I'm so torn

[ImHisServant]

My heart is really torn on what decision to make here. I want to give you as much info as I can without making you read forever.

My best friend from high school has 3 kids. I love them like they are my own. We grew up in Indiana but are both now in Florida... she came here so we could help her start a new.

The kids all have the same father... but they were never married. They have had a hard life and have lived with us on 3 different occasions when things got out of control. Their mother's name is Patti.

Their father is still in Indiana... he drinks daily, smokes pot, has a long arrest record... mostly drunk driving, has been known to get into fights and uses foul language freely.

Their mother has sole custody and has worked 3rd shift for as long as I can remember. Then sleeps during the day. The kids have easily been able to go and do as they please because of her sleeping. Even awake she is admittedly not strong enough to put her foot down or gain any parental control with them.

This last time they lived with us they hated it. They wanted their freedom back. We had structure and discipline and they did not want that. After over a year of the kids coming here when Patti worked and while she slept... they finally convinced her to let them stay at home by themselves at night. A couple months later, her oldest (13) left to live with her father in Indiana... this was in April. The other 2 children (11 and 6) stayed in Florida and continued to stay home alone.

Patti did not want to admit she was having problems or needed our help. Finally in September she came to us and told us what was going on. She wanted Kari to stay with us and was willing to give us full guardianship so that we could take over her care. She is at a critical age and realized that she was headed down a bad road and wanted a better future for her... but knew she couldn't do the things necessary.

Kari, needless to say, was very resistant... she had a lot of hurt and anger. Said she hated my husband and would never like it here and would fight to get out.

Her grades and attendance in school picked up immediately! After a few of those bad attitude nights... I began doing bible studies with her and my daughter 3 to 4 nights a week. We have chores for her to do every day... but we also have had a lot of fun with her too. We redecorated a room just for her, took her to Seaworld and Bushe Gardens. She began to smile and have fun daily. She does everything we ask her to do without complaint... things appeared to be going really good.

Come to find out... she was only being good for a goal of going home by her birthday (Nov 7th she turned 12) Once that didn't happen, here came the day 1 attitude again. She said "I'd rather live on the streets then to be here". I don't know which is the real Kari - she lies about most things and can act a way to make us think all is good. The Devil wanted that to discourage me - but I'm not altering course... I'm gonna keep pouring God's word into her and loving her.

We don't have that full guardianship yet... it will cost over $1000 and we don't have it right now... but things are heating up and we need to get that done.

Her sister and father in Indiana have talked about getting her up there with them. Saying we have no right to parent her. I can see that from their point of view and understand... but still don't think it's the right thing to do. They want Kari and Kevin up there for Christmas and I think they may try to keep them up there.

A couple of days ago Kari called Krista. Krista was home alone with 2 older boys (9th and 10th grade) She told Kari that she couldn't wait for her to come up for Christmas so she could meet and party with her friends. I could hear the boys saying things about smoking pot tonight. Then Krista told Kari that she smokes, Kari said she has too until she came here. Krista was asking Kari sexual questions, like have you ever done this and that with a boy... Kari answered yes to all these questions. I was shocked!!!

I don't think the father is aware this is going on after school... but regardless... it is the example they have grown up with. He said that if we don't let Kari go there for Christmas that he will get a lawyer and fight to get them.

That's about it... If you need any other details that I may have left out... just ask.

I am torn as to what to do. We love these kids like our very own. Any thoughts/advice greatly appreciated. Please for this whole situation.

 

[Eyes2wardsHeaven]

I dont know what to say, I wish I had some life altering advice to give you but I dont. I will continue to pray for you, and remember God is in control and he knows what he is doing.

 

[Dracus]

My heart is really torn on what decision to make here. I want to give you as much info as I can without making you read forever.

My best friend from high school has 3 kids. I love them like they are my own. We grew up in Indiana but are both now in Florida... she came here so we could help her start a new.

