I'm not sure I'm a Christian anymore

[FireDragon76]

I mean, I'm baptized but... I'm not sure I really believe. Going to church just doesn't interest me, and I don't believe in a God that has churchgoing as a mandate for my life. I'm not even sure anymore what God I believe in.

I suppose I've arrived at this place realizing I have a lot of disgust. Politically, I don't fit in with either left or right. I believe strongly in civil liberties, I'm anti-authoritarian and don't believe in telling people what is the best way to live, because I believe those sorts of questions are best answered by the individual. I'm very unhappy with how Christians have handled the LGBT issue- it goes against my live and let live attitude, and my sensitivity towards my fellow human beings.

Most of all, I believe in compassion- that is my measure of somebody's morality, and I'm not sure this is really a Christian value at the end of the day. Compassion is more important than all the creeds in the world, and I'd mark somebody as closer to the Kingdom who had it, than somebody of faith who did not. I don't see many Christians willing to go the extra mile to understand somebody different from them. I see a lot of worship of religious tradition and orthodoxy over caring about real human beings.

We really don't know God, he's an incomprehensible mystery. The classical western theology is absurd, even ridiculous, and can't be taken seriously by intelligent people. Believing in an all-powerful benevolent God is simply absurd. This is properly the "Hidden God" spoken of by Luther. The God that brings anxiety rather than comfort, or more often, delusional projections (the angry God of many authoritarians). God is hidden and not seen. So, how can you love the God you don't see when you don't love the brother you do see? (the whole point of James passage is relevant, denouncing religiosity for its own sake) So the way I see it, Christians, as followers of Jesus, should be a humanistic religion more like Confucianism or Taoism, with God and his will left a mystery, and focused on the human predicament.

 

[graceandpeace]

I can relate to much of what you wrote. I don't really know what would help.

I'm a Christian, but I'm not for sure my religion is true, & I'm reluctant to condemn those on other paths. I care about tradition, but I believe compassion is more important. I don't know how to relate to Christians who support politicians who espouse homophobia or xenophobia, or who want to bomb to see if the sand will glow. The rhetoric is toxic, & when Christians support it will glee...well, I'm disgusted as well. (I don't give a free pass to the other end of the spectrum, but it's the far right that troubles me the most.)

The level of Christian hysteria about the LGBT community is a real faith-killer for me. Attitudes are changing, & some Christians are supportive, but the demonization of "the other" is ongoing with many & the effects of that will be long-term. (Even when I was not supportive, I voted against banning SSM, so again the hysteria over this is too much for me.)

I hope you find peace, whatever that means.

 

[SnowyMacie]

I can relate to much of what you wrote. I don't really know what would help.

I'm a Christian, but I'm not for sure my religion is true, & I'm reluctant to condemn those on other paths. I care about tradition, but I believe compassion is more important. I don't know how to relate to Christians who support politicians who espouse homophobia or xenophobia, or who want to bomb to see if the sand will glow. The rhetoric is toxic, & when Christians support it will glee...well, I'm disgusted as well. (I don't give a free pass to the other end of the spectrum, but it's the far right that troubles me the most.)

The level of Christian hysteria about the LGBT community is a real faith-killer for me. Attitudes are changing, & some Christians are supportive, but the demonization of "the other" is ongoing with many & the effects of that will be long-term. (Even when I was not supportive, I voted against banning SSM, so again the hysteria over this is too much for me.)

I hope you find peace, whatever that means.

Pretty much the same here.

 

[FireDragon76]

Local Lutherans and Episcopalians are conservative, so I find it hard to get anything out of the services. They don't preach much about the topics that really offend me but then again, they don't preach about much that really inspires me.

There is one UCC church near me that is liberal but honestly I don't really care for mainline liberal Protestant churches that much, either. Mostly because politically I am not sure I'm a liberal, and those churches tend to get involved in liberal politics. I suppose I'm much more libertarian or anarchist oriented (the local Lutheran pastor told me basically I was an anarchist from the discussions we've had- I just mistrust authority, and rightly so. Power corrupts). I view the gay issue as just an extension of that. I bet there are a lot of younger people that are exactly like that too.

