Is Baptismal Regeneration False?

[JLHargus]

BABerean2: Can you show us the water in the verse below?
Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, [/quote]

JL: I don’t see repent or remission of sins or being added to a fellowship in Eph1:13 either and why should there be. Paul is writing to a Christian congregation there would be no reason to go into every little detail explaining things that are elementary and well known.

[Hb6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit.]

[Acts19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.]

If the Holy Spirit was received before baptism why would Paul ask, unto what then were ye baptized, and then baptize them to receive the Holy Spirit? Evidently more is needed than belief and faith in Christ to be born again and in Jn3:5 we see what it is, except born of water and of the Spirit cannot enter the kingdom..

John the Baptist's baptism was of repentance believing or having faith in the one to come, Christ. John’s baptism was only a sign or symbol of purification. Christ’s baptism is a sacrament and accomplishes what it signifies cleaning washing away sin, giving the Holy Spirit being born again a new creation. The Holy Spirit and baptism go hand and hand else why would Paul ask about baptism when he found they had not heard of the Holy Spirit? Peter gives the definitive answer on how one is saved=set on the road to salvation. Salvation is not a onetime event but a life time pilgrimage, I have been saved, I am saved, I hope to be saved.

[1Pt3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:] Peter is speaking of water baptism otherwise it would be ridiculous to say those saved by water is the like figure of baptism.

Also if not water baptism there would be no need to clarify it is not for putting away of the filth of the flesh. Water would be used to remove filth from the flesh. Why would Peter even mention bodily filth if not talking about water? Peter is telling us the purpose of water baptism is not to wash away bodily filth. Baptism washes away our sins giving us a good conscience toward God.

[Acts22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.] Calling on the name of the Lord, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

[Acts2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.]

Paul didn’t receive the Holy Spirit when he first believed but a few days later when baptized.

[Acts9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.]

[Acts9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. 18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.]

[Acts22:12 And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there, 13 Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him. 14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth. 15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard. 16 and now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away they sins, calling on the name of the Lord.]

 

[JLHargus]

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[JLHargus]

BABerean2: Ephesians 1:13

(CJB) Furthermore, you who heard the message of the truth, the Good News offering you deliverance, and put your trust in the Messiah were sealed by him with the promised Ruach HaKodesh,

(ESV) In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

(Geneva) In whom also ye haue trusted, after that ye heard the worde of trueth, euen the Gospel of your saluation, wherein also after that ye beleeued, ye were sealed with the holy Spirite of promes,

(Greek NT TR) εν ω και υμεις ακουσαντες τον λογον της αληθειας το ευαγγελιον της σωτηριας υμων εν ω και πιστευσαντες εσφραγισθητε τω πνευματι της επαγγελιας τω αγιω

(GW) You heard and believed the message of truth, the Good News that he has saved you. In him you were sealed with the Holy Spirit whom he promised.

(LITV-TSP) in whom also you, hearing the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also believing you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

(KJV) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

(KJV+) InG1722 whomG3739 yeG5210 alsoG2532 trusted, after that ye heardG191 theG3588 wordG3056 of truth,G225 theG3588 gospelG2098 of yourG5216 salvation:G4991 inG1722 whomG3739 alsoG2532 after that ye believed,G4100 ye were sealedG4972 with that holyG40 SpiritG4151 of promise,G1860

(NKJV) In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

(YLT) in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth—the good news of your salvation—in whom also having believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of the promise,

You can call it steps, or a process, or whatever else you want to use as a label. However, nobody has been "born-again" of the Spirit of God without going through what is found in the text of the verse above. Have you heard, and then believed, and then been sealed with the Holy Spirit? [/quote]

JL: Of course an adult must hear and believe the gospel then be sealed. Peter when preaching the first sermon after Christ gives the whole picture not just a side shot. He tells us what we must do to be sealed with the Holy Spirit. You have to take what the whole of scripture teaches not just isolated verse interpreted apart from the whole. How do you harmonize Acts2:37-42 with your post?

[Acts2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. 40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. 41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. 42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.]

JL: I heard the Word by God’s grace, I believed by grace, I repented by grace, I was baptized by grace, for remission of sin by grace and received the gift of the Holy Spirit by grace, Acts2:38. When I was baptized my sins were washed away by grace, Acts22:16. I was born again by water and of the Spirit by grace, Jn3:5. I became a child of God by grace, Gal3:26-25. I was saved from a crooked generation, and added to the covenant family of God by grace Acts2:40-41. I Continue in the apostles fellowship, doctrine, breaking bread and prayers by grace, Acts2:42. And in praising God by grace, Acts2:47. All is God’s grace.

 

[BABerean2]

Acts9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. 18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

When you see the word "baptized" you see John the Baptist's baptism, found in Luke 3:16.
When I see the word "baptized" I see the Holy Ghost baptism from Christ, found in the same verse.

