Intimacy

[elephunky]

Cos i know it in my heart to be true, I have felt God in my life.

 

[one11]

Cos i know it in my heart to be true, I have felt God in my life.

Me too, but my God lines up with scripture or he shows me His meaning of the scripture and then I understand and I feel myself growing and growing closer to Him in His splendor. The splendor of Him never ceases.

How have you felt God in your life?

 

[Nadiine]

I guess I would ask why do you believe any of it at all?

exactly... if the writers are liars & full of error; making stuff up &
completely wrong about God, why even accept any of it from them?
I sure wouldn't - in fact it's becuz the writers of other religious books are
full of error & falsity that I reject all the other religions.
& I'd also say someone is a fool for accepting such writers in a spiritual context.

I guess we pick & choose according to our CURRENT wisdom.
I'd note that many people do not have common sense, many
do not have wisdom or proper education or maturity & are making their assumptions based on these flawed and corrupted (thru sin) faculties.

Should anyone feel comfortable placing their soul on faulty writers????

Well, it looks like the OP is wise enough to create her own
customized/personalized belief system - so I see little point in continuing
on this subject becuz her truth & morality are merely relative.

Until God is properly identified & acknowledged, there's no point to go further becuz everything is based on self truths. (feelings, opinions)
All this boils down to is human willpower.

The real issue isn't the sin, but the relationship one carries with the
True Saviour... not sinning isn't getting anyone INTO heaven.
A TRUE relationship with Christ on His terms is. & His terms are
spelled out in that Bible.
(the bible people have made into swiss cheese
to suit their personal desires & self will).

How does one know the Lord yet deny His very Word?

 

[No Swansong]

Cos i know it in my heart to be true, I have felt God in my life.

So you know because....you know. Sounds like emotion to me.

 

[Nadiine]

So you know because....you know. Sounds like emotion to me.

(pagans & Mormons feel it too)

so which God is it giving all these people these same
feelings?

 

[one11]

exactly... if the writers are liars & full of error; making stuff up &
completely wrong about God, why even accept any of it from them?
I sure wouldn't - in fact it's becuz the writers of other religious books are
full of error & falsity that I reject all the other religions.
& I'd also say someone is a fool for accepting such writers in a spiritual context.

I guess we pick & choose according to our CURRENT wisdom.
I'd note that many people do not have common sense, many
do not have wisdom or proper education or maturity & are making their assumptions based on these flawed and corrupted (thru sin) faculties.

Should anyone feel comfortable placing their soul on faulty writers????

Well, it looks like the OP is wise enough to create her own
customized/personalized belief system - so I see little point in continuing
on this subject becuz her truth & morality are merely relative.

Until God is properly identified & acknowledged, there's no point to go further becuz everything is based on self truths. (feelings, opinions)
All this boils down to is human willpower.

The real issue isn't the sin, but the relationship one carries with the
True Saviour... not sinning isn't getting anyone INTO heaven.
A TRUE relationship with Christ on His terms is. & His terms are
spelled out in that Bible.
(the bible people have made into swiss cheese
to suit their personal desires & self will).

How does one know the Lord yet deny His very Word?

It's interesting that I woke up this morning with this very thought.

A lot of people are reading biased websites or the church of the wikipedia. The wikipedia is about 50% right and has some interesting points but the wikipedia also has so many errors that getting 50% of the information is like a phone call where one would only hear 50% of what someone was saying. Therefore, it wouldn't be clear what they were trying to communicate. Or it would be like getting a telegram with half blocked out and not legeble. How could one understand then what the telegram was saying if half were blotted out?

 

[Archivist]

A TRUE relationship with Christ on His terms is. & His terms are spelled out in that Bible. (the bible people have made into swiss cheese to suit their personal desires & self will).

Except that we all interpret scripture differently. My interpretation is no more or less valid than your interpretation.

 

[one11]

Except that we all interpret scripture differently. My interpretation is no more or less valid than your interpretation.

I disagree that we ALL interpret scripture differently. The main points the churches may disagree are not in regards to sin, but transubstantiation, consubstantiation, or communion as a remembrance, Mary's assumption and veneration, praying through the RCC Saints rather than through Jesus, and apostolic succession, as well as the apocrypha. So these are matter of faith in how one worships and prays and receives Christ, but the main churches do not disagree about sin nor the triune nature of God.

