Formalism or not?

[ARBITER01]

These churches tend to almost indiscriminately invite all citizenry to attend, with the result being a mix of both "hot" and "cold." The more separatistic kind of churches I came to attend later were allegedly consisting mostly of pure believing, and practicing, Christians. They did not assume that all citizens who attend are, by definition, believing and practicing Christians.

There's a better closeness with GOD in that sort of atmosphere.

We want to have the sprinkling of the blood in the service, and the more non-born again types there are in the congregation the less that effect happens during the service.

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

We certainly know that Jesus entrusted vital, cardinal truths for the Church, to preserve its orthodoxy, by taking to himself 12 Disciples for a period of at least 3.5 years. This ensured they were all on the same page in transferring this information, correctly, to the future Church. This role of the original Apostles is unquestionably limited, leaving future offices to follow them, and not replace them, or improve on them.

They were the sources of Scriptural authority, therefore, which began a tradition of looking to them for authority from the very start. I can't say there was an essential line of succession, although it would make sense for the purpose of continuity, at least initially.

Once, leaders began to fail, however, there would have to be a change in succession. If the church itself began to fail, then the whole process of continuity would be disrupted, and reformers would be needed.

24 I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church, 25 of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God which was given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God, 26 the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. 27 To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. 28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus. 29 To this end I also labor, striving according to His working which works in me mightily. (Col 1:24–29)​

In his letter to the Colossians, Paul speaks of a mystery which God had kept "hidden from ages and from generations" until Paul's time. But in Paul's time, God chose to "reveal" that mystery "to His saints". God wanted those people to know more than just the mystery. He wanted them to know "the riches of the glory of the mystery".

What is that mystery? And what is the rich glory of the mystery? The mystery that had been kept hidden and is now revealed is that Christ Jesus has taken up residence in the hearts of mankind. The unfathomable richness of this mystery's glory is in the identity of the person who lives in our hearts. He is the one who "delivered us from the power of darkness" (Col 1:13). He is the one who transferred us into the kingdom of God (Col 1:13). He is the one in whom we have redemption and the forgiveness of sins (Col 1:14). He is the image of the invisible God (Col 1:14). He is the creator of everything that was created and He created everything for Himself (Col 1:16). "He is before all things, and in Him all things consist" (Col 1:17). He is the body's head (i.e., He is the leader of the church) (Col 1:18). He has preemenence over everything (Col 1:18). All the fullness of God dwells in Him (Col 1:19). He Himself alone, with no help from anyone, reconciled "all things to Himself... havingng made peace through the blood of His cross" (Col 1:20). This Person has literally come to live inside our hearts.

Why bring this up in this thread? Because we are in an age now that many many Christians/churches/denominations have forgotten the mystery and the rich glories of Jesus living in our hearts. We are rarely taught and rarely attain to "all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the knowledge of the mystery of God" (Col 2:2). And even though "all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge" are hidden in Him (Col 2:3), We are rarely advised how we must cling to the God who lives in our hearts. One of the strangest things I've ever heard is some churches teach that He does not personally interract with us any more. How then should we cling to Him. We are in danger of being deceived "with persuasive words" (Col 2:4), and we should heed Paul's warnings...

8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power. (Col 2:8–10)​

It doen't matter so much how we got here. We need to focus on where we are, from where we have fallen, and how to get back. To figure it out, we need to go to the leader/commander/Lord who lives in our hearts.

 

[RandyPNW]

24 I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church, 25 of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God which was given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God, 26 the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. 27 To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. 28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus. 29 To this end I also labor, striving according to His working which works in me mightily. (Col 1:24–29)​

In his letter to the Colossians, Paul speaks of a mystery which God had kept "hidden from ages and from generations" until Paul's time. But in Paul's time, God chose to "reveal" that mystery "to His saints". God wanted those people to know more than just the mystery. He wanted them to know "the riches of the glory of the mystery".

