Is aionion necessarily coequal in duration with aionion (in Mt.25:46)?

FineLinen

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And you who add words to the Scriptures are wrong again!

My friend: The text does not support your addition of "repents"!

https://www.biblestudytools.com/mark/9-49-compare.html

We await your chosen Translation, and wait and wait!

"From Him the all comes, through Him the all exists and in Him the all ends..."

After you have addressed your addition of words to the text you can answer the following question>>>>>>>

Question

What are the defining statements of the Master for "everlasting punishment" according to the context of St. Matt. 25? They would be>>>>>>
 
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he-man

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And you who add words to the Scriptures are wrong again!

My friend: The text does not support your addition of "repents"!

https://www.biblestudytools.com/mark/9-49-compare.html

We await your chosen Translation, and wait and wait!

"From Him the all comes, through Him the all exists and in Him the all ends..."
Matthew 5:13 it is thenceforth good for nothing
Luke 14:34.; James 3:12; Hebrews 12:17
 
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ClementofA

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Sorry dude, wrong again:
Matthew 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
Luke 11:7 And he from within shall answer and say, Trouble me not: the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give thee.
Luke 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and should lock the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

None of those verses say anyone will "never" be saved.

So there is a proper time to seek an entrance into heaven; but there will be a time when it will be too late. At death the time will have passed by, and God will be no longer gracious to the sinner’s soul. [BARNES] and hath shut to the door; the door of mercy and of hope; the door of faith; the preaching of the word, and the administration of ordinances, when these shall be no more: [GILL]

These commentaries are saying things that are not said in Luke 13:25. The verse says nothing about "mercy...shall be no more". Is the mercy of God the Eternal Love Omnipotent only temporary, not everlasting?

Now His last effort in grace was accomplished, and their house left desolate, until they should repent, and, returning to the Lord, say according to Psalm 111, "Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord." Then He would appear, and they should see Him. [DARBY]

Until they repent. That doesn't sounds like mercy is temporary. Nor does this from the same chapter:

Luke 13:35
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

The Pharisees He was speaking to will say "Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord." Compare Phil.2:9-11; Isa.45:21-25; Rev.5:13.


John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

See above re the Pharisees - they will "see" Jesus. And every eye (Rev.1:7) will see Him:

"Look, he is coming with the clouds," and "every eye will see him, even those who pierced him"; and all peoples on earth "will mourn because of him." So shall it be! Amen.

Jesus also said the disciples would see Him no more:

John 16:16
In a little while you will see Me no more, and then after a little while you will see Me.”

Paul said to his brothers in Christ they would see him "no more" (Acts 20:25). The two English words "no more" are a translation of the same Greek word, OUKETI, used in the above 2 passages in John. It means "not longer" or "not still".
http://biblehub.com/greek/3765.htm


Revelation 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

New American Standard Bible
'I gave her time to repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality.

God sends His word calling people to repent. He gives them time to repent. When they don't listen to His word, then He punishes them so that they will repent. Nothing in Rev.2:21 is opposed to the eventual salvation of every human being who ever lived. One has to imagine it and add it to the words of the Sacred Scriptures to arrive at such a conclusion. Which is clearly what this poster is doing in many instances.

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/for-the-lord-will-not-cast-off-for-ever.8041512/
 
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FineLinen

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Matthew 5:13 it is thenceforth good for nothing
Luke 14:34.; James 3:12; Hebrews 12:17

You can jump around he-man but you cannot hide! You have added words to the text which is a no-no! Every one is salted with fire! You, like most of those who desire to punish endlessly with no objective in view, only endless punishment is your viewpoint. Again.....

After you have addressed your addition of words to the text you can answer the following question>>>>>>>

Question

What are the defining statements of the Master for "everlasting punishment" according to the context of St. Matt. 25? They would be>>>>>>
 
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FineLinen

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You can jump around he-man but you cannot hide! You have added words to the text which is a no-no! Every one is salted with fire! You, like most of those who desire to punish endlessly with no objective in view, only endless punishment is your viewpoint. Again.....
 
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he-man

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You can jump around he-man but you cannot hide! You have added words to the text which is a no-no! Every one is salted with fire! You, like most of those who desire to punish endlessly with no objective in view, only endless punishment is your viewpoint. Again.....
2Th 1:9  who shall pay the penalty of everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his might, [DARBY]
 
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he-man

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None of those verses say anyone will "never" be saved.
Heb_12:16  lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one meal sold his birthright;

Luke 13:24  Strive with earnestness to enter in through the narrow door, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter in and will not be able. 