The kids all have the same father... but they were never married. They have had a hard life and have lived with us on 3 different occasions when things got out of control. Their mother's name is Patti.

Their father is still in Indiana... he drinks daily, smokes pot, has a long arrest record... mostly drunk driving, has been known to get into fights and uses foul language freely.

Their mother has sole custody and has worked 3rd shift for as long as I can remember. Then sleeps during the day. The kids have easily been able to go and do as they please because of her sleeping. Even awake she is admittedly not strong enough to put her foot down or gain any parental control with them.

This last time they lived with us they hated it. They wanted their freedom back. We had structure and discipline and they did not want that. After over a year of the kids coming here when Patti worked and while she slept... they finally convinced her to let them stay at home by themselves at night. A couple months later, her oldest (13) left to live with her father in Indiana... this was in April. The other 2 children (11 and 6) stayed in Florida and continued to stay home alone.

Patti did not want to admit she was having problems or needed our help. Finally in September she came to us and told us what was going on. She wanted Kari to stay with us and was willing to give us full guardianship so that we could take over her care. She is at a critical age and realized that she was headed down a bad road and wanted a better future for her... but knew she couldn't do the things necessary.

Kari, needless to say, was very resistant... she had a lot of hurt and anger. Said she hated my husband and would never like it here and would fight to get out.

Her grades and attendance in school picked up immediately! After a few of those bad attitude nights... I began doing bible studies with her and my daughter 3 to 4 nights a week. We have chores for her to do every day... but we also have had a lot of fun with her too. We redecorated a room just for her, took her to Seaworld and Bushe Gardens. She began to smile and have fun daily. She does everything we ask her to do without complaint... things appeared to be going really good.

Come to find out... she was only being good for a goal of going home by her birthday (Nov 7th she turned 12) Once that didn't happen, here came the day 1 attitude again. She said "I'd rather live on the streets then to be here". I don't know which is the real Kari - she lies about most things and can act a way to make us think all is good. The Devil wanted that to discourage me - but I'm not altering course... I'm gonna keep pouring God's word into her and loving her.

We don't have that full guardianship yet... it will cost over $1000 and we don't have it right now... but things are heating up and we need to get that done.

Her sister and father in Indiana have talked about getting her up there with them. Saying we have no right to parent her. I can see that from their point of view and understand... but still don't think it's the right thing to do. They want Kari and Kevin up there for Christmas and I think they may try to keep them up there.

A couple of days ago Kari called Krista. Krista was home alone with 2 older boys (9th and 10th grade) She told Kari that she couldn't wait for her to come up for Christmas so she could meet and party with her friends. I could hear the boys saying things about smoking pot tonight. Then Krista told Kari that she smokes, Kari said she has too until she came here. Krista was asking Kari sexual questions, like have you ever done this and that with a boy... Kari answered yes to all these questions. I was shocked!!!

I don't think the father is aware this is going on after school... but regardless... it is the example they have grown up with. He said that if we don't let Kari go there for Christmas that he will get a lawyer and fight to get them.

That's about it... If you need any other details that I may have left out... just ask.

I am torn as to what to do. We love these kids like our very own. Any thoughts/advice greatly appreciated. Please for this whole situation.

Hey,

To start off, sorry if this ends up being a long read, but I have to write a lot to ensure I get what I need to get across.

It sounds like a tough situation way above my years, and i've never come close to dealing with anything like this, but i'll try and give the best help I can.

You said that you understand both sides of the argument, that's good, hopefully being able to do that can show you more answers than any of us can in the long run...

It sounds like because the kids had no real control from their mother due to the sleeping (i'm not trying to blame her, I understand why she can't look after them due to the working hours) they have no real sense of what is harmful for them and what isn't, and that is probably a key factor in the problems... I can't really say more than that because i'm not involved in the situation, so I can't really know.