What is that mystery? And what is the rich glory of the mystery? The mystery that had been kept hidden and is now revealed is that Christ Jesus has taken up residence in the hearts of mankind. The unfathomable richness of this mystery's glory is in the identity of the person who lives in our hearts. He is the one who "delivered us from the power of darkness" (Col 1:13). He is the one who transferred us into the kingdom of God (Col 1:13). He is the one in whom we have redemption and the forgiveness of sins (Col 1:14). He is the image of the invisible God (Col 1:14). He is the creator of everything that was created and He created everything for Himself (Col 1:16). "He is before all things, and in Him all things consist" (Col 1:17). He is the body's head (i.e., He is the leader of the church) (Col 1:18). He has preemenence over everything (Col 1:18). All the fullness of God dwells in Him (Col 1:19). He Himself alone, with no help from anyone, reconciled "all things to Himself... havingng made peace through the blood of His cross" (Col 1:20). This Person has literally come to live inside our hearts.

Why bring this up in this thread? Because we are in an age now that many many Christians/churches/denominations have forgotten the mystery and the rich glories of Jesus living in our hearts. We are rarely taught and rarely attain to "all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the knowledge of the mystery of God" (Col 2:2). And even though "all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge" are hidden in Him (Col 2:3), We are rarely advised how we must cling to the God who lives in our hearts. One of the strangest things I've ever heard is some churches teach that He does not personally interract with us any more. How then should we cling to Him. We are in danger of being deceived "with persuasive words" (Col 2:4), and we should heed Paul's warnings...

8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power. (Col 2:8–10)​

It doen't matter so much how we got here. We need to focus on where we are, from where we have fallen, and how to get back. To figure it out, we need to go to the leader/commander/Lord who lives in our hearts.

Beautifully said! I don't see all individual churches wandering adrift from the "Commander" but I get your drift. We are in an age of compromise with tremendous pressure to focus on the peripherals rather than on the central issue, which you've well described as "Christ," and "Christ in us." Thank you for some really good words. Hopefully many take it to heart?

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

Beautifully said! I don't see all individual churches wandering adrift from the "Commander" but I get your drift. We are in an age of compromise with tremendous pressure to focus on the peripherals rather than on the central issue, which you've well described as "Christ," and "Christ in us." Thank you for some really good words. Hopefully many take it to heart?

Thanks. I hope what I wrote is taken positively and points people in the right direction whether they're in a Christ-centered church or not. I agree with you that the form is not as important as the focus.

 

[Lukaris]

We certainly know that Jesus entrusted vital, cardinal truths for the Church, to preserve its orthodoxy, by taking to himself 12 Disciples for a period of at least 3.5 years. This ensured they were all on the same page in transferring this information, correctly, to the future Church. This role of the original Apostles is unquestionably limited, leaving future offices to follow them, and not replace them, or improve on them.

They were the sources of Scriptural authority, therefore, which began a tradition of looking to them for authority from the very start. I can't say there was an essential line of succession, although it would make sense for the purpose of continuity, at least initially.

Once, leaders began to fail, however, there would have to be a change in succession. If the church itself began to fail, then the whole process of continuity would be disrupted, and reformers would be needed.

We certainly know that Jesus entrusted vital, cardinal truths for the Church, to preserve its orthodoxy, by taking to himself 12 Disciples for a period of at least 3.5 years. This ensured they were all on the same page in transferring this information, correctly, to the future Church. This role of the original Apostles is unquestionably limited, leaving future offices to follow them, and not replace them, or improve on them.

They were the sources of Scriptural authority, therefore, which began a tradition of looking to them for authority from the very start. I can't say there was an essential line of succession, although it would make sense for the purpose of continuity, at least initially.

Once, leaders began to fail, however, there would have to be a change in succession. If the church itself began to fail, then the whole process of continuity would be disrupted, and reformers would be needed.

While I will defend the apostolic succession of Orthodoxy ( & Catholicism to a point) our fallen nature affects the collective faith of all Christian communions. I believe the Spirit works among us in different places where He knows the Gospel of Jesus Christ is proclaimed. Much of Romans 8 & John 16 comes to mind for me here.

We must not be divisive, but we must discern and not grieve the Holy Spirit of God ( Ephesians 4:30, all of Ephesians 4 for the matter). So, for ex., if many Moslems are finding Jesus Christ in 7th Day Adventism, despite doctrinal differences with Orthodoxy, I should be able to realize salvation has come to many houses that remain faithful ( Colossians 1:10-23). The same situation should apply to a 7th Day Adventist who might observe Moslems receiving Jesus Christ in Orthodoxy.

Hope this makes sense.