Heb 6:4  For it is impossible to renew again to repentance those once enlightened, and who have tasted of the heavenly gift, and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 

5  and have tasted the good word of God, and the works of power of the age to come, 

6  and have fallen away, crucifying for themselves as they do the Son of God, and making a show of him . 

8  but bringing forth thorns and briars, it is found worthless and nigh to a curse, whose end is to be burned. 
Luke 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, open to us; and he shall answer and say to you, I know you not whence ye are;

Revelation 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.


2Th 1:9  who shall pay the penalty of everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his might, 


Act_17:30  And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:



Act_3:19  Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Oba_1:18  And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble; and they shall kindle in them and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau: for Jehovah hath spoken it .
 
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FineLinen

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FineLinen

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"Everlasting Destruction"=

In order to understand this phrase we must first look closely at the root words on which the English is based. We should start with “everlasting” which is the Greek word aionios (Strong’s number 166). I refer you to Hope Beyond Hell Chapter one and its accompanying notes, which you will find in the Third Edition only. It will be available soon as a free download. We hope to release it in September 2012. Email me for updates on its release.

Also we need to look at the Greek word for “destruction”

which is olethros (Strong’s number 3639). For this I refer you to Dr. Marvin Vincent D.D. Balwin Professor of Sacred Literature, Union Theological Seminary New York published in 1887. Here is his quote from Volume IV, in Word Studies in the New Testament pages 58 – 62. He expounds on olethron aionion in 2Th. 1:9:

‘Aion, transliterated aeon, is a period of longer or shorter duration, having a beginning and an end, and complete in itself. Aristotle (peri ouravou, i. 9,15) says: “The period which includes the whole time of one’s life is called the aeon of each one.”

Hence it often means the life of a man, as in Homer, where one’s life (aion) is said to leave him or to consume away (Iliad v. 685; Odyssey v. 160). It is not, however, limited to human life; it signifies any period in the course of events, as the period or age before Christ; the period of the millenium; the mythological period before the beginnings of history. The word has not “a stationary and mechanical value” (De Quincey). It does not mean a period of a fixed length for all cases. There are as many aeons as entities, the respective durations of which are fixed by the normal conditions of the several entities. There is one aeon of a human life, another of the life of a nation, another of a crow’s life, another of an oak’s life. The length of the aeon depends on the subject to which it is attached.

It is sometimes translated world; world represents a period or a series of periods of time.

See Matt 12:32; 13:40,49; Luke 1:70; 1 Cor 1:20; 2:6; Eph 1:21. Similarly oi aiones, the worlds, the universe, the aggregate of the ages or periods, and their contents which are included in the duration of the world. 1 Cor 2:7; 10:11; Heb 1:2; 9:26; 11:3. The word always carries the notion of time, and not of eternity. It always means a period of time. Otherwise it would be impossible to account for the plural, or for such qualifying expressions as this age, or the age to come. It does not mean something endless or everlasting. To deduce that meaning from its relation to aei is absurd; for, apart from the fact that the meaning of a word is not definitely fixed by its derivation, aei does not signify endless duration. When the writer of the Pastoral Epistles quotes the saying that the Cretans are always (aei) liars (Tit. 1:12), he surely does not mean that the Cretans will go on lying to all eternity. See also Acts 7:51; 2 Cor. 4:11; 6:10; Heb 3:10; 1 Pet. 3:15. Aei means habitually or continually within the limit of the subject’s life. In our colloquial dialect everlastingly is used in the same way. “The boy is everlastingly tormenting me to buy him a drum.”

In the New Testament the history of the world is conceived as developed through a succession of aeons.

A series of such aeons precedes the introduction of a new series inaugurated by the Christian dispensation, and the end of the world and the second coming of Christ are to mark the beginning of another series. Eph. 1:21; 2:7; 3:9,21; 1 Cor 10:11; compare Heb. 9:26. He includes the series of aeons in one great aeon, ‘o aion ton aionon, the aeon of the aeons (Eph. 3:21); and the author of the Epistle to the Hebrews describe the throne of God as enduring unto the aeon of the aeons (Heb 1:8). The plural is also used, aeons of the aeons, signifying all the successive periods which make up the sum total of the ages collectively. Rom. 16:27; Gal. 1:5; Philip. 4:20, etc. This plural phrase is applied by Paul to God only.

Continued Below

http://www.hopebeyondhell.net/faq-17-what-does-“everlasting-destruction”-mean-2thes-19/
 
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FineLinen

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2Th 1:9  who shall pay the penalty of everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his might, [DARBY]
You forgot Mr. add words to the sacred Canon "he-man", what are the reasons for "everlasting punishment" according to the Master in Matt. 25. They would be?>>>>>>

Do not hesitate he-man, just tell us plainly!
 