From what you describe of the father, it sounds like he is an extremely bad influence on the children (nearly definately a factor for their behaviour). If all the behaviour you mentioned can be proved, then I somehow doubt that he stands strong grounds for custody, as going into that situation would be extremely bad for Kari (which is shown by the details of the phone conversation you told us about, and by what you've said, i'm guessing that Krista is the child who went to stay with the father?)

Out of interest, what happened to the third child? Because I can't find anything else in what you've written, i'm presuming s/he stayed with the mother?

As far as a Lawyer Vs You battle would go, chances are you're not very likely to win, as you don't have the full guardianship that you need... I'm not a lawyer so I may be wrong, but that is how things appear to me, but don't take my word for it.

As for which side of Kari is actually the real side, I guess the only person who could ever truly know at the moment is her (and God). You mention that she did bible studies with your child, did that ever lead her to become being saved by God? (I think this detail was missed out, I couldn't find it, and I really don't want to be making presumptions here.)

Personally from what i've read, I don't believe that the children going to the father will do the children any good, but at the same time, they can't see that what he's doing is potentiall harmful either.

I really don't know what to suggest, but I suggest thinking any course of action through before taking it at this stage.

I'm sorry if this hasn't been that helpful,
Danny.

P.S. - If you could fill in the missing details I mentioned I might be able to provide a small amount of help?

 

[ImHisServant]

Kari (which is shown by the details of the phone conversation you told us about, and by what you've said, i'm guessing that Krista is the child who went to stay with the father?)

Out of interest, what happened to the third child? Because I can't find anything else in what you've written, i'm presuming s/he stayed with the mother?

Yes... Krista is the one with her father

The 3rd child is Kevin... he is six. He comes here to sleep at his bedtime, then Patti picks him up after school and takes him home for about 4-5 hours a day. She says she wants to continue parenting him at this time as he is still young and manageable enough for her. So they both are here at night, Kari still sees Kevin on a regular basis... and her mom comes here daily as well.

 

[Dracus]

Hey,

Thank you for answering, one last question - was Kari saved by doing the bible study with you and you're child?

Danny

 

[ImHisServant]

Hey,

Thank you for answering, one last question - was Kari saved by doing the bible study with you and you're child?

Danny

I'm not sure where her heart stands with that. She has went to church with us in the past and at present... says she thinks she is... but not sure. I thought that Krista was too - they both are good at convincing us by their words and actions of one thing... but then secretly have other motives so it's hard to say.

 

[Hispath]

WOW,

God Bless you and your family! This would be a really tough situation. My one concern is about your own family and your marriage. Is it strong enough to go through such an ordeal? Would this cause problems of such magnitude for you and your family, that it would make the whole situation worse?

If after talking and praying, you decide it would be ok, from a legal stand point, you need to have the mom give you guardianship. That would be the easiest approach for starters. I believe that deep down in the 12 year olds heart, she knows what is best for her and appreciates what you've done for her. Though I'm sure she doesn't let you know that, especially with still having all that outside influence from her other siblings. I know where I live, we have what they call a pro se clinic. It is a free legal clinic to help you file paper work with the courts for domestic situations. This would greatly cut down on your fees.
I'm not a lawyer, but have been in law enforcement for 18 years and have been two divorces and one custody battle for my son, which I won.

You should keep a note book, if your not already, of everything that is going on. Times, dates, who said what, did what, both positive and negatives. That way if things end up going to court, you will have the specifics needed, and not guesstimates.

God Bless you all!

Take Care,
Jim

 

[nsmith12916]

Ah, being a teen I am skillful in the art of lying...sadly, so remember...DON'T take their words as true. Make sure you think of those alterior motives... I have no experience with these things, but I recommend that you try to keep the kids. The father seems like the kind of guy that might just run off one day (No offense to him) an leave the kids. All of the kids are still young and maleable, (most especially Kevin) so you might want to stay working on the Bible studies, and help to teach them more of right and wrong. Try Veggie tales. If the dad doesn't have much of a job or income, and is a heavy drinker/pothead, his case probably won't hold up in court much. Are you trying to adopt? Well, I wish you all the best.

