Interesting observation

[fhansen]

Then by your insinuation with Scripture all including Christians are of the devil.

It was John's insinuation if you want to read it that way. The point is that faith does not exclude us from the obligation to be righteous, or even stand in for it once we're forgiven, cleansed, made new creations, as if we could practice unrighteousness as a lifestyle at some point thereafter. But, once justified, that state of justice can be lost, we're NOT OSAS IOW. We can return to the status we had before we were justified; we can be in a state of injustice again. And so we can't simply presume that we're still saved; rather we start over, now as believers who've tasted of the heavenly gift but have fallen away, in need of repentance and reconciliation again. This is all about a change of heart. There are weightier sins and less weighty ones, sins that lead to death as John put it, and that are always oriented against love of God and/or neighbor. Persistence in this mentality is to walk-and live-away from God.

 

[fhansen]

Then are you saying the Christian who sins is wicked as in without salvation? If so how do you deal with I Jn 1:9 where John is speaking to Christians or with Paul's confession in Rom 7?

bugkiller

Paul is telling us in Rom 7 that Christ is the only thing that can free us from the law of sin, so that we may live by the Spirit. This is the means of overcoming sin, not merely being forgiven of it or having it nonimputed.

 

[fhansen]

Why do you think we're required to keep the law, when Paul says: But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held?

We're delivered from being "under the law", from having to prove or achieve righteousness by our own efforts rather than by grace, by God's work in us, by God IOW rather than by ourselves, apart from Him as if that were possible.

 

[bugkiller]

Can you show what buggy said to be contrary to Scripture?

He can not do that.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Sin, persistent and unrepented, voids salvation. The law simply reveals sin.

That is not what John says. I could say this many different ways, but I like simple understandable statements.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Paul is telling us in Rom 7 that Christ is the only thing that can free us from the law of sin, so that we may live by the Spirit. This is the means of overcoming sin, not merely being forgiven of it or having it nonimputed.

Which has nothing to do with the law.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

We're delivered from being "under the law", from having to prove or achieve righteousness by our own efforts rather than by grace, by God's work in us, by God IOW rather than by ourselves, apart from Him as if that were possible.

Your post indicates some degree of self reliance lacking full trust in the Gospel. Er well I went back to it. I need to ask if Jesus enables us to keep the law ourselves. If so why do most Christians not keep it?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

It was John's insinuation if you want to read it that way. The point is that faith does not exclude us from the obligation to be righteous, or even stand in for it once we're forgiven, cleansed, made new creations, as if we could practice unrighteousness as a lifestyle at some point thereafter. But, once justified, that state of justice can be lost, we're NOT OSAS IOW. We can return to the status we had before we were justified; we can be in a state of injustice again. And so we can't simply presume that we're still saved; rather we start over, now as believers who've tasted of the heavenly gift but have fallen away, in need of repentance and reconciliation again. This is all about a change of heart. There are weightier sins and less weighty ones, sins that lead to death as John put it, and that are always oriented against love of God and/or neighbor. Persistence in this mentality is to walk-and live-away from God.

No, there are problems with your idea of your quoted passage in verse 6 even with the rest of John's works: like I Jn 1:9. There are many other problem passages like Rom 4 illustrates with both Abraham and David. I can branch out from there very easily to I Tim 1:9 for instance.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Paul is telling us in Rom 7 that Christ is the only thing that can free us from the law of sin, so that we may live by the Spirit. This is the means of overcoming sin, not merely being forgiven of it or having it nonimputed.

Maybe you are talking about chapters 4 and 8.

bugkiller