Insane...

[lilrose]

Archbishop Don Jose Cardoso Sobrinho of Recife excommunicated the doctor, the child's mother and the medical team involved in the procedure.
However, the stepfather was not excommunicated, with Sobrinho telling Globo TV that, "A graver act than (rape) is abortion, to eliminate an innocent life."

What a glib attitude towards sexual abuse of females-this Archibishop is as evil as sexual abuse itself.

 

[DeanM]

From CNN:

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/03/11/brazil.rape.abortion/

 

[DavinMochrie]

The child was not excommunicated, Sobrinho said, because Catholic Church law says minors are exempt from excommunication.
"The church is benevolent when it comes to minors," he told Globo TV.

Hmm...because if their wasn't the rule about minors, she'd be gone too>?


So I guess some sins are subjectively worse than others?

 

[namaste_benry]

I'm very strongly pro-life and normally I'd say abortion is the absolute last resort, and often not even an acceptable choice, but under the circumstances I think performing an abortion is a much lesser evil than forcing a nine year old rape victim to carry her step-father's child to term. How disgusting, that her step-father could have treated her this way. It's also an outrage that the church didn't speak out against him. Why not ex-communicate a child rapist?

 

[Adammi]

And with this news story, I can now say that Christianity is dead.

 

[Im_A]

Archbishop Don Jose Cardoso Sobrinho of Recife excommunicated the doctor, the child's mother and the medical team involved in the procedure.
However, the stepfather was not excommunicated, with Sobrinho telling Globo TV that, "A graver act than (rape) is abortion, to eliminate an innocent life."

What a glib attitude towards sexual abuse of females-this Archibishop is as evil as sexual abuse itself.

why am i not surprised about this? i'm not meaning this to be anti-catholic either. the catholic church has rules and has to administer itself for those who willingly choose to be recognized by the church. i don't agree with the church's ruling on the matter but its not shocking tho.

i can give some sympathy towards the church in a way as well regardless of the fact that i disagree with the ruling the church made. its a tough spot for a church to be in. kind of like being between a rock and a hard spot and no where to go so the only place the church could go would be to affirm the official positions the establishment has set in place.

but i also think it was courageous what the doctor did as well. he did the best thing he could in accordance with the law, regardless of what his church takes a stand on. and i feel bad for that doctor. he had witness the travesty of rape on an innocent victim, abort the life of a baby, which i think it's completely justified while at the same time, very well knowing the consequences the church would give to him for that action. i hope he gets through the emotional mountains he's no doubt going through right now.

these are the types of situations, i just see the uselessness of pointing the finger at the church, the doctor or anything. the only person that deserves to have the finger pointed at is the rapist who created this situation.

 

[MichaelFJF]

And with this news story, I can now say that Christianity is dead.

Well......no.....you can't actually.

 

[Im_A]

Well......no.....you can't actually.

agreed. seems like its easier to point the finger at a church for such a ruling, instead of pointing the person who created the situation to begin with...the rapist.

 

[andreha]

The rapist should read Mat 18:6.

 

[Adammi]

agreed. seems like its easier to point the finger at a church for such a ruling, instead of pointing the person who created the situation to begin with...the rapist.

As a Christian, I believe it is our responsibility to point the finger at ourselves.

 

[QuakerOats]

I disagree with the 'reasoning' behind this whole ordeal. It often seems like the Catholic Church et al are more concerned with potential human life, as opposed to [substantial] human life. Pregnancy at such a young age, before one is 'ready,' not only emotionally or psychologically, but physically as well, is surely a danger to one's health. I think forcing this young girl to go through nine months of pregnancy and then childbirth (and motherhood) would have been tantamount to child abuse. To top it all off, the rapist was not excommunicated, and the comment was made that rape is not as bad as abortion. I simply cannot wrap my head around any of it-it's just not logical at all. 'God's law is above human laws' is a total cop-out in this case, imho. This whole thing just boggles my mind. Kudos to the doctor for not allowing his excommunication to deter his faith. God will be his judge, not any man, or man-made institution.

 

[lilrose]

..and some people wonder why people are becoming secularized...such nonsense,exhibited by the roman catholic church, show how ridiculous some organized religions can be.

 

[MichaelFJF]

As a Christian, I believe it is our responsibility to point the finger at ourselves.

Which is exactly the same as saying "Christianity is dead."

 

[QuakerOats]

Which is exactly the same as saying "Christianity is dead."

