Interesting Article!

[McScribe]

Um, I haven't been shaming men or RT. I said quite specifically that I feel like blaming him for what Miley did to him is unfair. I also said that saying "he asked for it" or "he encouraged it" because he wrote a provocative song is like saying a woman who dresses provocatively is asking for or encouraging people to compromise her body, integrity, and personal space because of how she dressed. I also said that if roles had been reversed, if RT had done to MC what she did to him, there would be outrage over how disgusting he is and people would be saying he violated her on stage, whereas now people are trying to shame RT for what happened to him by somebody else, blaming a song he wrote years prior to the event as encouraging the behavior. I'm seeing a lot of "I don't agree with what she did, but she was only doing what RT's song told her to do" which is pretty much saying that what she did is wrong, but she's not accountable for what she did because she was led by him. Watching the performance, that's simply not the case... She did it before he came on stage (during her song about drugs, breaking and entering, and promiscuous sex), while he was on stage, and after she was relegated to a back stage away from RT and the other guy because of her behavior. And she's been doing it at numerous performances, as requested by people and on her own, for at least the last year.

I wasn't talking about your posts which seem to be balanced and fair.

 

[Hetta]

Not to speak for McScribe, but I assume it came from her saying it's bad parenting to consider advice from an "online stranger," and she prefers to get her advice from her husband and grandparents. Which is kind of an odd statement to make in an online forum... aren't we all here to consider advice? Why even be here if you've got your "village" and the rest of the world has nothing to contribute?

"Her" does not seek much in the way of parenting advice from strangers, oddly enough. The occasional input, yes, but I don't use the parenting forum here because, as you said, I have my own "village". Really - are we to look to the "world" for how to parent our children? Which part of the "world" should I look to? All I see are major parenting fails, of which Miley Cyrus is a prime example. So, no, I won't be seeking advice for parenting in the world. I'm sorry if that burns anyone.

 

[Hetta]

Um, I haven't been shaming men or RT. I said quite specifically that I feel like blaming him for what Miley did to him is unfair. I also said that saying "he asked for it" or "he encouraged it" because he wrote a provocative song is like saying a woman who dresses provocatively is asking for or encouraging people to compromise her body, integrity, and personal space because of how she dressed.

I was waiting for this actually. RT wasn't raped. If he had been raped, he'd have a case to argue. He's quite obviously a very forward man sexually, or he wouldn't have been groping a fan 10 minutes later backstage, his videos wouldn't feature topless women writhing against his fully clothed body, and he wouldn't be writing songs about rape. If a woman did all of the above with the roles reversed (grabbing men's bodily parts, writing about bringing out a man's 'bad boy' and how she knows he wants it and he's going to get it) then if a man started acting during her song the way she acted, I would shrug my shoulders and anyone who made a fuss about that would be a hypocrite. Nobody was "assaulted" here. Not even a little bit. It was a pair of idiots, one of whom was singing a highly sexualized song and the other was acting out a highly sexualized song. They are equally creepy and sleazy.

 

[McScribe]

"Her" does not seek much in the way of parenting advice from strangers, oddly enough. The occasional input, yes, but I don't use the parenting forum here because, as you said, I have my own "village". Really - are we to look to the "world" for how to parent our children? Which part of the "world" should I look to? All I see are major parenting fails, of which Miley Cyrus is a prime example. So, no, I won't be seeking advice for parenting in the world. I'm sorry if that burns anyone.

That's kind of like going to a Die Hard movie with people you barely know and saying halfway through " I don't like action movies". Of course you're entitled to your opinion but then why are you here, if what is said doesnt matter and you don't care?

 

[Hetta]

why are you here, if what is said doesnt matter and you don't care?

I don't have to justify posting on a public forum to anybody.

 

[McScribe]

I don't have to justify posting on a public forum to anybody.

As I said then, don't talk to me. I'm not interested.

 

[Hetta]

LOL. But you keep on talking to me. Don't ask me questions if you don't want to talk to me! It's that simple.

 

[McScribe]

LOL. But you keep on talking to me. Don't ask me questions if you don't want to talk to me! It's that simple.

One last thing then, and it willbe the very last. I try to give people a chance to demonstrate that they are willing to be fair, courteous and reasonable. When they demonstrate instead that they are unreasonable and discourteous, I'm done. You have had no reason to respond in the spiteful way in which you have, yet you have. I will not bother to address you again in any manner, no matter how sarcastic or unpleasant your reply is.

 

[ChristianGolfer]

Not to speak for McScribe, but I assume it came from her saying it's bad parenting to consider advice from an "online stranger," and she prefers to get her advice from her husband and grandparents. Which is kind of an odd statement to make in an online forum... aren't we all here to consider advice? Why even be here if you've got your "village" and the rest of the world has nothing to contribute?

Whoa. Back off.

Hetta said that Hetta doesn't get parenting advice from strangers. That's her prerogative.

She didn't call anyone else a bad parent.

And none of us has to justify our online contributions. Some people come to forums for lively discussion, not advice.

