sbbqb7n16 said:
And how do you know that the theif died before Christ did? We only know that he was on a cross with our Lord...
besides... I'd really hate to see the guy that believed in Christ, but couldn't make it to a body of water in time before the Rapture... we are only called to believe in the One whom the Father has sent (John 6:29). Funny how He didn't include all these legalistic requirements as well. You want to be baptized as a public display of your belief... go ahead and do it and give glory to God! Don't wanna do it just because you don't feel like it? Man you're missing out... Christ also said "now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them" (John 13:17) But in the end :
Rom*11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
Eph*2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God
You're right. The thief was NOT dead before Christ. The soldiers had to break his legs to speed the process along. They didn't have to break Christ's because he was already dead.
Good ref's by the way.
What about Acts 8:26-38? Specifically vs 37. All indications here are that believing on Christ comes BEFORE baptism.
Also Acts 18:8...belief came before baptism.
John 3:16 says, "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever BELIEVETH in him should not perish but have everlasting life." Note that it doesn't say "...believeth and is baptized..."
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Is baptism even mentioned here?)
Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. (No baptism here either.)
Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the lord shall be saved. (...again, no baptism.)
Question: how do you get what you have?
1. Work (earn it)
2. Buy (pay for it)
3. Trade (swap for it)
4. Steal (take it unlawfully)
5. Gift (it's given)
1. Eph 2:8,9 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the GIFT of God, not of WORKS, lest any man should boast. (Eliminates getting salvation through 1. Work...including baptism.)
How about Titus 3:5a Not by
works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us,
Rom 6:23a For the wages of sin is death... (Can you raise yourself from the dead? Guess you can't pay the sin penalty on your own. Christ did it FOR you already! Eliminates 2. Buy.) Jn 3:16 ...he GAVE his only begotten son...
Is 64:6a But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as
filthy rags; (guess there is nothing we have that God wants in trade for His righteousness. 3. Trade, down the drain.)
Need I even get into option 4? ...ok, I'll humor whomever wants to be...
Exodus 20:15 Shou shalt not steal.
5. GIFT! Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the GIFT OF GOD is eternal life THROUGH Jesus Christ our Lord. (It's a gift!!! Don't need to: join a church, get baptized, crouch down in a confessional, get baptized, give to the poor, get baptized, live a good life, get baptized, perform a miracle, get baptized, sell all you have... Just receive the gift! All the works are a result of being saved.)
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship,
created IN Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
***We are save UNTO good works, not BY them. Remember who Ephesians was written to? The BELIEVERS at Ephesus AND all believers on Christ.
Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the SAINTS WHICH ARE AT EPHESUS, AND TO THE FAITHFUL IN CHRIST JESUS.
A work is something you do. Baptism is something you do, and therefore a work.
Also, look at the order in which things are done in Mat 28:18-20.
And Jesus came and spake unto them (the disciples), saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in hearth.
{first}Go ye therefore, and teach (make disciples of) all nations (deciples are believers who follow),
{next}baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost:
{and then} Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
First: make them to believe on me
Next: baptize them in obedience to me
And then: teach them to do the WORK of the kingdom.
Great post, sbbqb7n16! Got me fired up.
GOD BLESS!!!!!