Don't give up... God has the answers to your problems!

 

[MeekOne]

You really have your hands full there. I understand that you want to do the best thing for the children, and I commend you for that. My advice is pretty simple, but I can guarantee that it will bring the results that God's will has in store. Seriously do not stop getting on your knees and praying for this situation. Everything happens with prayer. Have the children pray with you about this situation as well, and don't hold back your feelings when praying out loud. Help them to see how much you want to help, and how much this has affected you and your husband, not to lay a guilt trip, but just so they understand that their actions affect people.

Continue reading the Bible with them...maybe looking up some verses that are appropriate for sexual sins and abusing the body such as with drugs or alcohol.

Then, I would set some more guidlines. Find out where and when she has had time to have relations with these boys. Also, if there is talk about smoking pot tonight. Keep her indoors tonight by telling her you have something better planned, and if that doesn't work, tell her that you do not want her going anywhere tonight and explain exactly why.

I hope this has helped some. I know you cannot keep her prisoner or anything, but I believe that if you stay on top of this situation, not only will she and the other kids have a better chance at life, but things will ease up for your family and the tension should get better. As for the real mother and father, has anyone called the authorities and told them what type of home situation these children are being brought up into?

I am sending up a prayer for you now.

 

[Daughter of His]

I wish I had some advice but I'm not a lawyer. Even if you keep her and the Dad sues and gets her you will have had time to show her God's love, and His word never returns void. God will not waste your efforts, even if you don't see the outcome initially. I hope she will understand how much you love her. I'll be praying for you and your husband especially to have wisdom in this situation. God bless you abundantly ! Debbie

 

[ImHisServant]

Continue reading the Bible with them...maybe looking up some verses that are appropriate for sexual sins and abusing the body such as with drugs or alcohol.

Then, I would set some more guidlines. Find out where and when she has had time to have relations with these boys. Also, if there is talk about smoking pot tonight. Keep her indoors tonight by telling her you have something better planned, and if that doesn't work, tell her that you do not want her going anywhere tonight and explain exactly why.

These things were going on at the father's house in Indiana... not here. But Kari did say she was doing those things while living with her mom. She knows she can not do that here. That is why she doesn't want to be here I believe.

 

[bill'swife]

gosh...I don't know what to say...

It doesn't seem like the dad has a leg to stand on really...I mean what leverage would he have in court other than he's the blood father...He sounds to me like he's an unfit parent. I'd hate to see the kids going to foster care...it seems you are willing to take care of all of them all, but they don't wanna be there.

YOu have a good heart and I will definately pray for this whole situation and everyone involved...God Bless...

 

[MeekOne]

These things were going on at the father's house in Indiana... not here. But Kari did say she was doing those things while living with her mom. She knows she can not do that here. That is why she doesn't want to be here I believe.

Well, that makes sense. But you would be the best thing for her life, which is more important than what she wants, really. Sin is addicting, and it is the biggest lie going because once someone has tasted that sin, they feel it is fun...and it is for a while (even the Bible says that)...but then it ruins your life. Please continue to hold onto Jesus, and let Him give you the strength you need to pull this situation together. I believe that if you can raise this girl, she will thank you for it later.

Practical advice would be to see to it that the authorities know what kind of father he is to these children, and I'm sure the mother is trying, but she knows that you would be a better solution for her children, so have her help you in that regard. Keep the authorities involved when it comes to this so that they can see that you are the better choice for parenting these children. I will continue to pray the Lord's strength in yours and your family's lives.