 

[Archivist]

I disagree that we ALL interpret scripture differently. The main points the churches may disagree are not in regards to sin, but transubstantiation, consubstantiation, or communion as a remembrance, Mary's assumption and veneration, praying through the RCC Saints rather than through Jesus, and apostolic succession, as well as the apocrypha. So these are matter of faith in how one worships and prays and receives Christ, but the main churches do not disagree about sin nor the triune nature of God.

I use the term "all" in general...yes, I'm sure that many individuals have similiar interpretations.

I never said that the main churches did disagree about the triune nature of God. However, there are many areas of disagreement. You have named some, but obviously there are many others---the leadership role of women, views on abortion, interpretaion of Genesis, interpretation of Revelation, the ordination of homosexuals to name a few. There are many on this Forum who see these issues as set in stone, with there interpretation being the one and only valid interpretation, which is simply not so.

 

[one11]

I use the term "all" in general...yes, I'm sure that many individuals have similiar interpretations.

I never said that the main churches did disagree about the triune nature of God. However, there are many areas of disagreement. You have named some, but obviously there are many others---the leadership role of women, views on abortion, interpretaion of Genesis, interpretation of Revelation, the ordination of homosexuals to name a few. There are many on this Forum who see these issues as set in stone, with there interpretation being the one and only valid interpretation, which is simply not so.

Some of those issues are more piety with the churches that have hierarchies.

As far as non-denominational the word, worship and prayer along with evangelizing is our main focus. Many non-denominational also believe the church is not a building nor does our piety dwell there nor can it be found in a building.

I don't interpret the book of Revelation. I leave it alone.

Genesis, some was written as Hebrew poetry and some was not, some is lineage and other's prophesy.

As far as women in the church building there to help those in need, there have always been those and even in the Bible. But those with pious hierarchies are the ones in need to find this piety in their church building, which I see no point too frankly.

 

[Nadiine]

Originally Posted by Archivist

Except that we all interpret scripture differently. My interpretation is no more or less valid than your interpretation
​

In other words, scripture truth is all relative?
& if this is true, how does ANYONE spot a false teacher, prophet or wolf?
You can't becuz everybody has their own private spin on the bible
& all of them valuable.

The issue is what's actually true & what the Bible does clearly say;
not how many hypothesis, speculations & theories different people have
which makes all of them valid & accurate truths for themselves.

Those without the Holy Spirit can claim to understand scripture
differently & claim to be Christians, when actually, the reason they
don't accept what it DOES clearly teach & command is becuz they
lack God leading them into truth.

The Pharisees claimed to be of God, yet their fruit & beliefs
actually proved otherwise.
The Bible is spiritually discerned - one needs His Spirit for proper
understanding of spiritual matters.

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God,
for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them,
because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Corinthians 2:13-15 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 2

Luke 24:45
And He [Jesus] opened their understanding, that they might
comprehend the Scriptures.
Luke 24:44-46 (in Context) Luke 24

Mat 13
13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:


‘ Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;

John 8
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me.
43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word.
44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him.
When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

Eph 4:17
17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind,
18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart;
19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

Peter taught that those who don't understand it & who twist what
it says do so to their own destruction. So it doesn't make anything
relatively true - it means what they're wrong about can destroy
them ultimately.
2 Peter 3:16
as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand,
which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
2 Peter 3:15-17 (in Context) 2 Peter 3

There are more verses that support this concept of the Bible being
spiritually understood -
So the biblical truth is that many who CLAIM to be of God & have all
these false teachings & promotion of evil as good, aren't Christians
with "different interpretations", they're actually not of God at all.

Jesus & others told us to beware of false prophets/teachers who's fruit
would be evident
2 Peter 2:1
[ False Teachers and Their Destruction ]
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you.
They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2 Peter 2:1-3 (in Context) 2 Peter 2

I don't just accept everyone's claims that they're a Christian as they
start heresy & lies & immorality contrary to the scriptures & the
early church examples we have.

That is actually exposing their spirit - instead of rejecting them today,
people are being programmed to claim the bible is relative & we ALL
have different interpretations & to be ok with it all.

 

[Tissue]

So you know because....you know. Sounds like emotion to me.

