Instituted at Creation

[FireDragon76]

Good point... the moral law was written by God himself on permanent stone.... the ceremonial law was written by Moses on parchment and was temporary. The tablets of stone were kept inside the ark of the covenant, the scrolls of parchment were kept on the outside. God is about details and this little detail speaks volumes about the difference between the two.

No, I think we do not really agree. I'm having trouble understanding how Sabbath observance is a moral law. A good idea perhaps, in certain contexts, but immoral rebellion to not practice it? I think that doesn't fit with the picture of Christian ethics I have, of actually seeking to do good in the world in terms of caring for our neighbor.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

No, I think we do not really agree. I'm having trouble understanding how Sabbath observance is a moral law. A good idea perhaps, in certain contexts, but immoral rebellion to not practice it? I think that doesn't fit with the picture of Christian ethics I have, of actually seeking to do good in the world in terms of caring for our neighbor.

Webster dict.
MOR'AL, a. [L. moralis, from mos, moris, manner.]
1. Relating to the practice, manners or conduct of men as social beings in relation to each other, and with reference to right and wrong. The word moral is applicable to actions that are good or evil, virtuous or vicious, and has reference to the law of God as the standard by which their character is to be determined. The word however may be applied to actions which affect only, or primarily and principally, a person's own happiness.
Keep at the least within the compass of moral actions, which have in them vice or virtue.
Mankind is broken loose from moral bands.
2. Subject to the moral law and capable of moral actions; bound to perform social duties; as a moral agent or being.
3. Supported by the evidence of reason or probability; founded on experience of the ordinary course of things; as moral certainty, distinguished from physical or mathematical certainty or demonstration.
Physical and mathematical certainty may be stiled infallible, and moral certainty may be properly stiled indubitable.
Things of a moral nature may be proved by moral arguments.
4. Conformed to rules of right, or to the divine law respecting social duties; virtuous; just; as when we say, a particular action is not moral.
5. Conformed to law and right in exterior deportment; as, he leads a good moral life.
6. Reasoning or instructing with regard to vice and virtue.
While thou, a moral fool, sitt'st still and cri'st.
7. In general, moral denotes something which respects the conduct of men and their relations as social beings whose actions have a bearing on each others's rights and happiness, and are therefore right or wrong, virtuous or vicious; as moral character; moral views; moral knowledge; moral sentiments; moral maxims; moral approbation; moral doubts; moral justice; moral virtue; moral obligations, etc. Or moral denotes something which respects the intellectual powers of man, as distinct form his physical powers. Thus we speak of moral evidence, moral arguments, moral persuasion, moral certainty, moral force; which operate on the mind.
Moral law, the law of God which prescribes the moral or social duties, and prohibits the transgression of them.
Moral sense, an innate or natural sense of right and wrong; an instinctive perception of what is right or wrong in moral conduct, which approves some actions and disapproves others, independent of education or the knowledge of any positive rule or law. But the existence of any such moral sense is very much doubted.
Moral philosophy, the science of manners and duty; the science which treats of the nature and condition of man as a social being, of the duties which result form his social relations, and the reasons on which they are founded.
MOR'AL, n. Morality; the doctrine or practice of the duties of life. [Not much used.]
1. The doctrine inculcated by a fiction; the accommodation of a fable to form the morals.
The moral is the first business of the poet.
MOR'AL, v.i. To moralize. [Not in use.]

God's 4th Commandment is indeed a Moral law as are all the 10. They give us the KNOWLEDGE of SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS (Good and Evil)

 

[BobRyan]

Interesting that D.L. Moody also affirms the Bible detail that the Sabbath was given to mankind in Eden - Genesis 2:1-3

No he doesn't.

yes he does

You're free to prove he does. .

I did that a few dozen times .. you a free to prove he did not write it

1 John 5 quoted above - but as I understand it some folks like to see all the text from John that can be included on-topic... so for them. Jesus affirms scripture - and the fact that His words are not His own - but rather the Father's Commandments.

================================

John 14
9 Jesus *said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

John 12
49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. 50 I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”

Matt 19
17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man *said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

=============================

D.L. Moody not entirely opposed to John 14:15 --

1. agrees that the Sabbath was binding on all mankind - starting in Eden.

========================================
D.L. Moody notices that some are opposed to the Sabbath Commandment - but notice how this sermon on the TEN Commandments also fits the summary of 7 points listed here on page 1??

THE TEN COMMANDMENTS text by D. L. Moody

BY THE
DWIGHT L. MOODY
The Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2-17
.
The Fourth Commandment


Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.​

[FONT=&quot]THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.
"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)
It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes;

------------------------------------------

This Sabbath Commandment section of Moody's Ten Commandment sermon goes quot]on with more detail. Here is a segment of that same section -- the ending concluding segment - that might help shed even more light on Moody's Intent - #229 post is on this

No sir you've taken quotes out of context

Just not in real life.

