Is baptism necessary to be saved?

[evangelist]

You asked for the place in the Scriptures where it talked about eating flesh and blood. What I quoted is that place

Of course, I don't think that Christ is being literal, in that when we partake of the Lord's Supper we are not actually drinking His blood and eating His body - but that is an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT TOPIC, so I will ask politely that anyone who wishes to contine talking about this, please please please - I beg you , do so in another thread

Let's stick to our original intent here and talk about baptism

No, we was asking about the key heaven and that is where we want to go, and someone else said the requirement is to eat Jesus Christ again, and again as they do .

I am so glad at least you don`t believe about actually eating Christ.

Now if you felt the same way about not actually getting repentance by a water baptism we will be in line of God will in unity praise God, and take some of the poison out the pie.

Still waiting to get an answer about the church of Christ belief, and do you know what they believe about water baptism which they preach and teach??

God Bless

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

No ... but do you?

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

getting Back on the Subject.......

Baptism is it necessary for salvation

lots of people have stated water and spirit and continue to discuss the subject......

In act 1:5 it states that there are two baptisms and one is greater

In eph 4:5 it states one one baptism saves

People that stand firmly in water baptism love John 3:5 how ever there is a bad translation after looking at other scripture you can see it...

Not only that BUT in John 7:37-39 it talks about the
Spirit being living water

In 1 cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jew or Gentile, whether we be bond or free, and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

this tells us who baptiizes

Romans 8:9 if one does not have the Spirit you are not mine

in conculsion
so water baptisim is not require for salvation but for christian daily living

 

[aggie03]

aggie03

You admitted that water baptism is forgiveness of sin , well what does the blood of Jesus does???

Baptism is not forgiveness of sins. I have not, to the best of my knowledge, ever said this. What I have said is the following: We can only have our sins forgiven by the grace of God in that He gave His Son to die upon the cross, the perfect sacrifice once for all.

God in His infinite wisdom, has chosen baptism to be the contact point for His grace. Acts 2:38 says that baptism is for the remission of sins, not that baptism is the remission of sins. This is a very important distinction.

When we are baptized we are connected to the death of Christ, we are buried with Him and then we are raised again to walk in a newness of life (Romans 6:4). Colossians 2:12 teaches us that we are "buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead." (NKJV)

The death of Christ is important, but also is His ressurection. We can only have a hope in the promise of eternal life because not only did Christ die upon the cross, but God raised Him from the dead! This is the gospel message! And we cannot be connected with any of it without being baptized into Christ. This is why baptism is necessary. God has said this. God, through His grace and working through our faith, has decided that when we are baptized for the remission of our sins (as He has said in Acts 2:38) that He will hold true to His promise and forgive us of them. This is how we are saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8) .

Praise be to God, who has given us a way to be reconciled to Him

How many time we must be forgiven of our sins before we are saved??

There's a couple of different ways to answer this question depending on what you mean by being saved and whether or not you're talking about sins that have happened before one is baptized or sins that occur after an individual has already become a child of God.

If you'll clarify these for me, I'll get back to you with an answer. I just want to avoid any confusion that might happen simply because we have defined things differently .

have you notice all those verse didn`t bring salvation or save anyone , but the verse 2 in Chapter 12 is proof that Jesus Christ is the one we should look unto as our author and finisher of our faith.

Well that's because Hebrews 11 is focusing on faith. It's talking about the obedient faith of those individuals.

I agree with you that Jesus is the author of our faith. Indeed we are told to believe in Him through the hearing of the word of Christ (Romans 10:17 ASV [some other translations say word of God]). We have the New Testament because in these last times God has spoken to us through His Son (Hebrews 1:2). The only reason we have the word of Christ by which to have faith is because Christ is the author of it and Christ has given it to us.

Does this much make sense? I don't suppose that we can move on much farther until we can agree on this. I think we will, but I just want to make sure .

Because you put water ritual in place of the blood of jesus and you make an outward work a salvation message.

Baptism is not a ritual, it's a command of God. I've outlined this all at the beginning of this post, but it bears repeating. The only reason that we are saved is because of God's infinite mercy and grace in that He sent His only Son to die as a propitiation for our sins. God then tells us how He wants us to respond in order to receive this wonderful gift.

no way believe this, and I completly disagree with you , because it is just an symbolic work of the real spiritual baptism that make you saved and put a person in the new born again life of Christ and not water.