Act 9:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
Act 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
Act 9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

Luk 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Act 9:19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.
Act 9:20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.
Act 9:21 But all that heard him were amazed, and said; Is not this he that destroyed them which called on this name in Jerusalem, and came hither for that intent, that he might bring them bound unto the chief priests?

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[BABerean2]

Because I believe in the promise of the Gospel, I recognize that since having been raised up in the faith I have always believed. There simply was never a time I didn't believe. That is why I can say I have believed in Christ since before I could speak. Because God does not rely on my works to save me, but instead--as He promises--works through the power of His word. That word which I had been hearing and receiving since I was in my mother's womb, that word which I heard lovingly told me to me as a helpless infant in my mother's arms as she cradled me and gave thanks to God.

John the Baptist was baptized with the Holy Spirit while in his mother's womb.

Cornelius was baptized with the Holy Spirit after hearing Peter preach the Gospel.
The experience of Cornelius is found in Ephesians 1:13.

The experience you are describing sounds more like that of John the Baptist.

My parents were Lutherans who had me sprinkled as an infant.
However, my acceptance of the Gospel was like that of Cornelius.

The most important thing in the New Testament about the word "baptism" has nothing to do with water, based on Luke 3:16, and John 14:26, and 1 Corinthians 3:16, and Romans 8:9, and 1 John 2:27.

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[ViaCrucis]

John the Baptist was baptized with the Holy Spirit while in his mother's womb.

That isn't what Scripture says. Scripture says,

"for he will be great before the Lord. And he must not drink wine or strong drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb." - Luke 1:15

John was filled with the Holy Spirit even from his mother's womb. Nothing there about being "baptized with the Holy Spirit" while in his mother's womb.

Cornelius was baptized with the Holy Spirit after hearing Peter preach the Gospel.

Yes, the Holy Spirit fell upon the household of Cornelius just as the Spirit had fallen on the disciples in the upper room. These are the only two instances which Scripture connects with the phrase "baptism with the Holy Spirit".

The experience of Cornelius is found in Ephesians 1:13.

Ephesians 1:13 doesn't describe Cornelius and his household's experience. Because the experience Cornelius and his household experienced was a profound experience that God accomplished as a sign that Gentiles were included in the Gospel mission.

The experience you are describing sounds more like that of John the Baptist.

John came preaching and baptizing to point toward the One who would come after him, that is why his baptism was one of repentance, in anticipation of the Messiah. So no, that isn't my experience, because the Christ has come, His name is Jesus, and He suffered under Pilate, was crucified, buried, dead, and is risen from the dead, ascended into the heavens, and seated at the right hand of the Father from whence He will come again to judge the living and the dead. And the baptism I received was not a baptism of repentance, but Christian baptism, as Christ Himself instituted. That is Christian Baptism.

My parents were Lutherans who had me sprinkled as an infant.
However, my acceptance of the Gospel was like that of Cornelius.

The Apostle St. Peter came to your house to preach, and God took that opportunity to pour out His Spirit on your entire household as a sign that the Gospel was to go out to the uncircumcised? I'll be honest friend, I don't think that was your experience.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[BABerean2]

And the baptism I received was not a baptism of repentance, but Christian baptism, as Christ Himself instituted. That is Christian Baptism.

The Apostle St. Peter came to your house to preach, and God took that opportunity to pour out His Spirit on your entire household as a sign that the Gospel was to go out to the uncircumcised? I'll be honest friend, I don't think that was your experience.

Are you saying you have not repented?

Mat_3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mat_4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mar_1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Mar_6:12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.

Luk_13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Luk_13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Luk_16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

Luk_17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.

Luk_17:4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

Act_2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act_3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Act_8:22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

Act_17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Act_26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.


Rev_2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy
candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev_2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Rev_2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

Rev_2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Rev_3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Rev_3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

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[BABerean2]

How do you harmonize Acts2:37-42 with your post?

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
(Peter preached the Gospel truth to them by making the statement above.)

Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
(This verse reveals that many in the crowd were circumcised in the heart at that moment, as found in Romans 2:28-29. That was the moment of their conversion. It is also like what is found in Ephesians 1:13. See also 1 John 2:27, and John 14:26. Those in the New Covenant have their own internal teacher.)

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
(Many in the crowd had already repented in verse 37. Along with John 19:37 this is also the fulfillment of Zechariah 12:10.)

Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

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[ViaCrucis]

Are you saying you have not repented?

Even though you know very well that isn't what I said and that you are simply being disingenous I'll humor your question anyway: The Christian life is a life of daily and regular repentance. So trusting in God's kindness and the hope I have in Jesus, I cling only to God's grace, confessing the enormity of my sin, and trusting only in Him.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[JLHargus]

BABerean2: Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. (Peter preached the Gospel truth to them by making the statement above.)

Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? (This verse reveals that many in the crowd were circumcised in the heart at that moment, as found in Romans 2:28-29.

That was the moment of their conversion. It is also like what is found in Ephesians 1:13. See also 1 John 2:27, and John 14:26. Those in the New Covenant have their own internal teacher.)

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Many in the crowd had already repented in verse 37. Along with John 19:37 this is also the fulfillment of Zechariah 12:10.)

Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. [/quote]

JL: Acts2:37 doesn’t reveal anyone was circumcised in the heart at that moment. They believed but had not accepted or rejected but asked, what must we do. What did Peter tell them?


[Acts2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.].



Peter continued [Acts2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. 41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. 42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.]



We see in verse 40 they were not saved till after told what they must do and many other words exhorting saying, Save yourselves. In Verse 41 we see those who gladly received Peter’s word were baptized, saving themselves and added to them continuing in the apostles’ doctrine=one teaching, one visible fellowship, breaking of bread=one worship=mass and prayers=liturgy. The one visible body of Christ of Christ.



Amen to [Rm2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.]

We see that accomplished in Col2:10-13 which clearly tells us how we are circumcised by the circumcision of Christ. Being buried with him in baptism making us complete in him, forgiven all trespasses through faith of the operation of God. Rms2:28-29 mirrors;

[Acts2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.]

And [Acts22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.] We are regenerated and set on the road to salvation, [Titus3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;]

[Col2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;]

 

[BABerean2]

We see in verse 40 they were not saved till after told b]what they must do[/b] and many other words exhorting saying, Save yourselves. In Verse 41 we see those who gladly received Peter’s word were baptized, saving themselves and added to them continuing in the apostles’ doctrine=one teaching, one visible fellowship, breaking of bread=one worship=mass and prayers=liturgy. The one visible body of Christ of Christ.

Based on what you have said above, Cornelius received the Holy Spirit before he was saved.


Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

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[JLHargus]

Original post JL: We see in verse 40 they were not saved till after told b]what they must do[/b] and many other words exhorting saying, Save yourselves. In Verse 41 we see those who gladly received Peter’s word were baptized, saving themselves and added to them continuing in the apostles’ doctrine=one teaching, one visible fellowship, breaking of bread=one worship=mass and prayers=liturgy. The one visible body of Christ of Christ.[/quote]

Based on what you have said above, Cornelius received the Holy Spirit before he was saved.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, .

JL: Not so, but that is exactly what you have done in a previous post.

Original post by Baberean Acts2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. (Peter preached the Gospel truth to them by making the statement above.)

Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? (This verse reveals that many in the crowd were circumcised in the heart at that moment, as found in Romans 2:28-29. [/quote]

JL: Cornelius and household were the first Gentiles to become Christian. They were given the gift of speaking in tongues as evidence to convince Jewish Christians with Peter that Gentiles were accepted of God for baptism without being circumcised.

This does not mean they were saved with the indwelling Holy Spirit. They were baptized for remission of sins and received the gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit. In the OT a donkey was given the gift to speak that donkey didn’t speak without a gift of the Holy Spirit.

[2Pt2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Boor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb donkey speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.]

Do you think the donkey was saved?

 

[BABerean2]

They were given the gift of speaking in tongues as evidence to convince Jewish Christians with Peter that Gentiles were accepted of God for baptism without being circumcised.

This does not mean they were saved with the indwelling Holy Spirit.

All false doctrines are revealed not by the scripture quoted by its proponents, but rather by the scripture they must ignore to make it work.

Any unbiased witness here can read your claim above and compare it to the Word of God found below, to see the truth.


Act 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

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[JLHargus]

They were given the gift of speaking in tongues as evidence to convince Jewish Christians with Peter that Gentiles were accepted of God for baptism without being circumcised.

This does not mean they were saved with the indwelling Holy Spirit.

BABerean2: All false doctrines are revealed not by the scripture quoted by its proponents, but rather by the scripture they must ignore to make it work.

Any unbiased witness here can read your claim above and compare it to the Word of God found below, to see the truth.


Act 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his namewhosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?[/quote]

JL: Not so, belief does not bring about immediate remission of sins. How does scripture tell us sins are remitted?

[Acts2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.]

[Acts22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.]

[Titus3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;]

[Col2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;]

[Rms6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.]

[Mk16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

[1Cor13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.]

We see in 1Cor13:1 it is possible to speak in tongues and even have faith yet not be saved. We also see a donkey spoke in a tongue of men.

[2Pt2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Boor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb donkey speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.]

The donkey was certainly not saved being indwelled by the Holy Spirit.

 

[BABerean2]

They were given the gift of speaking in tongues as evidence to convince Jewish Christians with Peter that Gentiles were accepted of God for baptism without being circumcised.

This does not mean they were saved with the indwelling Holy Spirit.