Here it is again... proof of my point

BY THE
DWIGHT L. MOODY
The Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2-17
.
The Fourth Commandment


Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.​

[FONT=&quot]THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.
"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)
It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes;

 

[BobRyan]

No, I think we do not really agree. I'm having trouble understanding how Sabbath observance is a moral law. .

how nice that even the pro-Sunday sources admit that the TEN Commandments are included in the "Moral LAW" of God written on the Heart under the NEW Covenant.

these Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

 

[BobRyan]

That's it, I'm not 'standing on simple math', see. I am standing on John 1:10,11; 17,18, Jesus Christ now being the Law of God.

Jesus said "if you would enter into life KEEP the Commandments" -- then Jesus was asked "Which ONES"?

Question - did He say "I am the Law of God now -- keep ME"?

What did He actually say -- given that we don't want to make anything up - what did HE say?

The the quote of Jesus by John a personal disciple of Jesus is lying in John 10. .

What an odd statement to make

Yes it's an odd statement to believe Jesus.

I find your logic "illusive" just then

 

[FireDragon76]

how nice that even the pro-Sunday sources admit that the TEN Commandments are included in the "Moral LAW" of God written on the Heart under the NEW Covenant.

these Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians..

We do not understand the 3rd Commandment pertaining to worshiping on any particular day of the week. Luther was opposed to Sabbatarianism.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

No, I think we do not really agree. I'm having trouble understanding how Sabbath observance is a moral law. A good idea perhaps, in certain contexts, but immoral rebellion to not practice it? I think that doesn't fit with the picture of Christian ethics I have, of actually seeking to do good in the world in terms of caring for our neighbor.

God has called us to willingly take one day from the seven He has given us to just focus on Him... His creation... His Word... His people in fellowship... in surrender to Him. Not any day but the one He declared Holy and Worthy at creation.

If you don't think being disobedient is immoral then I don't have a better definition.

 

[listed]

Do you steal? No? It is because the Commandment says to not steal. This is what Paul taught...

Romans 7:7
...I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

No.
It is because of Luke 6:31 and John 13:34.

 

[listed]

What verses in those two chapters says anything about the 7th day Sabbath, that was Sanctified and Hallowed by Him, being changed?

Why do you need these words "thou shalt not keep the 7th day sabbath?"

Do you esteem a day above another? The answer is an obvious yes. What day is that? How then can it be Romans 14:5 does not specifically mean or include the sabbath?

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

What manner of observance does this include? Is it not anything done on a holy day in our case the sabbath because that is what is under discussion? Is the new moon a holy day under the law? Do you observe it with special attention? I bet you don't. Wouldn't that be taking part of the Scripture and tossing it out?

 

[listed]

You do realize the verse you referenced in Luke 24:44 speaks of the law of Moses but says nothing of the Law of God.
Moses wrote down some laws on parchment.... instituted for the Israelite's for societal governance in temporal as well as spiritual matters.

God wrote down some Laws in stone... instituted for all mankind as a warning for what sin is.

What is it about concerning Me in the verse you don't understand?

 

[listed]

Nobody here is saying the Law imparts righteousness... stop trying to muddy the clear waters of truth.

How can that be when not keeping the law in your eyes makes one unrighteous and disqualifies them from being able to eat from the Tree of Life?

 

[listed]

If you know the truth and refuse to honour God in it, then yes, that is willful rebellion against God.

But I don't believe you're presenting the truth about the law. 1 Timothy 1:8 talks about rightly (lawfully) using the law. The next verse says the law isn't for the righteous (Christian). No that doesn't grant permission to sin.

 

[listed]

Then maybe you should have referenced those instead of scrambling to explain your poorly referenced post. It appears you are lily pad hopping.

I'm sorry about your refusal to read the Scripture. I'm not here for your convenience. If you were truly interested you would at least google it.

 

[listed]

The new moon in that verse can be understood as monthly which dovetails perfectly with another verse talking about living on the new earth...

Revelation 22:2
In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

You see, we will be living in our "country" dwellings and come to the city every week for worship of the Creator and every month to receive from the tree of life.

If your contention about Isiah 66:23 is worshiping on the 7th day of the week, that is also required on the new moon. The verse doesn't deal with Revelation 22:2 because it wan't written then. All you're doing is avoiding the truth.

 

[listed]

Saying that because somebody doesn't practice Sabbath observance according to Jewish or SDA tenets equals rebellion against God seems to be confusing ceremonial with moral law. Frankly, this represents an abandonment of true Christian ethics in favor of legalism.