Seriously bad form to pile on her like this for sharing her opinion. You don't have to agree, but address the post not the poster, people.

 

[ChristianGolfer]

One other thing I'd like to bring up: I will, at every opportunity, vehemently refuse to accept it when anyone, man or woman, draws attention to how men mistreat women in a manner that denies that the reverse takes place. If we are to have equality we must accept that each sex is capable of mistreating the other.

I'm honestly trying to understand where your outrage is coming from in this particular instance. The article in the OP specifically says:

There have been a number of different parenting websites or blog posts who have come up with good ways to talk to your daughter about Miley. And, don’t get me wrong, I’m all about parents talking to their daughters about sexuality.
But is no one going to hold anyone else on stage or behind the scenes accountable for that performance? Are we really going to have another one-sided conversation where we only talk to the girls about their sexuality while we completely ignore the boys in the room about their standards of behavior too?

So, essentially, this blogger is doing exactly what you claim you want done...pointing out that both genders bear some responsibility here and attempting to balance that by talking about the boys when everyone else is talking about the girls. But you're upset and calling this unbalanced.

I really wonder if you actually read the article or if you're just knee-jerking at the title.

 

[Hetta]

One last thing then, and it willbe the very last. I try to give people a chance to demonstrate that they are willing to be fair, courteous and reasonable. When they demonstrate instead that they are unreasonable and discourteous, I'm done. You have had no reason to respond in the spiteful way in which you have, yet you have. I will not bother to address you again in any manner, no matter how sarcastic or unpleasant your reply is.

Nice.

 

[McScribe]

Whoa. Back off.

Hetta said that Hetta doesn't get parenting advice from strangers. That's her prerogative.

She didn't call anyone else a bad parent.

And none of us has to justify our online contributions. Some people come to forums for lively discussion, not advice.

Seriously bad form to pile on her like this for sharing her opinion. You don't have to agree, but address the post not the poster, people.

She used her opinion to undermine my part in the discussion.

 

[McScribe]

I'm honestly trying to understand where your outrage is coming from in this particular instance. The article in the OP specifically says:



So, essentially, this blogger is doing exactly what you claim you want done...pointing out that both genders bear some responsibility here and attempting to balance that by talking about the boys when everyone else is talking about the girls. But you're upset and calling this unbalanced.

I really wonder if you actually read the article or if you're just knee-jerking at the title.

Not hardly. Blogger says men are responsible for domestic violence and rape, women are responsible for their own self respect. Not balanced.

 

[ChristianGolfer]

She used her opinion to undermine my part in the discussion.

Address the post, not the poster.

This is derailing the thread.

 

[mkgal1]

The blog/article sites he linked to for mothers talking to daughters about about dignity and self respect. The article the pastor wrote is basically "don't rape and abuse women, boys." It's lopsided. The point VG made, and that I made, is that it is not enough to write these things. There is given no sense of what the alternatives actually are, including in the women's blogs. It's hallmark card vagueness, and therefore in my opinion useless and counterproductive advice.

This seems to be your main grievance......am I correct? I don't read the same things you seem to, though. This is what the author advised to be taught to boys:

We need to talk to our sons and our brothers about respecting women and respecting themselves. Our value [and this applies to ALL genders--equally] comes from being respected and being loved as we respect and love the people who matter to us.

That's not imbalance.....that's equality. If all you got out of that, as pertaining to what it suggests the message ought to be to our boys is, "don't rape and abuse women".....then, I don't know what I can say.

 

[ChristianGolfer]

Not hardly. Blogger says men are responsible for domestic violence and rape, women are responsible for their own self respect. Not balanced.

I'm not seeing that in the article. Can you please quote the portions in which you believe he is saying that?

 

[McScribe]

Read the blog. What is expected of boys, and what is expected of girls?

 

[ChristianGolfer]

Read the blog. What is expected of boys, and what is expected of girls?

I've read the blog. I already told you I don't see in it what you're claiming is there.

So show your work. Quote the portions you think are saying what you're claiming they're saying.

If you can't do that, then I think it's safe to say that the blogger didn't really say what you say he said.

 

[Hetta]

I loved this:

So what can we do? In order to change the way we view women culturally, we need to change the way we view women individually. We need to call [redacted] on attempts to end domestic violence and misogyny towards women by only talking to our daughters. We need to talk to our sons and our brothers about respecting women and respecting themselves.

It starts in homes. It starts in small conversations that treat all people as worthy and equal. It starts with having the courage to speak out against the wide variety of forces in our society that objectify women.

It starts with understanding that as men, our value does not come from how much power we hold over women. Our value comes from being respected and being loved as we respect and love the people who matter to us.

Be brave enough to tell a different story. Be courageous enough to rise above the lies that our culture tells you about how to treat women. In doing so, you’ll help create a better world for your sons. And for your sons’ sons. And that’s something to which we should all aspire.

I believe that teaching boys to respect themselves as well as respecting women is perfect.

 

[hijklmnop]

How are women responsible for rape, Mcscribe?