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Pneuma3

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2Th 1:9  who shall pay the penalty of everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his might, [DARBY]

he-man are you aware that you are laughing and mocking God and teaching others to laugh and mock God? For you are saying God started something and He is unable to finish what He started.



For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it? 29Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him, 30Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.





Did God sit down and count the cost for the salvation of the world?



After He laid the foundation, Jesus Christ, for that salvation is He unable to finish what He started?



According to those who believe in eternal torment and annihilation He is unable.



Eternal torment and annihilation are mocking God, saying He began to build, and was not able to finish.
 
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FineLinen

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he-man are you aware that you are laughing and mocking God and teaching others to laugh and mock God? For you are saying God started something and He is unable to finish what He started.



For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it? 29Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him, 30Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.





Did God sit down and count the cost for the salvation of the world?



After He laid the foundation, Jesus Christ, for that salvation is He unable to finish what He started?



According to those who believe in eternal torment and annihilation He is unable.



Eternal torment and annihilation are mocking God, saying He began to build, and was not able to finish.

My friend: while he-man stands laughing, he needs to be aware of the fact nobody comes to repentance on his own arrogant terms but "is granted" repentance by/from the Lord! There is a tone of "look what I have done" shrouding this he-man!

"From Him the all comes, through Him the all exists, and in Him the all ends..."
 
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he-man

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he-man are you aware that you are laughing and mocking God and teaching others to laugh and mock God? For you are saying God started something and He is unable to finish what He started.
Eternal torment and annihilation are mocking God, saying He began to build, and was not able to finish.
Psalms_2:4  He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
G622 ἀπόλλυμι apollumi ap-ol'-loo-mee From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.

άπόλλυμι for its conj. s. 131-D. § 101, ρ. 47; Rob. 317; fut. άπoλέσω Hs 8, 7, 5, Att. άπολώ 1 Cοr 1:19 (Ιs 29:14); 1 aοr. άπώλεσα; 1 pf. άπ-oλώλεκα; fut. mid. άπολουμαι Lk 13: 3; 2 aοr. άπωλόμην; the 2 pf. άπόλωλα serves as a ρf. mid., ρtc. άπολωλώς (Ηοm. + ; inscr., pap., LΧΧ, Εn., Philο, Joseph., Test. 12 Pαtr.).

1. act.—a. ruin, destroy.
α. οf pers. (Sir 10: 3) Mk 1: 24; Lk 4: 34. W. ref. to eternal destruction μή έκείνον άπόλλνε do not bring about his ruin Rο 14: 15. Esp. kill, put to death (Gen 20: 4; Εsth 9: 6 ν.1.; 1 Μαcc 2: 37; Jos.,C. Αρ. 1, 122) Hs 9, 26, 7. παιδίoν Μt 2: 13; Ηs 9, 23, 4. Of eternal death (Ηerm. Wr. 4, 7) Αbs. οf a people perish J 11: 50. Of individuals (Lev 23: 30) Αc 5: 37; 2 Pt 3: 9; 1 Cl 12: 6; 39: 5 (Job 4: 20).—Esp. οf eternal death (cf. Ps 9: 6f [5f]; 36[37]: 20; 67: 3[68: 2]; 91: 10[92: 9]; Is 41: 11) J 3: 16; 17: 12. άπολέσθαι εiς τδν αίώνα perish forever 10: 28 (Bar 3: 3 ήμεiς άπoλλύμενοι τόν αίώνα). άνόμως ά. Rο 2: 12; μωρώς ά. ΙΕρh 17:
BAG A Greek English Lexicon fourth edition (of Bauer's Wόrterbuch)

In Mark 9:49 Jesus says "For everyone will be salted with fire" (interestingly, in Greek this sentence has the grammatical structure of an obvious statement of fact, similar to "for [everyone knows that] everyone will be salted with fire"). Peter repeats this idea in 2 Peter 3:7 "but now, by the same Word [that is Jesus], heaven and earth are saved and kept for fire on the day of judgment, and the destruction of impious men

What penalty will suffer, everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his strength,
2 Thessalonicher 1:9 (Elberfelder 1905 (German))

Death, eternal
2Th 1:9 Who shall pay a penalty [G1349 δικην] of everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

The necessary consequence of sin
Romans 6:16 Romans 6:21 ; 8:13 ; James 1:15

The wages of sin
Romans 6:23

The portion of the wicked
Matthew 25:41 Matthew 25:46 ; Romans 1:32

God alone can inflict
Matthew 10:28 ; James 4:12

IS DESCRIBED AS Banishment from God 2 Thessalonians 1:9 Outer darkness Matthew 25:30
A mist of darkness for ever 2 Peter 2:17 Indignation, wrath, Romans 2:8 Romans 2:9

