Interesting observation

[bugkiller]

The wicked are simply those who commit evil acts. Of course the law has no place if we are sinless, i.e. commit no evil acts. Otherwise, and until then, the law continues its role for us-as a teacher. We just need to be honest with ourselves.

Then are you saying the Christian who sins is wicked as in without salvation? If so how do you deal with I Jn 1:9 where John is speaking to Christians or with Paul's confession in Rom 7?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Of course it is, since the law commands not to murder or commit adultery. It's simply the manner in how its kept, in how righteousness or obedience is achieved, whether by being under the law, or under grace.

Then my neighbor who will tell you what to do with your religion is saved. I simply can not buy that. Salvation only comes through Jesus.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Ok, I'm not much one for strictly heeding private revelations, even though I know they can be valid. It's just that the public revelation, given by Christ at His advent, is the once and for all truth that all other beliefs must take second stage to.

Public Scripture revelation agrees with what you are calling a made up private revelation.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

We're obligated to obedience, like it or not. Sin has and always will separate God's creation from Himself. The New Covenant is about turning to God, and away from sin, both with His help as our sins are forgiven. The Church has historically taught that the ten commandments reflect the Divine will for man in certain basic ways, ways that serve as a standard that we must indeed adhere to. As we come to obey the two Greatest Commandments, loving God and neighbor, the others are obeyed without effort, without even need for reference to them. That doesn't happen just by the fact that we've once been justified, however. Hence the need to be reminded. Anyway, the bottom line, taught by the Church: "At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love."

Obedience to what? the OC? How? We have a new and unprecedented covenant that replaces the OC according to the Scripture even quoting Jesus (God).

bugkiller

 

[fhansen]

Then are you saying the Christian who sins is wicked as in without salvation? If so how do you deal with I Jn 1:9 where John is speaking to Christians or with Paul's confession in Rom 7?

bugkiller

Let me put it this way: it doesn't matter who you are or who we think we are or what level of faith we assess ourselves as having, if we are sinning, particularly sinning in a grave manner, against love of God and/or neighbor, we are on tenuous ground vis a vis salvation.

 

[fhansen]

Obedience to what? the OC? How? We have a new and unprecedented covenant that replaces the OC according to the Scripture even quoting Jesus (God).

bugkiller

And that new and unprecedented covenant simply does not relieve or excuse us from the obligation to be obedient to God. The New Covenant was never intended to be a license to sin, but just the opposite, the authentic means to be free from it-and free from its wages. And obedience comes as a result of being justified; human justice/holiness/righteousness best defined by the term "love", which produces obedience by its nature. The law is simply a physical guideline, written in stone because man failed to read that which was written his heart. But now we're forgiven; God forgives and forgives and forgives, but at some point we make our bed; we can ultimately refuse and reject His forgiveness, returning to and remaining in our sin, apart from Him.

 

[fhansen]

Public Scripture revelation agrees with what you are calling a made up private revelation.

bugkiller

Well, the receiver of the private revelation would always hope so at least.

 

[listed]

Thanks. It does get old saying the same thing all the time especially to people who have been here a while.

bugkiller

Sorry I haven't been over here lately. Had some problems and busy in the law section you don't seem to post in anymore.

 

[listed]

The wicked are simply those who commit evil acts. Of course the law has no place if we are sinless, i.e. commit no evil acts. Otherwise, and until then, the law continues its role for us-as a teacher. We just need to be honest with ourselves.

So does sin void a person's salvation? Haven't you read Corinthians who Paul calls saints?

 

[fhansen]

Then my neighbor who will tell you what to do with your religion is saved. I simply can not buy that. Salvation only comes through Jesus.

bugkiller

I'm not sure I understand; the gospel is a whole package, that we must hear, so that we can believe. We don't preach the law first of all, as if that can justify and save us, rather we preach Christ, who saves us by reconciling us with God. The law enters in to the teaching to show us when we're remaining in Christ, and when we aren't. This is why Christianity has always, in the eastern and western ancient churches as well as reformed and mainline Protestant churches, continued to consider it beneficial or profitable to teach the Ten Commandments.

 

[listed]

Of course it is, since the law commands not to murder or commit adultery. It's simply the manner in how its kept, in how righteousness or obedience is achieved, whether by being under the law, or under grace.

The law commands nothing of me as a gentile or Christian.

 

[listed]

We're obligated to obedience, like it or not. Sin has and always will separate God's creation from Himself. The New Covenant is about turning to God, and away from sin, both with His help as our sins are forgiven. The Church has historically taught that the ten commandments reflect the Divine will for man in certain basic ways, ways that serve as a standard that we must indeed adhere to. As we come to obey the two Greatest Commandments, loving God and neighbor, the others are obeyed without effort, without even need for reference to them. That doesn't happen just by the fact that we've once been justified, however. Hence the need to be reminded. Anyway, the bottom line, taught by the Church: "At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love."

Why do you think we're required to keep the law, when Paul says: But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held?

 

[fhansen]

Then are you saying the Christian who sins is wicked as in without salvation? If so how do you deal with I Jn 1:9 where John is speaking to Christians or with Paul's confession in Rom 7?

bugkiller

"Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister." 1 John 3:4-10

 

[listed]

And that new and unprecedented covenant simply does not relieve or excuse us from the obligation to be obedient to God. The New Covenant was never intended to be a license to sin, but just the opposite, the authentic means to be free from it-and free from its wages. And obedience comes as a result of being justified; human justice/holiness/righteousness best defined by the term "love", which produces obedience by its nature. The law is simply a physical guideline, written in stone because man failed to read that which was written his heart. But now we're forgiven; God forgives and forgives and forgives, but at some point we make our bed; we can ultimately refuse and reject His forgiveness, returning to and remaining in our sin, apart from Him.

That NC does excuse us from the OC it replaced. This doesn't mean we're now authorized to be wicked. Romans 6:1.

 

[listed]

Well, the receiver of the private revelation would always hope so at least.

Can you show what buggy said to be contrary to Scripture?

 

[listed]

"Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister." 1 John 3:4-10

Then by your insinuation with Scripture all including Christians are of the devil.

 

[listed]

Then my neighbor who will tell you what to do with your religion is saved. I simply can not buy that. Salvation only comes through Jesus.

bugkiller

Interesting post.

 

[listed]

Let me put it this way: it doesn't matter who you are or who we think we are or what level of faith we assess ourselves as having, if we are sinning, particularly sinning in a grave manner, against love of God and/or neighbor, we are on tenuous ground vis a vis salvation.

Only for those who practice a life style of sin.

 

[listed]

I'm not sure I understand; the gospel is a whole package, that we must hear, so that we can believe. We don't preach the law first of all, as if that can justify and save us, rather we preach Christ, who saves us by reconciling us with God. The law enters in to the teaching to show us when we're remaining in Christ, and when we aren't. This is why Christianity has always, in the eastern and western ancient churches as well as reformed and mainline Protestant churches, continued to consider it beneficial or profitable to teach the Ten Commandments.

Since the law can't grant salvation, how can it void salvation?

 

[fhansen]

Since the law can't grant salvation, how can it void salvation?

Sin, persistent and unrepented, voids salvation. The law simply reveals sin.