act 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

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[JLHargus]

BABerean: Paul reveals the importance of water baptism below.

1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. [/quote]

JL: As I have pointed out before taking a verse apart from the whole of scripture ends in contradicting other scripture.

[1Cor1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. 12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16 And I baptizedalso the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.]

Every person who heard Paul and believed was water baptism by Paul or another person. Billy Graham a traveling evangelist didn’t baptize those who came forward at his crusades. That was left for the locals to do the same with Paul.

Yes Paul really does reveal the importance of water baptism below.

[Eph5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,] how was Paul washed from his sins?

[Acts22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.]

[1Cor6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.]

[Titus3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost[/B][/b]; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.]

[Col2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;]

[Rms6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.]

[Gal3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.]

BABerean: What did Peter say about the encounter with Cornelius in the Book of Acts?

Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Act 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? [/quote]

JL: What was the like gift? Speaking in tongues.

[Acts10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.]

[1Pt3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:]

Peter teaches water baptism does now save us. If not water baptism it would be ridiculous to say those saved by water is the like figure of baptism.] washing away our sins giving us a good conscience toward God.

[Mk16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.]

[Eph4: 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,]

 

[BABerean2]

how was Paul washed from his sins?

When Peter retold the story of what happened at the house of Cornelius did he put the emphasis on the Spirit, or on the water in the passage below?

Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
(Which baptism is being emphasized in this verse?)
Act 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
(The evidence of "repentance unto life" was the gift of the Holy Ghost, instead of the water.)

It was not the baptism of the water that washes away sin.

If you baptize a baby one hundred times in water, you may wash off some dirt, but you will never wash off their sin with water.

How many babies baptized as infants have grown up to become atheists and agnostics?

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[Saint Steven]

A baptized person who does not believe is not regenerated by baptism.

Right. They are regenerated by belief.

 

[Phil W]

John the Baptist's baptism was of repentance believing or having faith in the one to come, Christ. John’s baptism was only a sign or symbol of purification. Christ’s baptism is a sacrament and accomplishes what it signifies cleaning washing away sin, giving the Holy Spirit being born again a new creation. The Holy Spirit and baptism go hand and hand else why would Paul ask about baptism when he found they had not heard of the Holy Spirit? Peter gives the definitive answer on how one is saved=set on the road to salvation. Salvation is not a onetime event but a life time pilgrimage, I have been saved, I am saved, I hope to be saved.

Though I agree with the overall precepts you present, I must object to parts of the above.
Primarily this..."John’s baptism was only a sign or symbol of purification."
It is written..."To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins," (Luke 1:77)
Taken along with..." And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;" (Luke 3:3)...we see that baptism (in water) did remit sins and afforded salvation.
John's baptism was way more than just a sign or symbol...it was the real thing.

 

[BABerean2]

Though I agree with the overall precepts you present, I must object to parts of the above.
Primarily this..."John’s baptism was only a sign or symbol of purification."
It is written..."To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins," (Luke 1:77)
Taken along with..." And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;" (Luke 3:3)...we see that baptism (in water) did remit sins and afforded salvation.
John's baptism was way more than just a sign or symbol...it was the real thing.

Based on the scripture found below, the most important thing about the word "baptism" in the New Testament has nothing to do with water.

Luk 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:


Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?


Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Act 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?


Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

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[Saint Steven]

Though I agree with the overall precepts you present, I must object to parts of the above.
Primarily this..."John’s baptism was only a sign or symbol of purification."
It is written..."To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins," (Luke 1:77)
Taken along with..." And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;" (Luke 3:3)...we see that baptism (in water) did remit sins and afforded salvation.
John's baptism was way more than just a sign or symbol...it was the real thing.

We need to consider the context and all the words in Luke chapter one.
The verse you cited and the context below is taken from Zechariah’s Song. (prophecy)
I think the key thing here is the introduction of "the knowledge of salvation" (verse 77) and "a baptism of repentance" (Luke 3:3) See below.

This was a new concept for those under the sacrificial system. The sins could be forgiven as a result of personal repentance (turning away) from sins. The water baptism was indeed a ceremony and outward sign of the inner reality. Believe and be baptized.

