Is baptism necessary to be saved?

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

To much stacked against baptism?????????Such as..... As far as i'm concerned there is nothing held against baptism and if there was......then well Jesus wasted his beath or lied one in verse Mark 16:16....and all thos people who became baptized wasted energy.....

amazing God does this according to 1cor 12:13

to every one that believe are then baptized into Christ

this is God's work john 6:29 not man's

water baptism is obiedience not for salvation

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

But you have not explained how Rom. 10:9-10, Jn 3:16, Eph. 2, and 1 Cor. 15 teach that baptism is unnecessary.

Rom. 10:9-10 mentions faith and confession, but you don't rule out repentance because it is not mentioned. Why rule out baptism?

repentance and confession are equal here .....

question is How does an ungodly man believe God?

John 6:29 this is God's work
why Romans 3:10-11 man can't believe God on his own
1 cor 2:10 spirit searcheth all things of God
Eph 1:4 Father hath chose us before the foundations of the world
Eph 2:4-9why one person over another..mercy and grace fromGod
eph 2:9 given faith to believe from H.S. Galation 5:22
Romans 5:8 when we where sinners Christ died for us.
1cor15:2-4 son die.. we can have ability to have God's kind of life
John 16:7-11 holy spirit calls us to believe that God did it all
John 16:13 Holy spirit guides us to the truth
Romans 4:5 no work and I believe counted righteous
1 cor 12:13 baptized into christ by the Spirit
Romans 8:29-30 once in Christ God perfects us over his time table

Jn. 3:16 we've discussed a little already, but you haven't answered my arguments. I pointed out that Jn. 3:16 doesn't mention repentance and confession, but you don't rule them out because they aren't mentioned in this verse. I also pointed you back to verse 5, to which you did not answer my arguments that the water cannot refer to actual birth but is a reference to baptism. Do you have an answer to my arguments why Jn. 3:5 cannot refer to actual birth?

bad wording here

born of water and of [even] the Spirit

ignore underlined part

Eph 4:4-6 only one baptism important in salvation
why this verse important shows that two verses condradictwhich is impossible

Eph. 2:8-9 does not mention repentance and confession, yet you don't rule them out because they aren't mentioned in the verse. I also pointed out that the Ephesians were bapatized (Ac. 19:5). You gave no answer.

Ephesians Acts 19:2 already believed then baptism in to Christ is a inheritance of being a son Gal 4:6-7

1 Cor. 15, debater has answered very well. Do you have a response?

So we've proven that these verses harmonize with the verses on baptism.[/QUOTE]

you are taking them out of context...sorry

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

**yawns** anyone else seeing this undieing circle?

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

Lets take a look at what the bible says his purpose was....
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Luke 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you no; but rather division.

Of what?............... division of sheep and goats

He sent his son into the Worls to SAVE us....He commanded them to make disciples in- Matthew 28:16-20:16 ¶Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

So we see here that God sent his disciples out to preach the gospel so that they might be saved..... He also Died on the Cross so that we might be saved under a more perfect rule......Son under this conclusion i will say he came to Save...and well i would think dieing on the cross and making disciples is apart of that same plan which is states in
John 3:17.

of

 

[heb12-2]

lol I am not gonna say anything, heb...

Why not?

 

[heb12-2]

**yawns** anyone else seeing this undieing circle?

We're going in circles 'cause you aren't dealing with what is presented.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

yeah yeah, it's my fault, thats right

 

[Florida College]

amazing God does this according to 1cor 12:13

to every one that believe are then baptized into Christ

this is God's work john 6:29 not man's

How do you determine that faith is God's work? I thought faith was a conviction that each of us have to decide for ourselves. If faith is God's work, and someone never develops faith, whose fault is it - - God's?

water baptism is obiedience not for salvation

The only way this could be true, is if baptism is not necessary for salvation. But according to Jesus it is (Mk.16:16). According to Peter (under inspiration of the same Holy Spirit that you claim to be baptized in) it is (Acts 2:38). According to Paul (also under inspiration of the Holy Spirit) it is (Acts 22:16).

I guess I'm just a little confused. Because if you have been baptized in the Holy Spirit, why is the Spirit causing you to disagree with the holy scriptures?