 

[BlestVessel]

I concur with MeekOne and HisPath. Keeping record in case of a legal situation is wise. Praying both with the children and just you and your husband will help strengthen you and prepare you for what God is doing and will very likely encourage the children. Pouring out your heart to God in the presence of the people you love is powerful and beautiful, not that altering them is to be your intention, to sway them by what you pray, but that will benefit and bless them greatly to understand your relationship with God a little better. This certainly does require discernment, so perhaps the first thing you might pray with the children beside you is: Lord, teach me what to pray, teach my heart the truth from your perspective and not my own, and teach my lips restraint.

As far as your decisions go in this blessed ordeal, keep your ears open to what God needs to teach you. As always, make time to be with God in quiet, reading His Word and just listening for His voice. Trust that He will teach you which way you should go, perservere in that no matter how hopeless it looks, and expect that whatever the result, He will be glorified. Whether or not you're to keep the children is NOT your concern because if you are to keep them, God will open that door and you will continue in pursuit of guardianship, knowing that it is the Lord Almighty who can harden or soften the hearts of those you deal with. All of this is temporary, so remind yourself to look to the eternal. LOVE. Love always, love your husband, love the children, love the children's parents, and in this, you will be obedient to God, and He will make a way for His will to be accomplished-whether that means opening up the sea or letting you wander the desert 40 years to reach the promised land. You are headed for Home one way or the other, and oh, the LOVE that awaits you there! Others may call this a crisis and tragedy, but we see in the Word what God does with so-called crisis and tragedy. This is first and foremost, yet another BEAUTIFUL opportunity to serve Him, putting Him above all your anxieties, all fears, concerns, hurts, and wholeheartedly pursuing Him with all yourself, in all relationships. To me, "turning the other cheek" means trusting Him to defend you and defend His name without a pressing need to fight to defend yourself and your plans. You will make plans, but be always on the lookout for His directing them-which doesn't mean the easy route; the route of obedience is both blessing and blessed sacrifice (blessed sacrifice, of course, being both eternally sweet and temporarily bitter to our taste). Remember how temporary this is and when you pray, step outside of the situation and hold close: You are an eternal creature and this is but one small moment in time, you are valued-not because of what you do or who you are in yourself, but because of Who you belong to, you have at your disposal the power which you have received in Christ-that which you have "failed" in, you have either done in your own power or your "failure" is truly the success of what was meant to occur, ask for God's will and BELIEVE for it, even if it makes NO sense to your limited perspective. Surround yourself with people who will remind you when your flesh wants to forget: God is in control. Surrender.

I love you and you know I'm here for you to pray for you and tell you what you already know. We'll pray and excitedly wait to see what God will do. Look at our Solution, not the problem and all will be well.

-April

 

[Daughter of His]

I wanted to bump this thread up, I think it's important.

 

[ImHisServant]

UPDATE

We confronted Kari about her conversation with Krista... at first she denied... then when she had no other options... admitted to it. The mother called her bio Dad and Krista to inform him of what was going on and he was drunk and angry. He didn't believe us and defended Krista. He simply wouldn't listen to anything she or I had to say... we told him that we did not want Kari and Kevin going up there at Christmas so he basically said he is getting a lawyer and fighting us to get them perminately. I called Patti's sister who is a Christian... she knows the history of Patti and the Bio dad and has always wanted those kids pulled out. We will have the support of her whole family if this goes to court. (I have known her family since I was 14)

That's the update for now... thanks to all for your prayers... keep them coming as this is only the beginning of a long journey.

Before talking to Patti's sister when I felt literally sick after the convo with the father... I opened up the Bible and the first place I read was Psalm 3... God knew exactly what I needed.