BABerean2: All false doctrines are revealed not by the scripture quoted by its proponents, but rather by the scripture they must ignore to make it work.

Any unbiased witness here can read your claim above and compare it to the Word of God found below, to see the truth.


Act 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his namewhosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

JL: Not so, belief does not bring about immediate remission of sins. How does scripture tell us sins are remitted?

[Acts2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.]

[Acts22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.]

[Titus3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;]

[Col2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;]

[Rms6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.]

[Mk16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

[1Cor13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.]

We see in 1Cor13:1 it is possible to speak in tongues and even have faith yet not be saved. We also see a donkey spoke in a tongue of men.

[2Pt2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Boor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb donkey speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.]

The donkey was certainly not saved being indwelled by the Holy Spirit.[/QUOTE]


Your problem is that you see the word "water" in every verse which contains the word "baptism", which is the baptism at the beginning of the following verse, instead of understanding that Christ baptizes with the Holy Spirit.

Luk 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:


Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his namewhosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.



Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

.

 

[JLHargus]

BABerean: Your problem is that you see the word "water" in every verse which contains the word "baptism", which is the baptism at the beginning of the following verse, instead of understanding that Christ baptizes with the Holy Spirit.


Luk 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:


Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, [/quote]



JL: I notice you didn’t post one of my posted baptism scriptures showing it isn’t water baptism. As for Lk3:16;


[Jn3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.]

JL: We see Paul wasn’t born again when he first believed. Paul didn’t have his sins remitted or receive the Holy Spirit when he had his conversion experience and first believed. It was three days later. Belief does not bring about immediate remission of sins. How does scripture tell us sins are remitted?

[Acts2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.]

[Acts22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.]

[Titus3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;]

[Col2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;]

[Rms6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.]

[Mk16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

[1Cor13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.]

We see in 1Cor13:1 it is possible to speak in tongues and even have faith yet not be saved. We also see a donkey spoke in a tongue of men.

[2Pt2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Boor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb donkey speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.] The donkey was certainly not saved being indwelled by the Holy Spirit, but received a gift by the Holy Spirit to speak in a tongue of man.

 

[BABerean2]

Belief does not bring about immediate remission of sins.

Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.


Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


An atheist who finds and reads a Bible on a desert island and comes to believe, will be saved, and will be baptized with the Holy Spirit, even if nobody is there to baptize them in water.
Do you deny this fact?

1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.


Is the "baptism" found in Mark 16:16, the baptism of the Holy Spirit, or the baptism of believers in water, based on the facts found above?
Which one is necessary for salvation, and which one is not?

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[JLHargus]

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[JLHargus]

JLHargus said: Belief does not bring about immediate remission of sins.

BABerean2: Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Is the "baptism" found in Mark 16:16, the baptism of the Holy Spirit, or the baptism of believers in water, based on the facts found above?
Which one is necessary for salvation, and which one is not?

JL: There is only one baptism for the forgiveness of sins as the Apostles Creed teaches. That baptism gives new birth by water and of the Spirit, Jn3:5 Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God, as Christ clearly tells us. Making the baptized a new creation, 2Cor5:17. Our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, Rms6:6. How all the above scriptures you posted is brought about can be seen in Acts2:36-42, which lays out the complete definitive answer to how one is saved and set on the road to salvation.

[Acts2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. 40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. 41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. 42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.]

Verse 38 Be baptized=remission of sins=Acts10:43. Verse 38 Receive the Holy Ghost=Spirit of God dwell in you=Rms8:9. Verse 39 The promise=Eph1:13. Verse 41 They that gladly received his word=believed=Mk16:16. Verse 41 Were baptized=anointing=1Jn2:27.

BABerean: An atheist who finds and reads a Bible on a desert island and comes to believe, will be saved, and will be baptized with the Holy Spirit, even if nobody is there to baptize them in water. Do you deny this fact?

JL: Baptism is necessary yet not an absolute necessity. God can act in whatever way, place or time He sees fit. Just as God has instituted a natural way for a child to be born there can be extraordinary means used in emergencies such as cesarean birth. God, the Great Physician has instituted an ordinary way for supernatural birth being born by water and of the Spirit=water baptism. If necessary God can act outside His instituted way and give supernatural birth in any way He wills.

 

[JLHargus]

BABerean: Is the "baptism" found in Mark 16:16, the baptism of the Holy Spirit, or the baptism of believers in water, based on the facts found above?
Which one is necessary for salvation, and which one is not?

JL: As I said before there is only one baptism for forgiveness of sins. Mt28:16-20 and Mk16:16 are both the same occasion the ascension of our Lord into heaven.

[Mt28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.]

[Mk16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17-18 …. 19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. 20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.]

Christ sent them=men to teach or preach and baptize. With your theology Christ should have said preach and teach and they will be auto-baptized.