If you are right, then there will be a verse in the Scriptures which plainly say that baptism is just a symbol. I can find no verse that says anything like that, but I can show you one that says baptism is for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16).

look at the heart for your salvation , and not water rituals

Oh I agree with you completely! Your heart does matter! And if you have a good heart and you believe in Christ, then you will do what God has said is necessary in order to receive the promise and become a child of God. Just because one believes does not excuse them from obedience. In fact if one does truly believe, then they will be obedient.

I look forward to hearing back from you, evangelist. I always enjoy getting to respond to your posts. You're very polite and sincere and it's obvious that you are only here because you care about other people. I really appreciate that

 

[evangelist]

When we are baptized we are connected to the death of Christ, we are buried with Him and then we are raised again to walk in a newness of life (Romans 6:4). Colossians 2:12 teaches us that we are "buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead." (NKJV)

are we not connected to Jesus when we repent by faith spiritually in our hearts??

Isn`t the born again spirit birth the ressurection in Christ???

Can we be buried with Jesus by faith ??

And we cannot be connected with any of it without being baptized into Christ. This is why baptism is necessary.

isn`t the baptism an outward work of what happens in the inside of us ??

But i teach the inside and the heart is what gives us eternal life, and the inside work of faith which is in believing.

God, through His grace and working through our faith, has decided that when we are baptized for the remission of our sins (as He has said in Acts 2:38) that He will hold true to His promise and forgive us of them. This is how we are saved by grace through faith

remission of sins is when we confess and repent with the heart spiritually by faith, so again how many times do we have remission of sins??

The Cross alone is what saves us and the blood of Jesus.
Ro:5:9: Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Ro:5:10: For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Ro:5:11: And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Ro:5:1: Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Ro:5:2: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

 

[aggie03]

are we not connected to Jesus when we repent by faith spiritually in our hearts??

Isn`t the born again spirit birth the ressurection in Christ???

Can we be buried with Jesus by faith ??

None of this is what the Scriptures teach, evagelist. Look through what I've posted again. Read the Scriptures. What do they say? Are we buried with Jesus when we believe? No. We are buried and raised again to a newness of life when we are baptized (Romans 6:4).

isn`t the baptism an outward work of what happens in the inside of us ??

No. Baptism is a command of God and is to be done for the remission of our sins (Acts 2:38).

But i teach the inside and the heart is what gives us eternal life, and the inside work of faith which is in believing.

If what you are teaching doesn't match what the sum of God's word teaches, then I would suggest that you're the one who needs to change, not God. I'm not trying to be rude, I promise , I just can't think of a more polite way to say it than that.

remission of sins is when we confess and repent with the heart spiritually by faith, so again how many times do we have remission of sins??

This is not what the Bible teaches. Acts 2:38 makes it pretty clear that baptism is for the remission of our sins. Also look up Acts 22:16.

The Cross alone is what saves us and the blood of Jesus.

One does not have a connection to the death of Christ without being baptized. This is what Romans 6 and Colossians 2 say. I would suggest that you go back through my last post and look up the passages that I've quoted. Then consider those in the context of the rest of the Bible.

It's very important that we remember to consider the sum of God's word, because the sum of God's word is Truth (Psalm 119:160).

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

it's the thread that never ends.... it goes on and on my friends.....

 

[HChristfirst]

In answering the question is baptism necessary for salvation. My answer is with a question. Is faithfulness necessary for salvation? God asks from those who do not know Christ when they learn of Him to faithful to what He asks in becomeing a part oh His body. Voluntary submission to what He asks in faith is faithfulness. When we volantarily repent of our sins in becomeing a christian or as a christian we are voluntarily submitting to Gods will in faith which becomes faithfulness. When we voluntarily confess Christ with our mouth in becomeing a christian and with our mouth and life as a christian we are submitting to Gods will in faith which is faithfulness. When we volantarily submit in faith to being baptized into Christ we are submitting to Gods will in faith which is faithfulness. It matters not who we are God wants and has always wanted submission to His will and what He asks. He wants volantary submission to Him it is never forced. Is baptism necessary yes it is is repentance necessary yes it is is belief necessary yes it is is confession necessary yes it is. Its about submitting to Gods will and what He asks. Submitting to what he asks voluntarily in faith and love.
hanks for reading. Keep searching the scriptures to see if these things are so God bless HChristfirst