IS CALLED Destruction Romans 9:22 ; 2 Thessalonians 1:9; Perishing 2 Peter 2:12; The wrath to come 1 Thessalonians 1:10; The second death Revelation 2:11; A resurrection to judgment
John 5:29; A resurrection to shame & contempt Daniel 12:2; Everlasting penalty Matthew 25:46

Shall be inflicted by Christ Matthew 25:31 Matthew 25:41 ; 2 Thessalonians 1:7 2 Thessalonians 1:8 Christ, the only way of escape from John 3:16 ; 8:51 ; Acts 4:12 Saints shall escape
Revelation 2:11 ; 20:6
Luke 16:23-26
Torrey, R.A., Reverand. "Entry for 'Death, eternal'". "The New Topical Text Book"

that by the God of this world the supreme Being is meant, who in his judgment gave over the minds of the unbelieving Jews to spiritual darkness, so that destruction came upon them to the uttermost
it simply implying the present state of things, governed by the Divine providence, in contradistinction from the eternal state: and it is very remarkable that, in 1 Timothy 1:17, God himself is calledτω δε βασιλει των αιωνων, the King of the WORLD; what we call King eternal; but here it evidently means him who governs both worlds, and rules in time and eternity.

Some, and particularly the ancient fathers, have connected and have read the verse: But God hath blinded the minds of the unbelievers of this world, Theophylact, and Augustine, all plead for the above meaning; and St. Augustine says that it was the opinion of almost all the ancients
The Adam Clarke Commentary
http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/view.cgi?book=2co&chapter=004

Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall pay a penalty of everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Psalms 21:8 Thine hand shall find out all thine enemies: thy right hand shall find out those that hate thee.
9 Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the LORD shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them.
10 Their fruit shalt thou destroy from the earth, and their seed from among the children of men.

Mat 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the repository; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Psalms 21:9 Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the LORD shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them.
10 Their fruit shalt thou destroy from the earth, and their seed from among the children of men.
Num 16:35 And there came out a fire from the LORD, and consumed the two hundred and fifty men that offered incense.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
 
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FineLinen

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Our God is a consuming Fire

Fire Is A Beneficent Agent


How shallow is the common view of "fire" as only or chiefly a penal agent. Fire, in Scripture, is the element of....

"Life"....Isa. 4:5

"Purification"....Matt. 3:3

"Atonement"....Lev. 16:27

"Transformation".....2 Pet. 3:10

And never ever of preservation alive for purposes of anguish.

And the popular view selects precisely this latter use, never found in Scripture, and represents it as the sole end of God's fiery judgments! If we take either the teaching of Scripture or of nature, we see that the dominant conception of fire is of a beneficent agent. Nature tells us that fire is a necessary condition of life; its mission is to sustain life; and to purify, even when it dissolves.

Extinguish the stores of fire in the universe, and you extinguish all being; universal death reigns. Most strikingly is this connection of fire and life shown in the facts of nutrition. For we actually burn in order to live; our food is the fuel; our bodies are furnaces; our nutrition is a process of combustion; we are, in fact, "aflame to the very tips of our fingers." And so it is that round the fireside of life and work gather: when we think of home we speak of the family hearth.

Fire Is The Sign Of God's Being

And what Nature teaches, Scripture enforces in no doubtful tone. It is significant to find the Great Source of life constantly associated with fire in the Bible.

Fire is the sign, not of God's wrath, but of His being.

When God comes to Ezekiel there is a "fire unfolding itself" (Ezek. 1:4, 27) and "the appearance of fire." (Ezek. 8:2)

Christ's eyes are a flame of "fire" (Rev. 1:14).

The seven lamps of "fire" are the seven Spirits of God (Rev. 4:5). So a fiery stream is said "to go before God," His throne is fiery flame, its wheels are burning fire (Daniel 7:9,10). His eyes are lamps of fire (Dan. 10:6); He is a wall of fire (Zeph. 2:5). At His touch the mountains smoke (Psl. 104:32). And God's ministers are a flame of fire (Psl. 104:4...Heb. 1:7). It is not meant to deny that the Divine Fire chastises and destroys.

Purification, Not Ruin Is The Final Outcome

It is meant that purification, not ruin, is the final outcome of that fire from above, which consumes--call it, if you please, a paradox--in order that it may save. For if God is Love, then by what but by love can His fires be kindled? They are, in fact, the very flame of love; and so we have the key to the words, "Thy God is a consuming Fire," and "Thy God is a merciful God" (Deut. 4:24-31). So God devours the earth with fire, in order that finally all may call upon the name of the Lord (Zeph. 3:8,9)--words full of significance.

