Infant Baptism

[Natsumi Lam]

I will research peter and titus for context..punctuation matters. Context and subject study matters.

 

[Albion]

He is already claiming the baby is a christian through baptism

That's a different matter.

213
Ask him...you asked for those phrases. I provided exact phrases.

The two words in themselves do not explain what the speaker thinks. Believe it or not, people mean different things when asked if baptism saves and then reply that it does.

There are different and contrasting beliefs about this, and the people on one side and the people on the other side both sometimes say Baptism saves. But for how long? Are there any conditions? Can you be saved and then lose it? Would that mean that you were saved or not?

I tried to make that point earlier, but it did not get through. The more complete issue is outlined in my post 217. Here is the main part of it:

...teaches that if you are baptized as an infant you can do anything and believe anything thereafter and you will be saved for certain, solely because you once received the sacrament of Baptism.

I do not know any church that believes this, which in turn means that rebutting it is pointless. Still, I agree that, when it comes to church bodies, we probably cannot safely ever say "none" or "all."

 

[JacksBratt]

JacksBratt, you stated: "Would Not" Jack you mean to tell me that you will be a Brat, lol and not baptize your baby even if your Doctor told you that your baby will not live throughout the night?

Parents, like these, will be committing without knowing the greatest form of Child abuse for the simple reason of not letting their baby die as a Christian.

Baptism is the first step into Christianity and you would deny your own baby this Grace.

Pan De Vida

Yep. Sprinkling a bit of water on my infant's head is not going to save it from anything.

Like I asked before.. what happens if two infants are in a car, one baptized one not.. and both are killed..

Tell me what happens to the souls of each.

 

[JacksBratt]

JacksBratt, in other words, you are using the line of Cain: "Am I, my brothers, keeper".

Jack, Yes we are our brother's keeper, we do the best by prayer and fasting, and as you stated: by sprinkling it/baby with water.

Jack, you, having the same line/shoes as Cain: "Am I, my brothers, keeper", does not look to good for you, in the long run, you better get a new pair of those blue suede shoes and sing a whole new tune "we are our brother's keeper".

Pan De Vida

Please show scripture that supports this..

When Cain said to God "am I my brothers keeper"? It was in response to God asking him where Able was... Cain was basically telling God... "I'm not his babysitter.. How am I supposed to know where he is"?

God was asking because He knew that Cain had killed his brother.

This has nothing to do with baptism.

 

[GingerBeer]

I will research peter and titus for context..punctuation matters. Context and subject study matters.

Context can mean something good and useful or it can be used as an excuse to deny what is plainly stated. Be careful to use context rightly rather than as a deceptive means of denying what scripture says.

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

Hi Family,

Can you please explain to me the logic and reasoning behind infant baptism?

~Natsumi Lam~

I go to a church that practices it, but I am against it. They say it's a type of parental dedication and a sign of God working in a persons life before they chose God. But I think it presents itself as a religious stumbling block that people can look back to for false hope of salvation. I don't believe baptism is relevant until the individual repents of their sin and turns to Christ Jesus personally.

I know the One Baptism is the pouring out of the Holy Spirit, and that comes from Jesus Christ alone. Water Baptism SHOULD be an outward sign on the Inner Renewal/Circumcision of the Heart, but men make it to be more than it is. Scripture says water baptism only provides a clear conscience, it does NOT purify sins.

Notice the Word of God from Peter:
"this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

Here we see that going down in water SYMBOLIZES the One Baptism which now saves.... which is the filling of the Holy Spirit. Water Baptism is NOT the ONE BAPTISM. It's just the sign of it. That's why John the Baptizer's disciples STILL needed Jesus' Spirit Baptism to be saved, and the thief on the Cross was saved and when to Heaven WITHOUT being dunked in water.

 

[JacksBratt]

Natsumi, YES ONLY JESUS CHRIST GIVES SALVATION! but there are steps that we must adhere to and Baptism is the first step in salvation.

Even Jesus was baptized, so follow His first step regarding salvation that only Jesus Christ can give. FYI Jesus Christ did not preach prior to Him being Baptized only after being baptized. Amen

Pan De Vida

Baptism is not the first step.. Accepting that you are a sinner and need salvation is. Acknowledging that Christ is the messiah and your savior is also part of that.

Christ said "believe in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved"..
Nowhere does it mention baptism and the thief on the cross was not baptized but went to paradise.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

Context can mean something good and useful or it can be used as an excuse to deny what is plainly stated. Be careful to use context rightly rather than as a deceptive means of denying what scripture says.

If i find something that disagrees with your stance are you going to call it an excuse?

 

[Albion]

Why do parents inoculate small children against deadly diseases when maybe they wouldn't contract them anyway? Are the parents wrong to have them immunized?

 

[Natsumi Lam]

Why do parents inoculate small children against deadly diseases when maybe they wouldn't contract them anyway? Are the parents wrong to have them immunized?

So baptism is done for fire protection and what ifs?

 

[GingerBeer]

If i find something that disagrees with your stance are you going to call it an excuse?

Let's see what you claim before deciding if it is deceptive misuse of the text.

 

[Gregory95]

Hi Family,

Can you please explain to me the logic and reasoning behind infant baptism?

~Natsumi Lam~

I ask you are you saved by the physical water the prayers of men or by God

i ask you did the man on the cross next to Christ get off the cross and was baptized(i speak of being put under the water not spiritual baptism ie being born again)

No

Then if the water is what saves how did Christ say you will see paradise

 

[JacksBratt]

The one Church Jesus Christ founded

The one church that Jesus founded....is all those who believe in Him.. That is the church and that is His bride...

There are many denominations to that church..... with many different ideas and theologies...

The one common thread is that they believe in the life, death and resurrection of our Savior and that He is the way the truth and the life...
That is the church founded by Christ.

 

[GingerBeer]

So baptism is done for fire protection and what ifs?

Parents have their children baptised because baptism is good for them. It is the same as feeding children because foods are good for them.

 

[JacksBratt]

Actually that very moment, before Christian baptism began, says a key thing that helps us understand better the disposition of children that die without having been baptized.

Whats that?

 

[JacksBratt]

Not quite sure what you're on about there Jacksy.

Well.... if baptism saves the child... just set up a priest in the maternity ward of all the hospitals... sprinkle them as they come out of delivery... voila.... all Christians...

 

[JacksBratt]

It is not just sprinkling it with water that saves. Water is water. Sprinkling with water will just make someone wet. What saves is God's Word mingled with the water. It is God's Word that is powerful to save.

So, this is special water now?

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

Well.... if baptism saves the child... just set up a priest in the maternity ward of all the hospitals... sprinkle them as they come out of delivery... voila.... all Christians...

Except as I have already suggested, that would just make people wet.

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

So, this is special water now?

Hmm... seems you didn't really read what I wrote.

 

[JacksBratt]

Name one for us that teaches that if you are baptized as a child you can do anything and believe anything thereafter and you will be saved for certain, solely because you once received the sacrament of Baptism. No, I cannot think of one either.

Then.... why the big worry about baptizing a baby.... if it may grow up and chose another path in life...

Again... will..... someone..... please.... tell me....

What happens to a baby, if the parents don't have it baptized and it dies as an infant?????????????