Actually, it's called faith. And it's exactly what you have too. You can't give a rational argument for your belief in God; you simply have it because you know it.

 

[Archivist]

In other words, scripture truth is all relative? & if this is true, how does ANYONE spot a false teacher, prophet or wolf? You can't becuz everybody has their own private spin on the bible
& all of them valuable.

So whose interpretation is to prevail? What makes your interpretation of scripture any more or less valid than mine or anyone elses?

The issue is what's actually true & what the Bible does clearly say;
not how many hypothesis, speculations & theories different people have
which makes all of them valid & accurate truths for themselves.

But there are many things that the Bible does clearly say--that is what we were discussing the the previous posts. For example, our Roman Catholic friends recognize the Pope as a successor to Saint Peter, who Jesus named as the "rock" of the Church. I disagree with that interpretation of Matthew 16:18, but how is their interpretation any less valid than my interpretation as a Lutheran?

Those without the Holy Spirit can claim to understand scripture
differently & claim to be Christians, when actually, the reason they
don't accept what it DOES clearly teach & command is becuz they
lack God leading them into truth.

So, whose interpretaion to we go by--YOURS?

The Pharisees claimed to be of God, yet their fruit & beliefs
actually proved otherwise. The Bible is spiritually discerned - one needs His Spirit for proper understanding of spiritual matters.

Yes, and different people interpretate scripture differently. Luther and Calvin came up with differing interpretations of several points of Scripture. Was one of them guided by the Holy Spirit and the other one not? If so, which one was wrong?

Peter taught that those who don't understand it & who twist what
it says do so to their own destruction. So it doesn't make anything
relatively true - it means what they're wrong about can destroy
them ultimately.

Again, are you claiming that your interpretation is the only correct interpretation? What about the matters upon which you are wrong?

There are more verses that support this concept of the Bible being
spiritually understood - So the biblical truth is that many who CLAIM to be of God & have all these false teachings & promotion of evil as good, aren't Christians with "different interpretations", they're actually not of God at all.

So why is your interpretation "of God" while the interpretations are not "of God." Please specifically address such matters (since this is what was under discussion in the preceeding posts) as transubstantiation, consubstantiation, or communion as a remembrance, Mary's assumption and veneration, apostolic succession, the apocrypha, the leadership role of women, abortion, interpretaion of Genesis, interpretation of Revelation, and the ordination of homosexuals.

Jesus & others told us to beware of false prophets/teachers who's fruit would be evident

Correct.

I don't just accept everyone's claims that they're a Christian as they
start heresy & lies & immorality contrary to the scriptures & the
early church examples we have.

Contrary to your interpretation of the scriptures, which may be no more or less valid than their intrepretation.

That is actually exposing their spirit - instead of rejecting them today, people are being programmed to claim the bible is relative & we ALL have different interpretations & to be ok with it all.

Again, whose interpretation is correct? Specifically, why is you interpretation of Scripture any more or less valid than mine?

 

[Nadiine]

Actually, it's called faith. And it's exactly what you have too. You can't give a rational argument for your belief in God; you simply have it because you know it.

faith in WHAT exactly?

What we feel?? Pagans & Mormons & all other false religions operate
on this. Do we all trust in self becuz it "feels right"? Even when it
refutes the Bible?

If the same bible says one thing is true, then you deny it, are YOU right instead?

 

[No Swansong]

Actually, it's called faith. And it's exactly what you have too. You can't give a rational argument for your belief in God; you simply have it because you know it.

This isn't actually true. My faith is built upon far more than chemical reactions in my brain. For example my belief in the Scriptures is based upon reason. I didn't go to Scripture with the understanding that it was reliable, I went to Scripture and learned that it is reliable though a number of different processes.

As long as there is any possibility no matter how small that any particular belief is wrong then there is an element of faith. But faith should be built upon evidence not upon emotion.

 

[Tissue]

If the same bible says one thing is true, then you deny it, are YOU right instead?

If your interpretation of the Bible says one thing is true, and then I deny it, that does not make me right. What might make me right are the reasons I have for holding that belief.

This isn't actually true. My faith is built upon far more than chemical reactions in my brain. For example my belief in the Scriptures is based upon reason. I didn't go to Scripture with the understanding that it was reliable, I went to Scripture and learned that it is reliable though a number of different processes.