Brethren,

What you say that we do a little study on 1 Cor.12:13? You tell us what it means and then I'll offer some thoughts on the verse. Since you have been baptized in the Holy Spirit, your teaching should be as powerful as the apostles preaching on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2. After all, surely you wouldn't want to quench the Spirit (1 Thess.5:19).

FC

 

[Florida College]

Luke 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you no; but rather division.[/b]

Of what?............... division of sheep and goats

Brethren,

Just to point something out to you. The division that Jesus is speaking of is . . . well . . . not exactly like you try to explain it. Read Luke 12:51, and then continue reading through verse 53. No sheep and goats in that text. The dividing of the sheep and goats is in Matt. chapter 25. Totally different context. The passages don't go together at all like you try to connect them.

I fully realize that you'll think of me as the bad guy for pointing this out to you, but you need to see what happens when you try to piece thoughts together that don't fit. You end up with the wrong conclusion.

FC

of

 

[heb12-2]

yeah yeah, it's my fault, thats right

Well, I AM trying. Do you want to help me out?

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

lol

if someone is in a car accident, and they are injured, do you just stand there and yell at them for how stupid they were for getting into the wreck and what they should have done to not get in that wreck, not knowing the details of the wreck, or do you help them?

 

[Florida College]

lol

if someone is in a car accident, and they are injured, do you just stand there and yell at them for how stupid they were for getting into the wreck and what they should have done to not get in that wreck, not knowing the details of the wreck, or do you help them?

Actually, I am a medic. I would help them . . . if they give consent - - either informed or implied. If not, I can't legally touch them. I can try my best to convince them that they need further medical attention, but ultimately, that decision is theirs. The same is true of bible study. I haven't heard anyone here calling out for help - - just a lot of people denying that they need any. The great physician (Matt.9:12) is ready to help, but it has to be on his terms.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

I love you florida

We agree

hey, random question: Can a person who is not a medic legally try to help somoene?

 

[heb12-2]

look it up how they translated it from greek then

The translators of the KJV, NKJV, NASB all translate from Greek, but they do NOT translate Jn. 3:5 as saying the water is the spirit.

He teaches out a greek bible from orginal language.

So do the scholars of the translations above.

all men do have the ability to be wrong.... even by pastor

I agree and appreciate your honesty to admit it. So do you believe your teacher is wrong in this case? If you believe he is correct about "most bibles" translating Jn. 3:5 that way, then how many notable translations can you name that do? And why don't all the ones that I named translate it that way?

but so could all these other men so look it up in orginal langauge and how does one interpt the scripture literally or alagoraly

What point are you trying to make here?

but I can tell you do not like that translation but it is correct with other verses like eph 4:5 one baptism in salvation not two.....

I beleive Eph. 4:5. It teaches there there is now only ONE baptism. You are the one who has a problem with this verse because you teach that there is more than one baptism today. You say there is Holy Spirit baptism and water baptism today, but this verse says there is only one. If you beleive the one baptism of Eph. 4:5 is Holy Spirit baptism then why do you also still baptize in water? Even though you do not practice water baptism "for the remission of sins", you do still baptize in water, don't you? Why, if you beleive the One baptism of Eph. 4:5 is Holy Spirit baptism?

so if you do not like that translation deal with this verse in eph 4:5 and explain why only one baptism
one of them was mistranslated

Ok, I partly dealt with it above, but I'll give more in the next post.

No, the way the KJV, NKJV, NASB all translate Jn. 3:5 is in perfect harmony with the way they translate Eph. 4:5. Look for the next post.

 

[heb12-2]

lol

if someone is in a car accident, and they are injured, do you just stand there and yell at them for how stupid they were for getting into the wreck and what they should have done to not get in that wreck, not knowing the details of the wreck, or do you help them?

I don't understand the point you are making with this question. What does this have to do with baptism being necessary for salvation?

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

... read floridas post about the annallogy I gave.

 

[heb12-2]

heb,

Acts 8:35-39 Fits perfectly with Romans 10:9-10 and John 3:16, and Eph 2 and 1 cor 15]

I agree with that statement. Look at all the things that are mentioned just in the chapters that you mentioned:
Faith (Rom. 10:9-10; Jn. 3:16; Eph. 2:8-9; 1 Cor. 15:2)
Confession (Ac. 8:37; Rom. 10:9-10)
Baptism (Ac. 8:39; Jn. 3:5)

Also, note how Eph. 2 harmonizes with the Ephesians being baptized in Ac. 19:5. And note how 1 cor. 15 harmonizes with the Corinthians being baptized in 1 Cor. 12:13 and Ac. 18:8.