 

[joshua_cheung]

In answering the question is baptism necessary for salvation. My answer is with a question. Is faithfulness necessary for salvation? God asks from those who do not know Christ when they learn of Him to faithful to what He asks in becomeing a part oh His body. Voluntary submission to what He asks in faith is faithfulness. When we volantarily repent of our sins in becomeing a christian or as a christian we are voluntarily submitting to Gods will in faith which becomes faithfulness. When we voluntarily confess Christ with our mouth in becomeing a christian and with our mouth and life as a christian we are submitting to Gods will in faith which is faithfulness. When we volantarily submit in faith to being baptized into Christ we are submitting to Gods will in faith which is faithfulness. It matters not who we are God wants and has always wanted submission to His will and what He asks. He wants volantary submission to Him it is never forced. Is baptism necessary yes it is is repentance necessary yes it is is belief necessary yes it is is confession necessary yes it is. Its about submitting to Gods will and what He asks. Submitting to what he asks voluntarily in faith and love.
hanks for reading. Keep searching the scriptures to see if these things are so God bless HChristfirst

I agree.

 

[joshua_cheung]

Yes, if you are not baptised you will burn in hell for all eternity.

Bummer.

You are angry. Right!! Calm down my friend.
Can we save without Baptism? If Jesus said yes, then we can save without baptism.

But do you repent our sin after following Christ.
What is the meaning of Baptism? For the repentence and remission of the sin. Right.
If we follow the teaching of apostles, we should be baptized in that meaning. So hurry up, if we repent, just follow the teaching, be baptized. Be submissive and humble.

Even baptism is not necessary to be saved (My assumption only), I still follow the teaching of the apostles. be qucik to be baptised and never wait to repent , for the remission of my sin. I don't want to empty the teaching of the apostles.

 

[HomeBound]

There is a baptism of the future:
- fire baptism (Mt. 3:11). This is hell fire. Read the next verse. Trust me, you don't want this baptism!

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Mat 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

we might not want it but more of us will have this BAPTISM than you know, and no, it's not a baptism into eternal hell fire.

Don't get it twisted. The very word baptism means to wash.

 

[PastorFreud]

I've studied the theory of the thief on the cross, and have concluded that Jesus pardoned him, and that I'm not going to question the actions of our Lord.

Yet you'll make doctrine around other texts. But this one is hands off? What kind of consistency is that?

My theory is that it was raining at the crucifixion. The thief was baptized by sprinkling. We all know that our God, the creator of the universe, the omnipotent ruler of the world, is picky about who is let into heaven. The water of baptism is much more important than, say for example, the condition of the heart.

Lucky me, I was baptized. Whew....

Should we baptize babies so that there is no chance of them dying before they get an opportunity?

 

[PastorFreud]

I had no idea the thread was this long. Better pay attention. I thought when I responded to something on page 6 that I was getting close enough to the end. I thought wrong.

 

[evolisamyth]

And how do you know that the theif died before Christ did? We only know that he was on a cross with our Lord...

besides... I'd really hate to see the guy that believed in Christ, but couldn't make it to a body of water in time before the Rapture... we are only called to believe in the One whom the Father has sent (John 6:29). Funny how He didn't include all these legalistic requirements as well. You want to be baptized as a public display of your belief... go ahead and do it and give glory to God! Don't wanna do it just because you don't feel like it? Man you're missing out... Christ also said "now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them" (John 13:17) But in the end :

Rom*11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Eph*2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God

You're right. The thief was NOT dead before Christ. The soldiers had to break his legs to speed the process along. They didn't have to break Christ's because he was already dead.

Good ref's by the way.

What about Acts 8:26-38? Specifically vs 37. All indications here are that believing on Christ comes BEFORE baptism.

Also Acts 18:8...belief came before baptism.

John 3:16 says, "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever BELIEVETH in him should not perish but have everlasting life." Note that it doesn't say "...believeth and is baptized..."

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Is baptism even mentioned here?)

Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. (No baptism here either.)

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the lord shall be saved. (...again, no baptism.)