As long as there is any possibility no matter how small that any particular belief is wrong then there is an element of faith. But faith should be built upon evidence not upon emotion.

I wouldn't outright dispute anything you've written here. Rationality is a very important part of any aspect of our Christian walk. Rationality interacts with faith. Faith is, in fact, a form of knowledge, but much different from many other parts of our knowledge.

I did not write my last post clearly. What I mean to say is, faith is knowledge, and it is experiential (that is, it is felt, in the same way that sight is a certain type of 'feeling). When God interacts with us and influences us, we feel him, and we try to figure out what that feeling means.

 

[one11]

So whose interpretation is to prevail? What makes your interpretation of scripture any more or less valid than mine or anyone elses?



But there are many things that the Bible does clearly say--that is what we were discussing the the previous posts. For example, our Roman Catholic friends recognize the Pope as a successor to Saint Peter, who Jesus named as the "rock" of the Church.

So why is your interpretation "of God" while the interpretations are not "of God." Please specifically address such matters (since this is what was under discussion in the preceeding posts) as transubstantiation, consubstantiation, or communion as a remembrance, Mary's assumption and veneration, apostolic succession, the apocrypha, the leadership role of women, abortion, interpretaion of Genesis, interpretation of Revelation, and the ordination of homosexuals.

Again, whose interpretation is correct? Specifically, why is you interpretation of Scripture any more or less valid than mine?

Again, you bring up issues of piety, which are outward. God doesn't care about our outward pious religious rites, he came to change the inner heart of the person.

There is a whole subforum for abortion, apologetics for some of your other questions, CP&E for others, etc.

If you'd like to tackle each of those issues on your own separately, it's best to start a thread on each.

 

[one11]

In other words, scripture truth is all relative?
& if this is true, how does ANYONE spot a false teacher, prophet or wolf?
You can't becuz everybody has their own private spin on the bible
& all of them valuable.

The issue is what's actually true & what the Bible does clearly say;
not how many hypothesis, speculations & theories different people have
which makes all of them valid & accurate truths for themselves.

Those without the Holy Spirit can claim to understand scripture
differently & claim to be Christians, when actually, the reason they
don't accept what it DOES clearly teach & command is becuz they
lack God leading them into truth.

The Pharisees claimed to be of God, yet their fruit & beliefs
actually proved otherwise.
The Bible is spiritually discerned - one needs His Spirit for proper
understanding of spiritual matters.

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God,
for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them,
because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Corinthians 2:13-15 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 2

Luke 24:45
And He [Jesus] opened their understanding, that they might
comprehend the Scriptures.
Luke 24:44-46 (in Context) Luke 24

Mat 13
13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:


‘ Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;

John 8
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me.
43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word.
44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him.
When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

Eph 4:17
17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind,
18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart;
19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

Peter taught that those who don't understand it & who twist what
it says do so to their own destruction. So it doesn't make anything
relatively true - it means what they're wrong about can destroy
them ultimately.
2 Peter 3:16
as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand,
which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
2 Peter 3:15-17 (in Context) 2 Peter 3

There are more verses that support this concept of the Bible being
spiritually understood -
So the biblical truth is that many who CLAIM to be of God & have all
these false teachings & promotion of evil as good, aren't Christians
with "different interpretations", they're actually not of God at all.

Jesus & others told us to beware of false prophets/teachers who's fruit
would be evident
2 Peter 2:1
[ False Teachers and Their Destruction ]
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you.
They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2 Peter 2:1-3 (in Context) 2 Peter 2

I don't just accept everyone's claims that they're a Christian as they
start heresy & lies & immorality contrary to the scriptures & the
early church examples we have.

That is actually exposing their spirit - instead of rejecting them today,
people are being programmed to claim the bible is relative & we ALL
have different interpretations & to be ok with it all.

Amen! And definitely a post worth several reads!

 

[elephunky]

Me too, but my God lines up with scripture or he shows me His meaning of the scripture and then I understand and I feel myself growing and growing closer to Him in His splendor. The splendor of Him never ceases.

How have you felt God in your life?

I have felt him at many points, I have felt his presence through prayer, I have felt him answer my prayers. He saved me from the darkest hours of my life, if it werent for him, i wouldnt even be here right now.

exactly... if the writers are liars & full of error; making stuff up &
completely wrong about God, why even accept any of it from them?
I sure wouldn't - in fact it's becuz the writers of other religious books are
full of error & falsity that I reject all the other religions.
& I'd also say someone is a fool for accepting such writers in a spiritual context.