So Isaiah tells us of God's cleansing the daughters of Zion by the spirit of burning (Isa. 4:4)--suggestive words. And, so again, "By fire will the Lord plead with all flesh." (Isa. 66:16) And Christ coming to save, comes to purify by "fire." (Mal. 3:2).

Fire A Sign Of Favourable Response?

Let us note, also, how often "fire" is the sign of a favourable answer from God; when God appears to Moses at the Bush it is in "fire:" God answers Gideon by "fire;" and David by "fire." (1 Chron. 21:26) Again, when He answers Elijah on Carmel, it is by "fire;" and in "fire" Elijah himself ascends to God. So God sends to Elisha, for aid, chariots and horses of "fire." So when the Psalmist calls, God answers by "fire." (Psl. 18:6-8)

And by the pillar of "fire" God gave His law. And in "fire" the great gift of the Holy Ghost descends at Pentecost."

Fire Is The Portion Of All

These words bring us to the New Testament. There we find that "fire," like judgment, so far from being the sinner's portion ONLY, is the portion of all. Like God's judgment again, it is not future merely, but present; it is "already kindled," always kindled: its object is not torment, but cleansing. The proof comes from the lips of our Lord Himself. "I am come to send fire on the earth," for it is certain that He came as a Saviour. Thus, coming to save, Christ comes with fire, nay, with fire already kindled. He comes to baptize with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.

Therefore, it is that Christ teaches in solemn passage (usually misunderstood, Mark 9:43) that everyone shall be salted with fire. And so the "fire is to try every man's work." He whose work fails is saved (mark the word saved), not damned "so as by fire," by consuming what is evil, saves and refines.

The antient tradition that represents Christ as saying, "He that is near Me is near fire," expresses a vital truth. So Malachi, describes Christ as being in His saving work "like a refiner's fire." And so, echoing Deut 4:24-31, we are told that "our God is a consuming Fire," i.e., God in His closest relation to us; God is Love; God is Spirit: but "Our God is a consuming Fire"--a consuming Fire, "by which the whole material substance of sin is destroyed."

When, then, we read (Psl. 18:12) that "coals of fire" go before God, we think of the deeds of love which are "coals of fire" to our enemies. (Rom. 12:20) Thus, we who teach hope for all men, do not shrink from but accept, in their fullest meaning, these mysterious "fires" of gehenna, of which Christ speaks (kindled for purification), as in a special sense the sinner's doom in the coming ages. But taught by the clearest statements of Scripture (confirmed as they are by many analogies of Nature), we see in these "fires" not a denial of, but a mode of fulfilling, the promise--

"Behold, I make all things new."

-Christ Triumphant-
 
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Our God is a consuming Fire-
Psalms 2:4  He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
G622 ἀπόλλυμι apollumi ap-ol'-loo-mee From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.

άπόλλυμι for its conj. s. 131-D. § 101, ρ. 47; Rob. 317; fut. άπoλέσω Hs 8, 7, 5, Att. άπολώ 1 Cοr 1:19 (Ιs 29:14); 1 aοr. άπώλεσα; 1 pf. άπ-oλώλεκα; fut. mid. άπολουμαι Lk 13: 3; 2 aοr. άπωλόμην; the 2 pf. άπόλωλα serves as a ρf. mid., ρtc. άπολωλώς (Ηοm. + ; inscr., pap., LΧΧ, Εn., Philο, Joseph., Test. 12 Pαtr.).

1. act.—a. ruin, destroy.
α. οf pers. (Sir 10: 3) Mk 1: 24; Lk 4: 34. W. ref. to eternal destruction μή έκείνον άπόλλνε do not bring about his ruin Rο 14: 15. Esp. kill, put to death (Gen 20: 4; Εsth 9: 6 ν.1.; 1 Μαcc 2: 37; Jos.,C. Αρ. 1, 122) Hs 9, 26, 7. παιδίoν Μt 2: 13; Ηs 9, 23, 4. Of eternal death (Ηerm. Wr. 4, 7) Αbs. οf a people perish J 11: 50. Of individuals (Lev 23: 30) Αc 5: 37; 2 Pt 3: 9; 1 Cl 12: 6; 39: 5 (
Job 4: 20).—Esp. οf eternal death (cf. Ps 9: 6f [5f]; 36[37]: 20; 67: 3[68: 2]; 91: 10[92: 9]; Is 41: 11) J 3: 16; 17: 12. άπολέσθαι εiς τδν αίώνα perish forever 10: 28 (Bar 3: 3 ήμεiς άπoλλύμενοι τόν αίώνα). άνόμως ά. Rο 2: 12; μωρώς ά. ΙΕρh 17:
BAG A Greek English Lexicon fourth edition (of Bauer's Wόrterbuch)

