Interesting Article!

[McScribe]

A few points on the Miley bit.

First off: Why is this so bloody shocking? Does NOBODY remember the late nineties and possibly early oughts when everybody thought that Marilyn Manson was literally a satanist, or when a sexualized 16 year old named Britney Spears was gyrating on stage? Come on dude. This is TAME stuff. Nobody does anything shocking anymore.

Second of all, the only reason she's getting slvt-shamed to this extent is because she used to be Hannah Montana. If Lady Gaga or Nicki Minaj did it, NOBODY would have said anything.

And third, why do pastors have to be so unoriginal as to have to use low-hanging fruit moments like this to teach a lesson? Can they be taught without using a reference to Miley or whatever the shock-of-the-moment is to sucker attention out of people? What about using the potential Syria conflict to illustrate how a house divided cannot stand, or using what's going on in North Carolina to understand what happens when oppression is attempted and people don't learn from history? No, instead we just want to slvt shame women. As does most of the Christian world. Hella lame.

I'm not following you. Are you saying that the pastor should be saying "Meh, twerk all you want, girls."?

 

[mkgal1]

No, instead we just want to slvt shame women. As does most of the Christian world. Hella lame.

Did you read the article linking in the OP, Imperial? That's just what he *didn't* want to do (that's what the REST of the world is doing). The author had an alternative to that.

It's a popular topic in blogs, because it's current and being discussed everywhere. Someone needs to guide the discussion into what's right (and I believe the blog author did just that---away from the common focus of shaming Miley).

 

[mkgal1]

I'm not following you. Are you saying that the pastor should be saying "Meh, twerk all you want, girls."?

No.....he said,

Can they be taught without using a reference to Miley or whatever the shock-of-the-moment is to sucker attention out of people? What about using the potential Syria conflict to illustrate how a house divided cannot stand, or using what's going on in North Carolina to understand what happens when oppression is attempted and people don't learn from history?

IOW (I take that to mean).....there is more to life than "twerking" or other behavior meant for the purpose of "shock value". There are other sources of lessons on integrity.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

IMO....she was chosen to perform with him for a reason (a calculated one.....is my guess).

Yes... It was a medley of nominees in a specific category they were both nominated for. 3 out of the 5 nominees performed.

 

[mkgal1]

Meaning?

Meaning all the attitudes relative to this as well (what Shelli Latham pointed out...quoted in the article).

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Second of all, the only reason she's getting slvt-shamed to this extent is because she used to be Hannah Montana. If Lady Gaga or Nicki Minaj did it, NOBODY would have said anything.

Case-in-point... Earlier in the evening, Lady Gaga performed... Entirely nude.

Not a peep.

 

[mkgal1]

Case-in-point... Earlier in the evening, Lady Gaga performed... Entirely nude.

Not a peep.

Because nudity isn't the issue. (She wasn't "entirely nude", either).

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Meaning all the attitudes relative to this as well (what Shelli Latham pointed out...quoted in the article).

So you don't think if it was Miley Cyrus standing there while Robin Thicke grabbed her nether regions, her chest, twerked against her, or climbed on her and kissed her neck that people would say that she was publicly fondled and blame him for his bad behavior?

I don't think that it's fair that Robin Thicke, who was highly passive in this performance, is getting called to task for being and older father and thus should "know better" when the context is something was done to him, not he did something to somebody else.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Because nudity isn't the issue. (She wasn't "entirely nude", either).

Oh, I'm sorry... She was wearing seashells on her breasts.

Obviously nudity is the issue as Miley Cyrus's nude bikini, which was much more revealing than what Gaga wore, is being brought up as a factor in the immodesty and indecency of the performance.

Miley did her song, got back in her outfit, and went back to her seat for her catagory, then left to record a song. Lady Gaga remained only very technically not nude for the remainder of the show. Nobody said a word about it. Why? Because they expect this sort of thing of Gaga. I think, like I said earlier and Phantom said again, the issue isn't what Cyrus did, it's that people are now suddenly being forced to accept that she's not Hannah Montana anymore.

 

[mkgal1]

Pastor Chip Ingram has said that Christians have a habit of attacking bad fruit instead of looking to the source and asking, "why is this being produced". IMO....that basically sums up the main issue with all of this. It's not the outfits (however horrible and minimal).....it's not the lewd gestures......it's all the attitudes that drive this train (some of them being, "Girls’ sexuality is so much the focus of our ire. Women who have sex are dirty. Men who have sex are men. Girls who dress to be ogled are hoes. Men who ogle are just doing what comes naturally.")

 

[mkgal1]

I don't think that it's fair that Robin Thicke, who was highly passive in this performance, is getting called to task for being and older father and thus should "know better" when the context is something was done to him, not he did something to somebody else.

He also wrote the lyrics and has a music video that's pretty similar (with some pretty vulgar suggestions in it).

 

[Hetta]

He also wrote the lyrics and has a music video that's pretty similar (with some pretty vulgar suggestions in it).

Yes that is true. I don't perceive the man to be blameless at all. He may not have liked Miley trying to upstage him, but an hour later he was squeezing a stranger's buttocks, so I don't see him as very innocent.

I also wanted to say that MkGal never said that the article was the panacea for all of society's ills, nor did she say it was some kind of "plan" on how to talk to your sons and daughters. The exact title of this thread is "interesting article." Nobody should even look to a stranger to give them a step-by-step plan on how to talk to teens and, quite honestly, if people haven't already talked to their teens about how to interact with the opposite sex, it's probably too late now.

