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Is baptism necessary to be saved?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by dldjr86, Aug 2, 2003.

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  1. dldjr86

    dldjr86 Just a Christian

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    I would just like to know what everyone thinks on this subject. Do you have to be baptized before you are saved? If not, where does salvation come? I already have my mind made up, and will let you know after I read your thoughts. Thanks.
     
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  2. Arnold_Philips

    Arnold_Philips what

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    Christian
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    US-Democrat
    I think it's unnecessary.
     
  3. wonder111

    wonder111 Love is the message!

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    Christian
    i know alot of people think its unnecessary because the thief that died on the cross was not baptized, and Jesus said they would be living in paradise together. I personally don't believe it's necessary. I feel it's symbolic of salvation but not salvation in itself
     
  4. LOVEequalsLXIX

    LOVEequalsLXIX New Member

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    baptism is commanded by god so it couldnt be all that unnecessary.
     
  5. fragmentsofdreams

    fragmentsofdreams Critical loyalist

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    Baptism is not strictly necessary. As the thief on the cross demonstrates, God will not be constrained by the circumstances of a person's life. For example, He would never say, "I really would like to save you, but you died in a car accident on your way to be baptized, which makes you unbaptized and sends you to eternal damnation because that is what the Rules say."
     
  6. Ruhama

    Ruhama 25 'הושע ב

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    hehe, good one fragments.

    I too agree that it is not necessary.
     
  7. prince didymus

    prince didymus Prince of Destiny

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    Like fragments said, if it was necessary then the thief on the cross (who obviously isn't a thief anymore) didn't get saved. And we know Jesus said that he would be with Him in paradise that very day.
     
  8. LOVEequalsLXIX

    LOVEequalsLXIX New Member

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    i dont think god is going to hold us to all these rules when jesus came to free us from the bondage of the law. its the condition of your heart to symbolically die to yourself and be raised with christ. that is the ultimate sign of humility.
    if you decide that you will be baptized then you have that condition of heart.
    i think that condition of the heart is necessary.
     
  9. LOVEequalsLXIX

    LOVEequalsLXIX New Member

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    btw, the thief on the cross was under the old dispensation, not the new dispensation.
     
  10. dldjr86

    dldjr86 Just a Christian

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    One thing I notice is that everyone goes back to the thief on the cross. Are there any more arguments besides that? And please, give scripture with every argument, not just your own opinion.
     
  11. stephen1964

    stephen1964 Regular Member

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    Anglican
    Married
    It seems to me that baptism is always mentioned as a consequence of receiving the holy spirit. It is an outward symbol of something that has already occured within a person's soul. Therefore I conclude that baptism is not necessary for salvation, but a natural response to God's grace and mercy.
     
  12. dldjr86

    dldjr86 Just a Christian

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    Stephen,

    I see no scripture to back up you claim. After I see what a few more people have to say, I will give my answer that comes from THE BIBLE. It won't be just my opinion.
     
  13. fragmentsofdreams

    fragmentsofdreams Critical loyalist

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    Catholic
    Quote Scripture indicating that the thief on the cross was under a different set of rules, just to be fair.
     
  14. dldjr86

    dldjr86 Just a Christian

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    The old law was nailed to the cross when Jesus died. Colossians 2:14 says that the ordiances that were against us (the Old Testament) was nailed to the cross. So, the thief was still under the old law. And, how do we know that the thief wasn't baptized? No scripture is given telling us whether he was or wasn't. Jesus saved many people during his lifetime, but they weren't baptized. Does that still mean that baptism is not essential for salvation?
     
  15. sbbqb7n16

    sbbqb7n16 Veteran - Blue Bible Dude

    +155
    Christian
    Single
    And how do you know that the theif died before Christ did? We only know that he was on a cross with our Lord...

    besides... I'd really hate to see the guy that believed in Christ, but couldn't make it to a body of water in time before the Rapture... we are only called to believe in the One whom the Father has sent (John 6:29). Funny how He didn't include all these legalistic requirements as well. You want to be baptized as a public display of your belief... go ahead and do it and give glory to God! Don't wanna do it just because you don't feel like it? Man you're missing out... Christ also said "now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them" (John 13:17) But in the end :

    Rom*11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

    Eph*2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God
     
  16. fragmentsofdreams

    fragmentsofdreams Critical loyalist

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    John 19:32 states that the two criminals were still alive when the soldiers came to break their legs while Jesus had already died.
     