In
Mark 9:49 Jesus says "For everyone will be salted with fire" (interestingly, in Greek this sentence has the grammatical structure of an obvious statement of fact, similar to "for [everyone knows that] everyone will be salted with fire"). Peter repeats this idea in 2 Peter 3:7 "but now, by the same Word [that is Jesus], heaven and earth are saved and kept for fire on the day of judgment, and the destruction of impious men

What penalty will suffer, everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his strength,
2 Thessalonicher 1:9 (Elberfelder 1905 (German))

Death, eternal
2Th 1:9 Who shall pay a penalty [G1349 δικην] of everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

The necessary consequence of sin

Romans 6:16 Romans 6:21 ; 8:13 ; James 1:15

The wages of sin
Romans 6:23

The portion of the wicked
Matthew 25:41 Matthew 25:46 ; Romans 1:32

God alone can inflict
Matthew 10:28 ; James 4:12

IS DESCRIBED AS Banishment from God 2 Thessalonians 1:9 Outer darkness Matthew 25:30
A mist of darkness for ever 2 Peter 2:17 Indignation, wrath, Romans 2:8 Romans 2:9

IS CALLED Destruction Romans 9:22 ; 2 Thessalonians 1:9; Perishing 2 Peter 2:12; The wrath to come 1 Thessalonians 1:10; The second death Revelation 2:11; A resurrection to judgment
John 5:29; A resurrection to shame & contempt Daniel 12:2; Everlasting penalty Matthew 25:46

Shall be inflicted by Christ Matthew 25:31 Matthew 25:41 ; 2 Thessalonians 1:7 2 Thessalonians 1:8 Christ, the only way of escape from John 3:16 ; 8:51 ; Acts 4:12 Saints shall escape
Revelation 2:11 ; 20:6
Luke 16:23-26
Torrey, R.A., Reverand. "Entry for 'Death, eternal'". "The New Topical Text Book"

that by the God of this world the supreme Being is meant, who in his judgment gave over the minds of the unbelieving Jews to spiritual darkness, so that destruction came upon them to the uttermost
it simply implying the present state of things, governed by the Divine providence, in contradistinction from the eternal state: and it is very remarkable that, in
1 Timothy 1:17, God himself is calledτω δε βασιλει των αιωνων, the King of the WORLD; what we call King eternal; but here it evidently means him who governs both worlds, and rules in time and eternity.

Some, and particularly the ancient fathers, have connected and have read the verse: But God hath blinded the minds of the unbelievers of this world, Theophylact, and Augustine, all plead for the above meaning; and St. Augustine says that it was the opinion of almost all the ancients
The Adam Clarke Commentary

http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/view.cgi?book=2co&chapter=004

Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when
the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall pay a penalty of everlasting destruction
from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Psalms 21:8 Thine hand shall find out all thine enemies: thy right hand shall find out those that hate thee.
9 Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the LORD shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them.
10 Their fruit shalt thou destroy from the earth, and their seed from among the children of men.

Mat 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the repository; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Psalms 21:9 Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the LORD shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them.
10 Their fruit shalt thou destroy from the earth, and their seed from among the children of men.
Num 16:35 And there came out a fire from the LORD, and consumed the two hundred and fifty men that offered incense.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
 
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DamianWarS

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As for Matthew 25:46, allegedly universalism can be harmonized, as per the remarks below, with any of at least three different views re the "life" & "punishment" of that verse: (1) both life and punishment are eternal or everlasting, (2) both are finite, (3) life is eternal, punishment is finite.



Maybe. Maybe not. Either way universalism is Bible truth & "eternal" is a deceptive translation.

Is aionios used "differently" in each of its two occurrences in Rom.16:25-26? Is the aionios God (Rom.16:26) of the same duration as "long ages" (Rom.16:25, NIV, NASB, ESV, NET, WEY, YLT, etc) during which a revelation was kept secret (v.25) but is "now revealed" (v.26a)? Why, then, is it assumed aionios life must be of the same duration as aionios punishment (Mt.25:46)?

Is a tall building the same height as a tall blade of grass? No. Why, then, is it assumed aionios life must be of the same duration as aionios punishment (Mt.25:46)? In the sentence "The blessed stay in a tall high rise, but the wicked in a tall dungeon", is the high rise equally as tall as the dungeon?

Just as the adjective tall varies with what it refers to, so also the adjective aionion (eonian) varies with what it refers to. A tall man is not the same size as a tall tree or highrise or mountain. Likewise:

"So of aiónion; applied to Jonah's residence in the fish, it means seventy hours; to the priesthood of Aaron, it signifies several centuries; to the mountains, thousands of years; to the punishments of a merciful God, as long as is necessary to vindicate his law and reform his children; to God himself, eternity." AIN -- AINIOS

Similarly, a long life need not be of the same duration as a long punishment. A perpetual life is not necessarily of the same duration as a perpetual punishment.