Perhaps to you. I don't see it that way. I see Adammi's statement as meaning that he feels that it's a Christian's 'obligation' to take responsibility for one's own actions. If you believe that runs contrary to Christianity in any way, shape or form, please feel free to explain.

 

[D.W.Washburn]

Which is exactly the same as saying "Christianity is dead."

Are you saying the critical self-examination on the part of Christians is equivalent to the death of our faith?

 

[Im_A]

As a Christian, I believe it is our responsibility to point the finger at ourselves.

well that's noble of you bro. but you have nothing to point at with yourself.

sure i disagree with the church's ruling. but one can't expect any church to just think the way i, they or anyone do when, especially such an systematic church as the Roman Catholic Church (that is not meant to be anti-Catholicism). it takes time, sometimes slowly for an institution to progress. we can disagree with many of the things, but you have nothing to point the finger at yourself with as a Christian.

the only fingers that should be pointed, in my opinion at least, is the rapist for creating a situation that:
1. put the church in a tough stance on what to rule on this doctor administering the law because his actions created the situation to where the girl had to seek the doctor out for the abortion, and also created a situation to where the girl felt like she had no other choice but abortion and regardless of where one stands with abortion, that's a terrible position to be put in.
2. put this doctor in the terrible position of having to administer the law regardless of what his church teaches. the doctor had to already know that if he went with this abortion, his actions would thus have consequences with his church.

don't point the finger at yourself when it is not the fault of your religion for what happened in this case. when two things happen that can be seen as travesty. your never going to get a good resolution with this type of situation. i'm a pro-choice person who thinks abortion is an extreme travesty in all the cases it is done with but i believe it is a sober reality that we need, and then to top it all off, this poor girl was raped. how in the world can we come to a good, moral, "holy, righteous" or whatever adjective one wants to call it type of resolution? even if the church wouldn't have excommunicated the doctor, what would that really mean for this horrible situation? absolutely nothing as far as i'm concerned. there's nothing ideal that can be brought from this situation.

i don't know if i'm cynical for saying this, but i'd rather mourn over the fact that the girl was raped, that an abortion was rightfully administered, with good and just cause because her right to reproduce was forcefully violated, taken forgranted and perverted for some sicko's desires, mourn with the doctor who was excommunicated as well as witnessing this whole ordeal, mourn with the church that had to make a ruling that while i disagree with it, a very hard ruling to make and at the same time and stand on the principals it has established itself to believe in, instead of thinking the church should have stood on some "ideal" idea.

 

[Kaonashi]

This case just reinforces the idea that the Catholic Church only cares about the baby until it's born. It seems that it's perfectly ok to molest a child within the Catholic Church and get away with it.

 

[lilrose]

Which is exactly the same as saying "Christianity is dead."

Questioning authority is the beginning of Christianity-Jesus questioned authority.

 

[lilrose]

This case just reinforces the idea that the Catholic Church only cares about the baby until it's born. It seems that it's perfectly ok to molest a child within the Catholic Church and get away with it.

it appears they are condoning sexual abuse of children.

 

[Catherineanne]

Archbishop Don Jose Cardoso Sobrinho of Recife excommunicated the doctor, the child's mother and the medical team involved in the procedure.
However, the stepfather was not excommunicated, with Sobrinho telling Globo TV that, "A graver act than (rape) is abortion, to eliminate an innocent life."

What a glib attitude towards sexual abuse of females-this Archibishop is as evil as sexual abuse itself.

This behaviour in the Roman Church is indeed insane. The church prefers a 9 year old child to die in childbirth, rather than terminate a pregnancy resulting from child abuse.

When the doctors take a judgement that the mother's life is in danger, it is standard medical practice to save her life first, and then the baby's, if at all possible. There was very very little chance in this case of either surviving the birth. Yet the Romans still refuse to see anything other than abortion is always wrong; preferring an act of God to result in two deaths, rather than save one.

And for saying this on OBOB I was banned for a week, and am still locked out of the thread in question. I was told I was arguing against Catholic theology. I wasn't. I was simply stating what is standard medical practice in any civilised country on earth. And what is insane, which is to allow a 9 year old to die in childbirth rather than act to save her life.

One life or neither are the only choices given. To which Rome says, either both or neither, on pain of excommunication. Which means neither. This is indeed insane, and brings the whole of the Roman Catholic church into disrepute.