 

[Hetta]

I think, like I said earlier and Phantom said again, the issue isn't what Cyrus did, it's that people are now suddenly being forced to accept that she's not Hannah Montana anymore.

In America, she stopped being Hannah Montana when she started talking about how great sex was, shaved her hair off, got tattoos and started dressing skimpily. That was about, uh, 2 or 3 years ago. In fact, I think that for a lot people she stopped being HM when she did the topless Vanity Fair shoot, and at that point she was 15 or 16.

 

[McScribe]

Yes that is true. I don't perceive the man to be blameless at all. He may not have liked Miley trying to upstage him, but an hour later he was squeezing a stranger's buttocks, so I don't see him as very innocent.

I also wanted to say that MkGal never said that the article was the panacea for all of society's ills, nor did she say it was some kind of "plan" on how to talk to your sons and daughters. The exact title of this thread is "interesting article." Nobody should even look to a stranger to give them a step-by-step plan on how to talk to teens and, quite honestly, if people haven't already talked to their teens about how to interact with the opposite sex, it's probably too late now.

1. Romans put up the article, not MK, and linked to a book on how men are responsible for domestic violence and rape. So it's not merely 'interesting' it was intended to emphasize one of the main points the pastor raises.

2. We shouldn't look to a stranger to give them a step by step plan on how to talk to teens? I'm confused by this. Are you implying that such information comes from our own minds like Athena supposedly sprang from Zeus' forehead in Greek mythology? Or do we get information in life from many potential sources? Are pastors posting blogs online offering themselves up as authorities on subjects or are they the equivalent of a drunk stranger on a bus?

3. Or are you suggesting when something is interesting we should just rub our chins musing "Hm, interesting" and not actually discuss what they probably meant?

One other thing I'd like to bring up: I will, at every opportunity, vehemently refuse to accept it when anyone, man or woman, draws attention to how men mistreat women in a manner that denies that the reverse takes place. If we are to have equality we must accept that each sex is capable of mistreating the other.

 

[Hetta]

LOL. I am not interested in arguing about extremes. I don't think that the pastor is either an "authority" or a "drunk stranger on a bus." He's just another person with another viewpoint, and I don't accept any of these people as "authorities". Only my husband and I raise our children, but we do so with a small "village" including grandparents, other relations, and friends. I don't rely on internet strangers to raise my children or instill values into them.

 

[CounselorForChrist]

::continues to read::

 

[Audiomechanic]

A few points on the Miley bit.

First off: Why is this so bloody shocking? Does NOBODY remember the late nineties and possibly early oughts when everybody thought that Marilyn Manson was literally a satanist, or when a sexualized 16 year old named Britney Spears was gyrating on stage? Come on dude. This is TAME stuff. Nobody does anything shocking anymore.

Second of all, the only reason she's getting slvt-shamed to this extent is because she used to be Hannah Montana. If Lady Gaga or Nicki Minaj did it, NOBODY would have said anything.

And third, why do pastors have to be so unoriginal as to have to use low-hanging fruit moments like this to teach a lesson? Can they be taught without using a reference to Miley or whatever the shock-of-the-moment is to sucker attention out of people? What about using the potential Syria conflict to illustrate how a house divided cannot stand, or using what's going on in North Carolina to understand what happens when oppression is attempted and people don't learn from history? No, instead we just want to slvt shame women. As does most of the Christian world. Hella lame.

Pretty much agree with all of this.

 

[McScribe]

Pretty much agree with all of this.

Really. In spite of the fact that both the OP and follow up posts are aimed at shaming men?

Everything I have been saying is wit the intent of encouraging equality. I find it interesting that several posters seem to find it perfectly a
Right to shame men where hardly anyone writing here has focused on Miley alone.

 

[McScribe]

Not to speak for McScribe, but I assume it came from her saying it's bad parenting to consider advice from an "online stranger," and she prefers to get her advice from her husband and grandparents. Which is kind of an odd statement to make in an online forum... aren't we all here to consider advice? Why even be here if you've got your "village" and the rest of the world has nothing to contribute?

Basically this.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Really. In spite of the fact that both the OP and follow up posts are aimed at shaming men?

Everything I have been saying is wit the intent of encouraging equality. I find it interesting that several posters seem to find it perfectly a
Right to shame men where hardly anyone writing here has focused on Miley alone.

Um, I haven't been shaming men or RT. I said quite specifically that I feel like blaming him for what Miley did to him is unfair. I also said that saying "he asked for it" or "he encouraged it" because he wrote a provocative song is like saying a woman who dresses provocatively is asking for or encouraging people to compromise her body, integrity, and personal space because of how she dressed. I also said that if roles had been reversed, if RT had done to MC what she did to him, there would be outrage over how disgusting he is and people would be saying he violated her on stage, whereas now people are trying to shame RT for what happened to him by somebody else, blaming a song he wrote years prior to the event as encouraging the behavior. I'm seeing a lot of "I don't agree with what she did, but she was only doing what RT's song told her to do" which is pretty much saying that what she did is wrong, but she's not accountable for what she did because she was led by him. Watching the performance, that's simply not the case... She did it before he came on stage (during her song about drugs, breaking and entering, and promiscuous sex), while he was on stage, and after she was relegated to a back stage away from RT and the other guy because of her behavior. And she's been doing it at numerous performances, as requested by people and on her own, for at least the last year.