Is the aion of an ant of the same duration as the aion of a tree?

"There are as many eons as entities, the respective durations of which are fixed by the normal conditions of the several entities. There is one eon of a human life, another of the life of a nation, another of a crow’s life, another of an oak’s life. The length of the eon depends on the subject to which it is attached." (WORD STUDIES IN THE NEW TESTAMENT by MARVIN R. VINCENT, D.D." https://www.hopefaithprayer.com/books/Word-Studies-in-the-New-Testament-Vol-3&4-Marvin-R-Vincent.pdf

Is the church age eon of the same duration as the internet age eon? Is the eon of a geological age of the same duration as the millennial eon? If not, then why should eonian in Mt.25:46 have to be of the same duration in reference to punishment & life?

If believers go into the life aionios (i.e. pertaining to the age to come) & unbelievers go into the punishment aionios (i.e. pertaining to the age to come), does that prove that the punishment must absolutely be co-extensive with the life? No. Does it prove that the age to come is not finite? No.

Could both occurrences of aionios in Mt.25:46 refer to a finite age (or ages) to come? Yes.

If aionios is of equal duration in both occurrences of Mt.25:46, shouldn't "all mankind" (Rom.5:18), "the many" (Rom.5:19) and "all" (1 Cor.15:22, 28) be co-extensive in number in these passages:

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."
Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."

1 Cor.15:22 AS in Adam ALL die - so also - in Christ shall ALL be made alive.
1 Cor.15:28 And when ALL shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in ALL.

"Augustine raised the argument that since aionios in Mt. 25:46 referred to both life and punishment, it had to carry the same duration in both cases. However, he failed to consider that the duration of aionios is determined by the subject to which it refers. For example, when aionios referred to the duration of Jonah’s entrapment in the fish, it was limited to three days. To a slave, aionios referred to his life span. To the Aaronic priesthood, it referred to the generation preceding the Melchizedek priesthood. To Solomon’s temple, it referred to 400 years. To God it encompasses and transcends time altogether."

"Thus, the word cannot have a set value. It is a relative term and its duration depends upon that with which it is associated. It is similar to what “tall” is to height. The size of a tall building can be 300 feet, a tall man six feet, and a tall dog three feet...An adjective relates to the noun it modifies."
Eternity in the Bible by Gerry Beauchemin – Hope Beyond Hell
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

"...It is simply contrary to historical fact to suggest that the essence of these time expressions is that of endless duration. As Thomas De Quincey, the nineteenth century essayist and literary critic states: “All this speculation, first and last, is pure nonsense. Aiõnios does not mean ‘eternal,’ neither does it mean of limited duration . . . . What is an aiõn? The duration or cycle of existence which belongs to any object, not individually of itself, but universally, in right of its genius [i.e., inherent nature] . . . . The exact amount of the duration expressed by an aiõn depends altogether upon the particular subject which yields the aiõn.” " Eon As Indefinte Duration, Part Three

Philosophy professor Tom Talbott, author of "The Inescapable Love of God", remarked:

"Whatever its correct translation, “aionios” is clearly an adjective and must therefore function like an adjective, and it is the very nature of an adjective for its meaning to vary, sometimes greatly, depending upon which noun it qualifies. For more often than not, the noun helps to determine the precise force of the adjective. As an illustration, set aside the Greek word “aionios” for a moment and consider the English word “everlasting.” I think it safe to say that the basic meaning of this English word is indeed everlasting. So now consider how the precise force of “everlasting” varies depending upon which noun it qualifies. An everlasting struggle would no doubt be a struggle without end, an unending temporal process that never comes to a point of resolution and never gets completed. But an everlasting change, or an everlasting correction, or an everlasting transformation would hardly be an unending temporal process that never gets completed; instead, it would be a temporal process of limited duration, or perhaps simply an instantaneous event, that terminates in an irreversible state. So however popular it might be, the argument that “aionios” must have exactly the same force regardless of which noun it qualifies in Matthew 25:46 is clearly fallacious."