That's not all it abandons.

 

[listed]

As I have previously stated, Jesus is indeed our spiritual rest... the Sabbath however refers to our temporal rest that God blessed us with to spend dedicated time with Him.

I get my physical rest every night. The word "recreation" is a very interesting word.

 

[listed]

Good point... the moral law was written by God himself on permanent stone.... the ceremonial law was written by Moses on parchment and was temporary. The tablets of stone were kept inside the ark of the covenant, the scrolls of parchment were kept on the outside. God is about details and this little detail speaks volumes about the difference between the two.

Where is this permanent stone you speak about? The Scripture conveys the law as temporary with Galatians 3:19 in addition to the promise to replace it given by Jeremiah.

 

[listed]

Speak your mind... with me, you have safe passage for your thoughts on the matter. I am not a SJW who is triggered by reality.

I's say this is baiting.

 

[listed]

Webster dict.
MOR'AL, a. [L. moralis, from mos, moris, manner.]
1. Relating to the practice, manners or conduct of men as social beings in relation to each other, and with reference to right and wrong. The word moral is applicable to actions that are good or evil, virtuous or vicious, and has reference to the law of God as the standard by which their character is to be determined. The word however may be applied to actions which affect only, or primarily and principally, a person's own happiness.
Keep at the least within the compass of moral actions, which have in them vice or virtue.
Mankind is broken loose from moral bands.
2. Subject to the moral law and capable of moral actions; bound to perform social duties; as a moral agent or being.
3. Supported by the evidence of reason or probability; founded on experience of the ordinary course of things; as moral certainty, distinguished from physical or mathematical certainty or demonstration.
Physical and mathematical certainty may be stiled infallible, and moral certainty may be properly stiled indubitable.
Things of a moral nature may be proved by moral arguments.
4. Conformed to rules of right, or to the divine law respecting social duties; virtuous; just; as when we say, a particular action is not moral.
5. Conformed to law and right in exterior deportment; as, he leads a good moral life.
6. Reasoning or instructing with regard to vice and virtue.
While thou, a moral fool, sitt'st still and cri'st.
7. In general, moral denotes something which respects the conduct of men and their relations as social beings whose actions have a bearing on each others's rights and happiness, and are therefore right or wrong, virtuous or vicious; as moral character; moral views; moral knowledge; moral sentiments; moral maxims; moral approbation; moral doubts; moral justice; moral virtue; moral obligations, etc. Or moral denotes something which respects the intellectual powers of man, as distinct form his physical powers. Thus we speak of moral evidence, moral arguments, moral persuasion, moral certainty, moral force; which operate on the mind.
Moral law, the law of God which prescribes the moral or social duties, and prohibits the transgression of them.
Moral sense, an innate or natural sense of right and wrong; an instinctive perception of what is right or wrong in moral conduct, which approves some actions and disapproves others, independent of education or the knowledge of any positive rule or law. But the existence of any such moral sense is very much doubted.
Moral philosophy, the science of manners and duty; the science which treats of the nature and condition of man as a social being, of the duties which result form his social relations, and the reasons on which they are founded.
MOR'AL, n. Morality; the doctrine or practice of the duties of life. [Not much used.]
1. The doctrine inculcated by a fiction; the accommodation of a fable to form the morals.
The moral is the first business of the poet.
MOR'AL, v.i. To moralize. [Not in use.]

God's 4th Commandment is indeed a Moral law as are all the 10. They give us the KNOWLEDGE of SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS (Good and Evil)

How can you define ceremony as moral? I do understand how activities of a ceremony can be immoral.

 

[listed]

yes he does

I did that a few dozen times .. you a free to prove he did not write it

Just not in real life.

Here it is again... proof of my point

BY THE
DWIGHT L. MOODY
The Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2-17
.
The Fourth Commandment


Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.​

[FONT=&quot]THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.
"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)
It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes;

As promised here is the proof Dl Moody doesn't preach the keeping of the 7th day sabbath:

One should read Weighed and Wanting by D L Moody to see what he is calling the sabbath starting at page 18. It can be found here - Weighed and Wanting by Dwight L. Moody - Free eBook

The material already cited is from The Ten Commandments by DL Moody on the Fundamental Baptist Institute site. Please read the whole section. We find this in the section for the 4th commandment -

A man ought to turn aside from his ordinary employment one day in seven. There are many whose occupation will not permit them to observe Sunday, but they should observe some other day as a Sabbath. Saturday is my day of rest, because I generally preach on Sunday, and I look forward to it as a boy does to a holiday. God knows what we need.

Please note the emphasized.