Iraqi Dead May Total 600,000

[ScottBot]

I don't think that's been proven.

In fact, if the only evidence I had before me was that study and the words of some message-board posters (who, I presume, never did a study themselves) I'd have to lean towards believing the study.

But it's all irrelevent to me anyway.

"600,000" wasn't killed. 600,000 is just a concept, a string of symbols, a six followed by a couple zeros, followed by a comma, followed by a few zeros.

Human beings were killed. Babies, children, men and women, were killed in a senseless, needless war. Dreams were shattered. Parents continue to grieve the loss of their children. Children are orphaned.

How many? More than our mind can comprehend. It really doesn't matter. 10,000. 60,000. 600,000. A billion trillion zillion. It's just a number. It means nothing. You can't kill a number. But you can shatter lives, countless dreams, countless hopes, countless loves, countless joys, countless possibilities, countless precious human beings made in the image of the Creator who loves them.

What means something is the lives, the people. They were killed, because Bush wanted to profit the big-wigs at Haliburton, so he lied to the American people about WMDs.

Charlie

How many died in WWII? Was that pointless? I mean they were babies, and women, and men who just wanted to have fun with their families. But that deceiver FDR got us mixed up in that brutal conflict and millions of people died needlessly.

 

[ScottBot]

Islam is not a violent religion. The Koran does not advocate violence anymore than the Bible does.

Time for you to put your money where your mouth is. There are millions of muslims living in the united states. Show me sources of them rioting, decapitating hostages, and killing Americans.

Also, worldwide there are over a billion muslims. What percentage of that population is violent. Cite numbers and sources.

Sure, as soon as you provide the same data for the Christian population.

 

[Charlie V]

Sooooo, now Reagan is responsible?

Lets just make the broad declaration,

The Republican Party is responsible for all of the death and misery in the world!

Happy?

Certainly not.

I never blamed the Republican Party for all the death and the misery in the world.

But Reagan is to blame for the death and misery Reagan caused, and Bush and his cronies are to blame for the death and misery they caused. I call 'em as I see 'em.

Charlie

 

[Sphere]

Sure, as soon as you provide the same data for the Christian population.

Wrong. I never made the assertion that Christians are violent, nor that Christianity is a violent religion. All I said was that both religious texts have violence in them.

You made the claim that Islam is a violent religion. Let's see some sources proving your assertion. How many of the millions of American Muslims are rioting in the streets. How many are kidnapping americans and decapitating them. How many of them are blowing themselves up. How many of the GLOBAL muslim population is violent. Cite numbers and sources. Do not dodge this question again, it's very straight forward in response to your ridiculous assertion. If you made that empty assertion based out of personal bigotry, then admit it.

But until that happens, you made the claim, now prove it.

 

[ScottBot]

Certainly not.

I never blamed the Republican Party for all the death and the misery in the world.

But Reagan is to blame for the death and misery Reagan caused, and Bush and his cronies are to blame for the death and misery they caused. I call 'em as I see 'em.

Charlie

Good, call 'em as you see 'em with the failings of Clinton, Carter, FDR, Nixon, Teddy Roosevelt, Washington, Lincoln. There all guilty of something.

 

[ScottBot]

Wrong. I never made the assertion that Christians are violent, nor that Christianity is a violent religion. All I said was that both religious texts have violence in them.

You made the claim that Islam is a violent religion. Let's see some sources proving your assertion. How many of the millions of American Muslims are rioting in the streets. How many are kidnapping americans and decapitating them. How many of them are blowing themselves up. How many of the GLOBAL muslim population is violent. Cite numbers and sources.

You made the claim, now prove it.

I never made the claim that all Muslims are violent. I only made the assertion that the religion of Islam contains precepts that allow for violence.

 

[Charlie V]

How many died in WWII? Was that pointless? I mean they were babies, and women, and men who just wanted to have fun with their families. But that deceiver FDR got us mixed up in that brutal conflict and millions of people died needlessly.

World War II, of course, could have been avoided if the world behaved differently at the end of World War I. But that's besides the point.

World War II, of course, was a very different situation.

If anything, the comparison would be, if Japan bombed Pearl Harbor (analogy: Saudi Arabians from Afghanistan-based Al Queda attack New York and Washington) and so Franklin Roosevelt attacked Canada (analogy: Iraq.)

Iraq was nothing like WW2 Japan, and nothing like WW2 Germany.
The analogy just doesn't work.

Nobody would call World War 2 a pre-emptive invasion of an innocent, soverign country, but the war in Iraq is exactly that.

Charlie

 

[Charlie V]

Good, call 'em as you see 'em with the failings of Clinton, Carter, FDR, Nixon, Teddy Roosevelt, Washington, Lincoln. There all guilty of something.

Yes.

But not what Bush is guilty of.

Charlie

 

[Sphere]

I never made the claim that all Muslims are violent. I only made the assertion that the religion of Islam contains precepts that allow for violence.

You said that Islam advocates violence. Now that we have established that you are incapable of supplying any numbers or sources for your claims, im sure you won't make them again. Otherwise that would mean you are lying. Remember that.

 

[ScottBot]

Yes.

But not what Bush is guilty of.

Charlie

Of course not.

 

[ScottBot]

You said that Islam advocates violence. Now that we have established that you are incapable of supplying any numbers or sources for your claims, im sure you won't make them again. Otherwise that would mean you are lying. Remember that.

I don't have to produce numbers to prove that there are precepts in the Kuran and in Islam that advocate for violence. All I have to do is show the suras and other Islamic teachings that prove it, and prove that Mohammed himself was a violent man and my case is closed.