I guess we pick & choose according to our CURRENT wisdom.
I'd note that many people do not have common sense, many
do not have wisdom or proper education or maturity & are making their assumptions based on these flawed and corrupted (thru sin) faculties.

Should anyone feel comfortable placing their soul on faulty writers????

Well, it looks like the OP is wise enough to create her own
customized/personalized belief system - so I see little point in continuing
on this subject becuz her truth & morality are merely relative.

Until God is properly identified & acknowledged, there's no point to go further becuz everything is based on self truths. (feelings, opinions)
All this boils down to is human willpower.

The real issue isn't the sin, but the relationship one carries with the
True Saviour... not sinning isn't getting anyone INTO heaven.
A TRUE relationship with Christ on His terms is. & His terms are
spelled out in that Bible.
(the bible people have made into swiss cheese
to suit their personal desires & self will).

How does one know the Lord yet deny His very Word?

How many times do i have to repeat myself?

I find trouble trusting certain parts of the bible for the pure fact it was written by man. yes i know it was guided by god, but man isnt always right in interpretation. I believe that they told the basics as it was intended to, but the specific "laws" could of been manipulated to what they saw as a benefit to the culture of that time.

 

[one11]

I have felt him at many points, I have felt his presence through prayer, I have felt him answer my prayers. He saved me from the darkest hours of my life, if it werent for him, i wouldnt even be here right now.



How many times do i have to repeat myself?

I find trouble trusting certain parts of the bible for the pure fact it was written by man. yes i know it was guided by god, but man isnt always right in interpretation. I believe that they told the basics as it was intended to, but the specific "laws" could of been manipulated to what they saw as a benefit to the culture of that time.

As for your first paragraph, VERY COOL and I understand.

As for your second paragraph, you may want to study church history a little and this is a post I just wrote under the Apologetics section of this forum. Here's my post about church and it's history:

You can find the below post in the Apologetics section.

*************************

You need to study "church" history. Up until the middle ages when Martin Luther was the first to translate the Bible into German so that people could read the scriptures in their own language, that prior to that event the RCC would not let anyone read the scriptures who wasn't in the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church, AND the RCC (Roman Catholic Church) only allowed the scriptures to be read in Latin and even in Latin within the Roman Catholic churches until about the 1960's.

There were others prior to Martin Luther who attempted to transcribed the Bible into other languages, but the people that did that were burned alive. (You can study these on the internet.)

Also, the RCC said there was no salvation OUTSIDE of the Roman Catholic Church for hundreds of centuries (and still does to some extent), so peasants who didn't even read the Bible (nor even understand the RCC services since they were in Latin), where kept in this bondage of fear of losing their salvation if they left the RCC, which the Bible says no such thing (even the Catholic Bible says no such thing.)

Also, under the RCC during all those centuries past, if one was excommunicated from the RCC one couldn't get a job and there would NO way to support one's family.

Since the translating of the first Bible by Luther in a language other than Latin, many people wanted to be released from the oppression of the RCC and to be able to read the Bible in their own language.

Protestantism has only existed for 500 approx. years, but there were other problems with the Anglican church of England that others began to protest because the Anglican church of England was more or less dictated by the Kings and Queens of England which is not scriptural either and was another oppression, so many fled to a new land called "America". America was then set up with colonies where people could have freedom of religion without fear of being killed under tyrants.

Also, there are many people even in today's modern world who do not read the Bible but are more or less following what their parents are doing. So they often chose the religion of their family and do not read the Bible nor care too.

A lot of religion has been used to oppress the masses to make a few in the church itself rich. Or they twist the scripture in order to get more money for the church, such as when the RCC started selling indulgences to poor peasants who knew nothing because for one thing they didn't even speak Latin. The indulgences were started to pay for the building of Saint Peter's in Rome.

There are a lot of good websites to read on church history but I would also recommend watching the movies:

Luther
Elizabeth - The Golden Age

and one I thought that was very interesting recently that I watched was "Goya's Ghost" especially in regardings to the RCC's "the question", but it was a very tragic movie, too. But I'd still recommend it.