Question: how do you get what you have?
1. Work (earn it)
2. Buy (pay for it)
3. Trade (swap for it)
4. Steal (take it unlawfully)
5. Gift (it's given)

1. Eph 2:8,9 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the GIFT of God, not of WORKS, lest any man should boast. (Eliminates getting salvation through 1. Work...including baptism.)
How about Titus 3:5a Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us,

Rom 6:23a For the wages of sin is death... (Can you raise yourself from the dead? Guess you can't pay the sin penalty on your own. Christ did it FOR you already! Eliminates 2. Buy.) Jn 3:16 ...he GAVE his only begotten son...

Is 64:6a But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; (guess there is nothing we have that God wants in trade for His righteousness. 3. Trade, down the drain.)

Need I even get into option 4? ...ok, I'll humor whomever wants to be...
Exodus 20:15 Shou shalt not steal.

5. GIFT! Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the GIFT OF GOD is eternal life THROUGH Jesus Christ our Lord. (It's a gift!!! Don't need to: join a church, get baptized, crouch down in a confessional, get baptized, give to the poor, get baptized, live a good life, get baptized, perform a miracle, get baptized, sell all you have... Just receive the gift! All the works are a result of being saved.)

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created IN Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
***We are save UNTO good works, not BY them. Remember who Ephesians was written to? The BELIEVERS at Ephesus AND all believers on Christ.
Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the SAINTS WHICH ARE AT EPHESUS, AND TO THE FAITHFUL IN CHRIST JESUS.

A work is something you do. Baptism is something you do, and therefore a work.

Also, look at the order in which things are done in Mat 28:18-20.
And Jesus came and spake unto them (the disciples), saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in hearth. {first}Go ye therefore, and teach (make disciples of) all nations (deciples are believers who follow), {next}baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost: {and then} Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
First: make them to believe on me
Next: baptize them in obedience to me
And then: teach them to do the WORK of the kingdom.

Great post, sbbqb7n16! Got me fired up.

GOD BLESS!!!!!

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

word Guys....

to people believe in vain 1 cor 15:2 which goes to 1 cor 15:17, Gal 2:21

these people are trying to add to salvation or take away from Christ work on the cross..


once one believes Romans 4:5 baptism happens from the Holy Spirit..1 cor 12:13, titus 3:5 and no one see this work from God John 6:29

 

[2GodBtheGlory]

Baptism a requirement of the Gospel and the obediance to the command of our God.
The Gospel
Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died(REPENTANCE< DEATH< DYING OF THE OLD NATURE) for our sins according to the scriptures;And that he was buried (BURIED WITH CHRIST< BAPTISM< REMISSION OF SIN, BURIAL), and that he rose again( RESURRECTION<HOLY GHOST<BORN AGAIN OF THE SPIRIT) the third day according to the scriptures:1 Corinthians 15:1-4

as you can see baptism is a vital part of the Gospel and must be obeyed, not only because it is a command but also because it saves us
1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

If we are to be in obediance to the scripture, then we must obey the Gospel. Our Lord is coming back for a people that is called by His name, and when we are baptised in the name of Jesus, we take on the name of Jesus.

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:2 thes. 1:8

To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. Acts 10:43


there will always be scoffers of the word, and those who claim to know God, but the bible says that many will claim to have known him, but he will say depart from me workers of iniquity, I believe many of these will be the ones who never had their sins remitted in baptism, because of the hardness of their hearts and their doctrines of men.

And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. Revelation 22:3-4

Take on His name today

 

[aggie03]

You're right. The thief was NOT dead before Christ. The soldiers had to break his legs to speed the process along. They didn't have to break Christ's because he was already dead.

Good ref's by the way.

Which covenant do you think that the theif was under? Had baptism in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins even been commanded yet when the theif died? These are important questions.

What about Acts 8:26-38? Specifically vs 37. All indications here are that believing on Christ comes BEFORE baptism.

I agree! Believing had better come before one is baptized, otherwise you cannot be baptized with faith in the working of God (Colossians 2:12). I think perhaps a misunderstanding we might have is that you seem to equate belief with salvation - I don't think this is what the Scriptures teach. If I am incorrect in my assumption, please correct me . Otherwise, I look forward to talking with you about this.

Also Acts 18:8...belief came before baptism.

Again, you are correct - one must believe before they are baptized.

John 3:16 says, "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever BELIEVETH in him should not perish but have everlasting life." Note that it doesn't say "...believeth and is baptized..."