"Accordingly, even if we should translate “aionios” with the English word “everlasting,” a lot would still depend upon how we understand the relevant nouns in our text: the nouns “life” (zoe) and “punishment” (kolasis). Now the kind of life in question, being rightly related to God, is clearly an end in itself, even as the kind of punishment in question seems just as clearly to be a means to an end. For as one New Testament scholar, William Barclay, has pointed out, “kolasis” “was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better.” Barclay also claimed that “in all Greek secular literature kolasis is never used of anything but remedial punishment”–which is probably a bit of a stretch, since the language of correction and the language of retribution often get mixed together in ordinary language. But in any event, if “kolasis” does signify punishment of a remedial or a corrective kind, as I think it does in Matthew 25:46, then we can reasonably think of such punishment as everlasting in the sense that its corrective effects literally endure forever. Or, to put it another way: An everlasting correction, whenever successfully completed, would be a temporal process of limited duration that terminates in the irreversible state of being rightly related to God. Certainly nothing in the context of Matthew 25 excludes such an interpretation."

"This would not be my preferred interpretation, however, because the English word “everlasting” does not accurately capture the special religious meaning that “aionios” typically has in the New Testament."

Talbott on Matthew 25:41, 46?

https://www.amazon.com/Inescapable-...498222412/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_pdt_img_top?ie=UTF8

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

Mat 25:46 is an interesting verse because it contrasts both punishment and life using this adjective. So in context if we are to say that the aionios-punishment is only temporal than should not aionios-life also be looked at as temporal?
 
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FineLinen

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Mat 25:46 is an interesting verse because it contrasts both punishment and life using this adjective. So in context if we are to say that the aionios-punishment is only temporal than should not aionios-life also be looked at as temporal?

Absolutely not! The adjective is equal on both sides. Since he-man refuses to answer, why don't you tell us what the qualifications for aionial punishment are in the context of St. Matthew 25. They are?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Aionios life and aionial punishment are strictly related to ages. Now, if you would care to discuss Aidios life you will be in another dimension altogether!
 
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FineLinen

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Absolutely not! The adjective is equal on both sides. Since he-man refuses to answer, why don't you tell us what the qualifications for aionial punishment are in the context of St. Matthew 25. They are?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Aionios life and aionial punishment are strictly related to ages. Now, if you would care to discuss Aidios life you will be in another dimension altogether!

The Sheep & The Goats

http://jonathanmitchellnewtestament.com/jonathan-s-writings/the-sheep-and-the-goats/

It seems to us that since Jesus is speaking in terms of sheep and kids (i.e., IMMATURE goats), that the words "herds" or "multitudes" may be more appropriate for this passage. All along, up to this point in these sayings, He has been referring to His people, His household. A kid was a clean animal and could be used in a sacrifice. He was not severing the sheep from the dogs or the swine. He was separating the sheep away from the kids. This is something habitually done; and again, both groups are clean animals, were used in sacrifices, and are a part of the Shepherd's herd. We submit that this gathering is the same assembling spoken of in ch. 24:31. If you insist on the word being translated "nations," then I suggest a word of clarity be added and it read, "gathered [from] all the nations." This sense seems consistent to the entire passage.

Further, it would seem from the picture being drawn that since the "Shepherd" is severing one species from another, that it is evident that both up to this point have been a part of His herd. Jesus is here using this figure to once again show that when He is coming He makes a distinction and a decision: such as between the wise and the stupid, or between the faithful and the useless, as we just discussed, above.

This is a time of reward for good, or the suffering of loss. A.E. Knoch has well pointed out the absence of “believing” as being an ingredient in this figure. All that is discussed is good works, or the absence thereof. The parable is not about “eternal salvation,” but about a judgment upon the Jewish leadership, and upon the Jewish Zealots who rebelled against Rome in A.D. 66. Cf Josephus, Wars of the Jews. It is also about Christ’s sheep (His followers) receiving “the Father's promise (or: the promise pertaining to, and from, the Father; or, as a genitive of apposition: the promise which is the Father)” (Acts 1:4).
 
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Oba_1:18  And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble; and they shall kindle in them and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau: for Jehovah hath spoken it .


That verse says nothing about anyone being annihilated forever in the lake of fire. It's speaking about something of this life & world, not eschatological consequences:

"The punishment here denounced against Edom is quite distinct from that earlier punishment, of which the nations are summoned to be the instruments (Obadiah 1:1-2). It is that final destruction, which they suffered at the hands of Jews only, first of Judas Maccabæus, and then, in their total extermination, of John Hyrcanus."

http://biblehub.com/commentaries/obadiah/1-18.htm

Young's Literal Translation
And the house of Jacob hath been a fire, And the house of Joseph a flame, And the house of Esau for stubble, And they have burned among them, And they have consumed them, And there is not a remnant to the house of Esau, For Jehovah hath spoken.

New American Standard Bible
"Then the house of Jacob will be a fire And the house of Joseph a flame; But the house of Esau will be as stubble. And they will set them on fire and consume them, So that there will be no survivor of the house of Esau," For the LORD has spoken.
 
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