  17. dldjr86

    dldjr86 Just a Christian

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    Thanks for the reply, fragments, you beat me too it.

    There are many places in the New Testament where we see that baptism was used to be saved.

    Acts 2:38 shows that the 3,000 present on the day of Pentecost first repent, then were baptized for the remission of there sins. It does not say that they repented and were saved, then baptized.

    Everyone thinks that Paul was saved before he was baptized, just because he was called "brother". That "brother" most likely showed that Ananias and Paul were from the same place. As Paul is retelling the story of when he was saved, he shows that Ananias asked him, "And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." (Acts 22:16). So, if baptism is not necessary, how are sins washed away? It definitely shows right here that it is necessary.

    Now, the conversion of the Ethiopian eunuch. The eunuch noticed the need and urgency of baptism. Phillip said that he needed to do something before he could be baptized. He had to make a confession that Jesus was the son of God. Nowhere does it say that the eunuch was saved before he was baptized. If it wasn't necessary, why did he have feel the urgency of baptism.

    Mark 16:16 shows another step in salvation. Belief has to come before baptism. And, this verse shows that baptism is necessary for salvation.

    So, we see all the steps to salvation:

    -Of course, you must hear the word, just as you just have. (Romans 10:17)
    -You must belief the word (Mark 16:16)
    -You must repent of your sins (Acts 2:38)
    -You must confess Jesus is the son of God (Acts 8:37)
    -You must be baptized, as we have discussed.
    -Then, you must remain faithful (Revelation 2:10)

    Is there anyone that agrees with me?
     
  18. RaptureTicketHolder

    RaptureTicketHolder Selectively Agreeable

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    Not quite.

    I think baptism is like the current day wedding ceremony. Are you married because you have walked down the isle in a white dress, or tux?

    It is something you do in following Christ's example and indeed a blessed and wonderful event.

    But, think of this the next time you tell someone BAPTISM IS A MUST - you just might cause them to NOT become Christian - here is why:

    Meet Joe Smoe.

    Joe enjoyed a long and full life. Joe had parents who did their best to teach Joe right from wrong acconding to the holy gosple of Christ. Joe had a wife who raised his kids in a loving and Christian home.

    Trouble was, Joe was missing something everyone else had. Christ. Yet, that knock at his door was not answered...until one night.

    Joe was driving home from a work party. It was foggy and one of his headlights was out. Joe was hit by a horse. Yes, a race horse that went mad.

    Anyway, Joe forgot to put on his seatbelt and went though the windsheild.

    Joe could hear the sirens as he lay cold on the pavement. As an aid worker set the brace for his neck, Joe noticed a cross about her neck. He tried to ask her about it, but shattered glass in he mouth got in the way. All he could do was point.

    The worker saw this and smiled said she lived for Christ. She told him it might be time for him to say a prayer or two.

    What she didnt know was that Joe's prayer on that last night of his life was not to get physically well, but to get spiritually well.

    Joe accepted Christ in his heart that night with no-one but GOD and himself knowing. In 58 years of life on earth, Joe had no greater joy than that 22 minutes of fading life he shared with the Lord.

    Now Joe is in heaven. No pomp, or special circumstance, just a quiet fading decision. Joe missed out on alot of wonderful chances with the Lord in doing things as the Lord had done, but Joe took on the best opportunity of all before it was too late.




    Do you want to keep someone from making a death bed decision to follow Christ because you have pumped them full of HAVE TO's and MUSTs - like baptism?

    At death, there is no time for such ceremony.

    Think about it.....
     
  19. dldjr86

    dldjr86 Just a Christian

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    I don't want to sound mean, but those who do not obey the will of God will face punishment (Phillipians 2:12, Hebrews 5:9, Romans 1:30, 2 Corinthians 10:6). Besides, we can't judge how God can handle things like that. We can just go by what we are told.
     
  20. RaptureTicketHolder

    RaptureTicketHolder Selectively Agreeable

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    Non-Denom
    Ahh depends on who is telling it.

    Im told the devil has tons of costumes......:)
     
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