 

[mysparrow]

there should be a juvenile place there, juvenile court etc, where your friend can indeed sign guardianship over to you, temporary custody , or something legal , showing she is in your care, and you are responsible for her , that way when the dad , ( if he does ) which i doubt , trys to do something legally all of that will be on record, they will ask you for all pertinant info at the juvenile court place, i dont know how it works where you are, but i went through much the same thing with my middle daughter, she brought her daughter to me , needing my help, then proceeded to go on her merry way, of living however she wanted to live, telling me she had to get herself together. Keep the child in the structured atmosphere , she may rebel right now , but in the end if you stand your ground for what is best spiritually for her, she will thank you for it . It is her eternity at stake, and that is what must be thought of first. Im praying for you

 

[MeekOne]

UPDATE

We confronted Kari about her conversation with Krista... at first she denied... then when she had no other options... admitted to it. The mother called her bio Dad and Krista to inform him of what was going on and he was drunk and angry. He didn't believe us and defended Krista. He simply wouldn't listen to anything she or I had to say... we told him that we did not want Kari and Kevin going up there at Christmas so he basically said he is getting a lawyer and fighting us to get them perminately. I called Patti's sister who is a Christian... she knows the history of Patti and the Bio dad and has always wanted those kids pulled out. We will have the support of her whole family if this goes to court. (I have known her family since I was 14)

That's the update for now... thanks to all for your prayers... keep them coming as this is only the beginning of a long journey.

Before talking to Patti's sister when I felt literally sick after the convo with the father... I opened up the Bible and the first place I read was Psalm 3... God knew exactly what I needed.

It sounds like God is going to pull you through all of this, and you relying on Him is the most important thing here. He will give you His strength, especially when you stick close to the scriptures.

A bit more advice for now, if I were to bet (which I don't), but if I were....my money would be that the father will not be getting a lawyer to get permanent custody. My hunch is he is happy being a drunk and would probably prefer to spend his money on that rather than a lawyer. I also do not believe that he believes that he would win his children back being that he lives in a drunken stupor most of the time. Just don't give that too much worry.

I do however, believe that you should continue trying to get custody, and document every single thing that you do to get it, document every single major thing that happens in the lives of the children while they are with you especially the good, document when he is drunk, document how the mother is handling the situation, and document the things that are being said between everyone. This cannot be stressed enough, believe me you will be glad you did, and it will help you get through this. I will be praying for you that you can help raise these children in a God loving home.

 

[nsmith12916]

UPDATE

We confronted Kari about her conversation with Krista... at first she denied... then when she had no other options... admitted to it. The mother called her bio Dad and Krista to inform him of what was going on and he was drunk and angry. He didn't believe us and defended Krista. He simply wouldn't listen to anything she or I had to say... we told him that we did not want Kari and Kevin going up there at Christmas so he basically said he is getting a lawyer and fighting us to get them perminately. I called Patti's sister who is a Christian... she knows the history of Patti and the Bio dad and has always wanted those kids pulled out. We will have the support of her whole family if this goes to court. (I have known her family since I was 14)

That's the update for now... thanks to all for your prayers... keep them coming as this is only the beginning of a long journey.

Before talking to Patti's sister when I felt literally sick after the convo with the father... I opened up the Bible and the first place I read was Psalm 3... God knew exactly what I needed.

God always does know what you need, even before you do... Funny guy, God is...

I will be praying for you. As others have said, document things as you go along. In the off-chance the Bio. dad can get a good lawyer (and he'll need one to win custody seeing as he's a drunkard) it does not seem as he will have to much of a case to make. I don't see any way that a judge would rule in his favor, due to his actions that you've described.

It's great that you have the support of your friend's entire family. That'll help give you strength if and when you do go to court. Have no fear, because the Lord will stand by your side, and is watching over you, your friend, and her children. It's obvious that you love these kids like your own. I find that to be something truly beautiful.

For nothing is impossible with God
- Luke 1:37

 

[breatheprayer]

I went through a mess some years ago that had some similarities to your situation. My husband and I prayed daily together about it. I do know that you have to wait patiently on the Lord, He will come through. I remember my husband and I prayed and pleaded with God that someday soon the only worries we would have were our bills. He answered that, and now, that is basically the only worries we have!
Put all your trust in the Lord! I will pray for you.