Luke 1:76-79
And you, my child, will be called a prophet of the Most High;
for you will go on before the Lord to prepare the way for him,
77 to give his people the knowledge of salvation
through the forgiveness of their sins,
78 because of the tender mercy of our God,
by which the rising sun will come to us from heaven
79 to shine on those living in darkness
and in the shadow of death,
to guide our feet into the path of peace.”

Luke 3:3
He went into all the country around the Jordan,
preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

 

[ExTiff]

We need to consider the context and all the words in Luke chapter one.
The verse you cited and the context below is taken from Zechariah’s Song. (prophecy)
I think the key thing here is the introduction of "the knowledge of salvation" (verse 77) and "a baptism of repentance" (Luke 3:3) See below.

This was a new concept for those under the sacrificial system. The sins could be forgiven as a result of personal repentance (turning away) from sins. The water baptism was indeed a ceremony and outward sign of the inner reality. Believe and be baptized.

Luke 1:76-79
And you, my child, will be called a prophet of the Most High;
for you will go on before the Lord to prepare the way for him,
77 to give his people the knowledge of salvation
through the forgiveness of their sins,
78 because of the tender mercy of our God,
by which the rising sun will come to us from heaven
79 to shine on those living in darkness
and in the shadow of death,
to guide our feet into the path of peace.”

Luke 3:3
He went into all the country around the Jordan,
preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Repentance is key to acceptance of Salvation as a gift of God. Without posessing and using that 'key', access to the free gift of God, through the universal atonement of Christ, is restricted only by our own reluctance to accept the truth of our own rebellion against the spirit of forgiveness seeking to 'draw us to Christ'. That 'resistance' can last a lifetime, or vaporise in an instant of honest reflection upon our true spiritual state with respect to God's rule or our opposition to Him, in our lives.

 

[Hillsage]

Though I agree with the overall precepts you present, I must object to parts of the above.
Primarily this..."John’s baptism was only a sign or symbol of purification."
It is written..."To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins," (Luke 1:77)
Taken along with..." And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;" (Luke 3:3)...we see that baptism (in water) did remit sins and afforded salvation.
John's baptism was way more than just a sign or symbol...it was the real thing.

The water baptism forgiveness of sins was for the temporal consequence of sin, not the eternal consequence. If it was eternal, then there would be no reason for Jesus to die on the cross. Today if you sin, you will reap what you sow temporally 'here and now'. But the eternal consequence of that sin is still under the blood of Jesus. John's baptism was an imparted righteousness baptism and not the imputed righteousness which came from the death of Jesus. Jesus was baptized by John to "fulfill righteousness", and Jesus wasn't talking about his death on a cross when he made that statement.

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

The water was the symbolic ritual, the repentance was spiritual substance and reality of baptism.

 

[Saint Steven]

Repentance is key to acceptance of Salvation as a gift of God. Without posessing and using that 'key', access to the free gift of God, through the universal atonement of Christ, is restricted only by our own reluctance to accept the truth of our own rebellion against the spirit of forgiveness seeking to 'draw us to Christ'. That 'resistance' can last a lifetime, or vaporise in an instant of honest reflection upon our true spiritual state with respect to God's rule or our opposition to Him, in our lives.

I'm always concerned about applying unmeasurable qualifications to salvation.
We are saved by accepting (by faith) the finished work of the atonement. Paid in full.

As soon as you put any other requirement on it, how can it be measured?
Did you repent enough? (who knows?)
Could you have repented more? (sure)
Did you repent enough? (who knows?)
It's a vicious circle.

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

Salvation is transmitted to us through regeneration's washing. God uses water's washing. Baptism, as a means to seal salvation's benefits.

Through Baptism, regeneration is wrought in humanity's heart. Baptism's water renews the heart and mind.

The renewing thus begun by the Spirit continues through the Christian's life. The new spiritual creature created in Baptism is daily renewed.