I would suggest that you go back and read the entire 3rd chapter of the gospel according to John. In verse 5 Jesus refers to baptism. In verse 36 we learn that intrinsic within belief is obedience.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Is baptism even mentioned here?)

What about repentance? Do you think that repentance is necessary?

Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. (No baptism here either.)

No repentance there either.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the lord shall be saved. (...again, no baptism.)

Again...no repetance.

Question: how do you get what you have?
1. Work (earn it)
2. Buy (pay for it)
3. Trade (swap for it)
4. Steal (take it unlawfully)
5. Gift (it's given)

I understand the point that you're trying to make with these 5 points, but there's something that you've forgotten to consider concerning gifts. There are conditions to receiving those gifts. Salvation is a gift from God - it is something that we don't deserve, but that doesn't mean that there aren't any conditions place on our receiving that gift.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created IN Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
***We are save UNTO good works, not BY them. Remember who Ephesians was written to? The BELIEVERS at Ephesus AND all believers on Christ.
Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the SAINTS WHICH ARE AT EPHESUS, AND TO THE FAITHFUL IN CHRIST JESUS.

I agree that we aren't saved by works - we're saved by the grace and mercy of God - but that in no way negates the conditions that God places on the receiving of His grace. I would also like to make the point that baptism is no more a work than believing or repentance or making the good confession.

A work is something you do. Baptism is something you do, and therefore a work.

If we applied this logic consistently across the board, then believing is a work, it's something that you do after all. Repentance is also then a work because it's something that you have to do. This would also mean that making the good confession was a work. Is this what you believe?

I look forward to hearing back from you. Sorry that this is such a short post, but things have been pretty busy here today - it is not my intention to be short or rude. Hope you've been having a great day

 

[Philo]

I agree that we aren't saved by works - we're saved by the grace and mercy of God - but that in no way negates the conditions that God places on the receiving of His grace. I would also like to make the point that baptism is no more a work than believing or repentance or making the good confession.

Forgive me for sounding rather Calvinist here (nothing against our Calvinist brethren, of course), but belief is not a work. Belief is a state of being one falls into. If you are outside, and it starts raining, do you suddenly make the conscious decision to believe it's raining?

I would say no. The same can be said of the Gospel. You cannot compel yourself to believe the Gospel is true. It is true. I believe that. I believe it because when I heard the Gospel, God touched me in a way I never had experienced before. I couldn't deny it. I tried, of course. I think most people are resistant to the Gospel at first. It's so perfect that our little mortal minds have a hard time wrapping themselves around it.

Now, what you choose to do with your newfound belief is up to you. For those who don't believe the Gospel, they just go on like they had before. Those who do believe want more. They want what God has to offer. If they are honest, they repent because they realize that's what their loving Heavenly Father wants. They change their life, because changing their life is what they fundementally should do.

I knew this, and I think all Christians know this.

If you try and change your mind, you have an ulterior motive... Maybe the gospel scares you, maybe there is social pressure, maybe you are just disappointed with your life and are looking for a change. Reguardless, all of these motivations lead to a superficial change. You act different, you do different things, you live different, you go to church and give your ten percent. But, as Paul said, if you do all those things without having a sincere love for God in your heart already, they profit you not at all.

It's not your choice whether or not to believe. I think, on a fundemental level, that almost everyone believes the Gospel when they first hear it. It's so perfect, so flawless, that not believing it is a conscious decision. It's a rebellion of sorts, against what should be the most obvious and wonderful message you could ever hear: That there is a God who loves you and all He wants is you to love Him.

How far you let God change your life after you hear the Gospel is up to you. The Holy Spirit works in the willing. Paul says as much in I Corinthians:

"Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit. (1 Cor 12:3)"

I claim no credit in my salvation. That God allowed me to glimpse His glory through His Son is more than I could ever ask for. That God let His Son die for my sins is more than I could ever deserve. I was baptised because I love God enough to die to myself. I expected nothing in return.

I know you have an eager and honest heart. I eagerly await your response, and hope you pray for guidance from the Holy Spirit... Both for yourself and for me. I would never claim to have the best understanding of these matters of faith... But then again, it's not my understanding of matters of faith that is going to save me.

Happy Valentine's Day!

Philo

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

work is an action

belief is in ones mind

 

[evangelist]

yes baptism is a work and the way to be save for real is the easy way throgh grace and faith in christ alone.

we aresaved by grace not water.

God Bless