So yes, I agree, they fit perfectly.

I said this earlier, but we got caught off subject.

I honestly have done what you have asked, have been for this past 2 weeks.
I have also said this many times as well.... the greek and weight behind the baptism veres are all very questionable, where as the veres saying you "shall be saved" without mentioning baptism is not nearly as questionable if at all.

What "greek and weight" are you referring to that you believe is questionable? I haven't found any. Could you give me a sample?

What is questionable about these verses?

• Baptism "saves us." (1 Pet. 3:21)
• Baptism "for the remission of sins" (Ac. 2:38)
• baptism to "wash away thy sins" (ac. 22:16)
• Baptism to "put on Christ" (Gal. 3:27)
• Baptism to be "buried with Christ" (Col. 2:12; Rom. 6:3-4)
• Baptism to benefit from Christ's resurrection (Rom. 6:5)
• Baptism to be "crucified with him" (Rom. 6:6)

What's questionable about that? Sounds pretty clear to me.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

you can't take a hint can you, heb?

 

[heb12-2]

Ok, I said that this was going to be the next post, but I had a few in between there. Sorry.

“One Baptism” (Eph. 4:5)​

What is the “one baptism” of Eph. 4:5?
Eph. 4:5 says there is “one baptism”. What is this “one baptism”? Is it water baptism, or the baptism of the Holy Spirit? If there is now only “one baptism” and not two, then one of these ceased. Which baptism ceased, water baptism, or Holy Spirit baptism?

The “one baptism” of Eph. 4:5 is the one that still remains:
The great commission baptism (Matt. 28:19-20; Mk. 16:15-16) would last till “the end of the world”. Which baptism is it? Can we establish 2 things from Mt. 28:19-20 and Mk. 16:15-16?
The baptism of the great commission is the one:
(1) Jesus “commanded” (Mt. 28:19-20) and
(2) is for “salvation” (Mk. 16:16).

Now keep those 2 things in mind!

Water baptism is commanded; Holy Spirit baptism is NOT commanded:
Holy Spirit baptism was a promise, but never “commanded”! If it was, where is the passage? Jesus and the apostles commanded water baptism (Ac. 10:48; Jn. 3:5)

Water baptism is for salvation; Holy Spirit baptism is NOT for salvation:

Holy Spirit baptism was not given for the purpose of salvation! If it was, where is the passage?
If Cornelius was saved by Holy Spirit baptism, why was water baptism commanded? (Ac. 10:47-48). Baptism “in the name of the Lord” was for the remission of his sins (Ac. 2:38).
Water baptism is for salvation or remission of sins (Ac. 2:38; 22:16; Mk. 16:16;1 Pet. 3:20-21)

Water Baptism:

Passages specifically mentioning water: Jn. 3:5; 1 Pet. 3:20-21; Ac. 8:36,38; Eph. 5:26.

Holy Spirit Baptism:

The baptism of he Holy Spirit could only be administered by Christ (Mt. 3:11). As already noted, Holy Spirit baptism was not commanded and was not for the purpose of salvation.
It’s purpose was to:
(1) Reveal truth (Jn. 16:13; 14:26) and
(2) confirm truth (Mk. 16:20; Heb. 2:4)

2 Examples of Holy Spirit Baptism:

(1) The apostles in Ac.2

The purpose: to empower the apostles as "witnesses" (Ac. 1:8)
​

(2) The Gentiles in Ac. 10-11

The purpose: to show that "God also to the Gentiles granted repentance
unto life." (Ac. 11:18)
​

The purpose of Holy Spirit Baptism has been fulfilled!
Since it’s purpose has been fulfilled, completed, and not needed today, it has ceased.

Since water baptism is "for the remission of sins" and since people still need their sins remitted, then water baptism is still needed today!

Therefore, Water baptism remains and is the “one baptism” of Eph. 4:5!

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

You're truly going all out, aren't ya heb?