The Spirit endows Baptism's water with such properties that it becomes the bearer of God's salvation. Her work in the believer's heart continues daily. She's richly shed upon us.

What God had promised in the OT was fulfilled in the NT's time, starting with Pentecost.

In Baptism, the Spirit comes to us with her gift of regeneration. She impresses upon our hearts a clear idea and understanding of Jesus' satisfaction in its application to us.

It's Christ who sends and imparts the Spirit in Baptism. This gives us confidence. Christ's mediation between God and humanity is imparted in Baptism through the Word.

☆ God the Father poured out upon us the Spirit through Christ. ☆

 

[Shimokita]

There are several reasons to be opposed to baptismal regeneration. I'll mention just one to begin:

Baptism is analogous to the OT covenant sign of circumcision. Those who were circumcised in the OT were included in the covenant, but they were not regenerated by their circumcision. They were regenerated only by the working of the Spirit through faith in the circumcision of the heart. Baptism, likewise, does not itself regenerate apart from the Holy Spirit working through faith.

This is an interesting argument, but if we are comparing an Old Testament type to a New Testament anti-type, the New Testament anti-type is always superior to the old. For example, the Old Testament sacrifices could never completely atone for sin, while our Lord’s Sacrifice on the cross completely atones for sin.

So the fact that the OT type may lack some feature by itself does not prove that the NT anti-type also lacks it.

 

[Saint Steven]

Salvation is transmitted to us through regeneration's washing. God uses water's washing. Baptism, as a means to seal salvation's benefits.

Through Baptism, regeneration is wrought in humanity's heart. Baptism's water renews the heart and mind.

The renewing thus begun by the Spirit continues through the Christian's life. The new spiritual creature created in Baptism is daily renewed.

The Spirit endows Baptism's water with such properties that it becomes the bearer of God's salvation. Her work in the believer's heart continues daily. She's richly shed upon us.

What God had promised in the OT was fulfilled in the NT's time, starting with Pentecost.

In Baptism, the Spirit comes to us with her gift of regeneration. She impresses upon our hearts a clear idea and understanding of Jesus' satisfaction in its application to us.

It's Christ who sends and imparts the Spirit in Baptism. This gives us confidence. Christ's mediation between God and humanity is imparted in Baptism through the Word.

☆ God the Father poured out upon us the Spirit through Christ. ☆

Your post is as passionate as it is unbiblical.
Unbaptized Christians would still be lost by your standard.
Whereas infants baptized as unbelievers would be saved. Right?

Believe and be baptized.

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

Your post is as passionate as it is unbiblical.

Thank you for the former.

Unbaptized Christians would still be lost by your standard.

No, because while Baptism is necessary it is not absolutely necessary.

Whereas infants baptized as unbelievers would be saved. Right?

Yes, I believe so. That's how I got saved.

 

[Saint Steven]

No, because while Baptism is necessary it is not absolutely necessary.

It either is or it isn't.

 

[Saint Steven]

Yes, I believe so. That's how I got saved.

What did you repent from? (if you did)

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

What did you repent from? (if you did)

That's your business, is it?

 

[BABerean2]

Salvation is transmitted to us through regeneration's washing. God uses water's washing. Baptism, as a means to seal salvation's benefits.

Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.


1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?


Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

.

 

[Saint Steven]

That's your business, is it?

My point is that infant baptism is not believer's baptism.
The infant has no choice in the matter, nor knowledge of what it means.
Unless you can explain how it is.

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.


1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?


Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

.

God’s plan isn't confined to the Jews. "In whom also you, having heard Truth, your salvation, in whom also, having trusted, you were sealed by the Spirit."

In the Gentiles' case also, as Paul shows in addressing the Ephesian church, God’s purpose was realized. They've been brought to faith in Jesus by accepting the Truth, the message which testifies of the truth, the Gospel which tells them of the salvation gained by Jesus. In this way they've been sealed with the Spirit.

When working faith, the Spirit comes into a person's heart, dwells in them, becomes their faith's seal and gives them the certainty that they're God's own. Preservation in the faith's the Spirit's work. She called us, enlightened us, sanctified us and kept us.