 

[Sphere]

I don't have to produce numbers to prove that there are precepts in the Kuran and in Islam that advocate for violence. All I have to do is show the suras and other Islamic teachings that prove it, and prove that Mohammed himself was a violent man and my case is closed.

Absolutely you do. Your claim of "Islam advocates violence" goes right out the window when you are incapable of showing sources of it the majority of it's members being violent. You haven't shown anything, because you're unable to. Your case is closed because aside from personal bias and perhaps a little bigotry, there is nothing of substance behind your claim. I just wanted to make sure that everyone else saw that you couldn't back up your claims. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[ScottBot]

Absolutely you do. Your claim of "Islam advocates violence" goes right out the window when you are incapable of showing sources of it the majority of it's members being violent. You haven't shown anything, because you're unable to. Your case is closed because aside from personal bias and perhaps a little bigotry, there is nothing of substance behind your claim. I just wanted to make sure that everyone else saw that you couldn't back up your claims. Thanks for proving my point.

Whatever you say chief. All any reasonable person has to do is look at the world situation and know that I'm right on this one.

 

[Charlie V]

I don't have to produce numbers to prove that there are precepts in the Kuran and in Islam that advocate for violence. All I have to do is show the suras and other Islamic teachings that prove it, and prove that Mohammed himself was a violent man and my case is closed.

Certain anti-Christians challenging the Christian faith on these boards do that all the time with the Bible to prove that Christians are violent terrorists.

"I came not to bring peace, but a sword."

And don't get me started on the Amelekites.

Charlie

 

[Charlie V]

Whatever you say chief. All any reasonable person has to do is look at the world situation and know that I'm right on this one.

Any reasonable person who looks at the world situation would realize that 19%, just below one-fifth of the world's population, is a follower of Islam, and the vast majority of them are not violent.

In fact, I'm a reasonable person who can look at a Muslim man I know who lives down the street and see that he's not violent.

I'm a reasonable person who used to drive every day in a Muslim neighborhood in Jersey City, and would have no fear to park my car and go shopping in one of the stores in that area, and would see smiles on faces that are no less friendly than the Christian faces or the Jewish faces or the Atheist faces I see.

These people aren't violent -- and they're just as patriotic Americans as any other American I know.

Charlie

 

[Sphere]

Whatever you say chief. All any reasonable person has to do is look at the world situation and know that I'm right on this one.

You're wrong. Your claims of "islam advocates violence" would be like me saying "christianity advocates violence". Common sense indicates otherwise. You haven't shown anything besides your own persona bias and bigotry towards islam and muslims.

 

[Charlie V]

In fact.. if what you're proposing is that Muslims are violent and that's why we're in Iraq.. are you proposing that they need to be exterminated (or converted) to protect non-Muslims?

Are you saying the Shia and the Kurds and the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]es are all our enemy in Iraq, because they're Muslim?

So you're not for free elections in Iraq, but instead, for extermination in Iraq, unless we can convert them all to Christianity? Is that what "winning the war" in Iraq means to you? Because I've not heard clear answers to what the goal of the war in Iraq is.

Charlie

 

[Charlie V]

You're wrong. Your claims of "islam advocates violence" would be like me saying "christianity advocates violence". Common sense indicates otherwise. You haven't shown anything besides your own persona bias and bigotry towards islam and muslims.

You're right, Halruaa. I find what he's saying, not only to be wrong, but to be reprehensible.

Charlie

 

[Scribbler]

Ok, so if I go over there I will find our government and those who elect them? Thats who I fault. I fault our government and our populace in general. Just as I did when Rwanda happened. Clinton says Rwanda was his biggest failing as president. I agree.

I never blamed Christian humanitarian groups for Sudan. I said that or nation turns a blind eye.

I'm sorry, a blind eye?????

In Break With U.N., Bush Calls Sudan Killings Genocide
President Condemns Atrocities In Sudan
Why Sudan Has Become A Bush Priority
Bush Pushes Sudan To Accept UN Troops
Bush Pushes For Peace Talks In Sudan
High Ranking US Diplomat Heads for Sudan Seeking Peace in Darfur
Bush sends Powell To Sudan
Denouncing 'genocide' in Darfur, Bush envoy rushes to Sudan
US Congress calls for intervention in Sudan
Bush Calls for UN Force To Enter Sudan, Stop Genocide

Bush has come out stronger against the situation in Sudan than any other leader. The UN can't even bring itself to call it genocide. What does Bush get for his troubles? He gets blamed for Sudan, of course. By none other than Jimmy Carter, no less. Maybe Jimmy can do for Sudan what he did for North Korea.

And why are your "White Christian" groups failing so miserably? Is it because you can't get support from the nation as a whole? Or from our government? Why does the genocide continue?

Because if a large ethnic group wants to slaughter their poor, unarmed neighbors, there's really little that can be done without a large-scale involvement. Bush, if you read the links above, is pushing hard for just that. Where he get that idea????

Meanwhile, the French, who have significant oil dealings there, have spoken out against sanctions, and denied any genocide.

Apparently, according to you, all of the Christians over here are busting butt to stop it.

I said nothing of the kind. I said Christians (paired with prominent Black leaders) led the charge. Which They Did.
Don't misquote me or intentionally misinterpret my posts, and I'll extend to you the same courtesy.

 

[dlamberth]

Whatever you say chief. All any reasonable person has to do is look at the world situation and know that I'm right on this one.

Step back a few hundred years and look at Christianity and tell me what you see...a lot of violence. Step back another few hundred year and what do you see...yet more violence. Keep stepping back in time and you will see yet more Christian violence. Keep stepping back to the very first Christian Roman Emperor and what do you see...yet more violence.

Using your logic than, am I to assume that any reasonable person looking at Christian history should know that it is a violent religion?

.