 

[Martinius]

I mean, I'm baptized but... I'm not sure I really believe. Going to church just doesn't interest me, and I don't believe in a God that has churchgoing as a mandate for my life. I'm not even sure anymore what God I believe in.

I suppose I've arrived at this place realizing I have a lot of disgust. Politically, I don't fit in with either left or right. I believe strongly in civil liberties, I'm anti-authoritarian and don't believe in telling people what is the best way to live, because I believe those sorts of questions are best answered by the individual. I'm very unhappy with how Christians have handled the LGBT issue- it goes against my live and let live attitude, and my sensitivity towards my fellow human beings.

Most of all, I believe in compassion- that is my measure of somebody's morality, and I'm not sure this is really a Christian value at the end of the day. Compassion is more important than all the creeds in the world, and I'd mark somebody as closer to the Kingdom who had it, than somebody of faith who did not. I don't see many Christians willing to go the extra mile to understand somebody different from them. I see a lot of worship of religious tradition and orthodoxy over caring about real human beings.

We really don't know God, he's an incomprehensible mystery. The classical western theology is absurd, even ridiculous, and can't be taken seriously by intelligent people. Believing in an all-powerful benevolent God is simply absurd. This is properly the "Hidden God" spoken of by Luther. The God that brings anxiety rather than comfort, or more often, delusional projections (the angry God of many authoritarians). God is hidden and not seen. So, how can you love the God you don't see when you don't love the brother you do see? (the whole point of James passage is relevant, denouncing religiosity for its own sake) So the way I see it, Christians, as followers of Jesus, should be a humanistic religion more like Confucianism or Taoism, with God and his will left a mystery, and focused on the human predicament.

I would say that, unlike most Christians, you actually get it. God never, ever says that we must go to a church, nor use specific formulas and rubrics. Those are all man made inventions. Creeds are human inventions, and are a hopelessly inadequate way to define faith.

You are also right that we don't know God as, yes again, God is incomprehensible. Anyone claiming that they can tell you specifics about God is delusional.

And yes, Christianity is, and should be lived as, a humanistic religion. Jesus was the greatest humanist of all time, and yet people who reject compassion and caring and forgiveness think they are his true followers. The Letter of James tells it like it should be, but most of us conveniently ignore it, as we do most of what Jesus does and says in the Gospel.

Don't feel like you are "losing faith", when it sounds like you are really finding it. Listen to the Spirit at work within you.

 

[MrsSeptemberPenguin]

I hear you on that. When I first joined this forum 12 years ago I was a very "strong" Christian who believed in all the fundamentalist beliefs. I have made a few appearances here since then, but mostly because I'm still searching. The beliefs I used to hold just don't fit anymore, and those I now that believe that way make me cringe. For a long time I felt that if I didn't believe that way then I couldn't possibly be a Christian. Now... I don't what I believe other than that I'm fairly certain there is a God. I think that is what this forum is here for. To search, to vent, to be ourselves and share our struggles and realize that maybe it's ok to believe a different way than what we've been taught. I haven't been to church in years, and I really don't plan to return. I also don't believe the Bible is 100% without error and I don't believe in a lot of things that you supposedly have to believe in to be a "Christian". I hope you find the path that works for you, and know what ever path that is, it's ok

 

[Martinius]

I hear you on that. When I first joined this forum 12 years ago I was a very "strong" Christian who believed in all the fundamentalist beliefs. I have made a few appearances here since then, but mostly because I'm still searching. The beliefs I used to hold just don't fit anymore, and those I now that believe that way make me cringe. For a long time I felt that if I didn't believe that way then I couldn't possibly be a Christian. Now... I don't what I believe other than that I'm fairly certain there is a God. I think that is what this forum is here for. To search, to vent, to be ourselves and share our struggles and realize that maybe it's ok to believe a different way than what we've been taught. I haven't been to church in years, and I really don't plan to return. I also don't believe the Bible is 100% without error and I don't believe in a lot of things that you supposedly have to believe in to be a "Christian". I hope you find the path that works for you, and know what ever path that is, it's ok

Regarding not believing a "lot of things that you supposedly have to believe": First, Jesus requires us to believe in (have faith and trust in) the One who sent him, God. Every other "belief" is a creation of men. Second, no one can force you to "believe" something just because they tell you that you must do so. I really don't see how you can "believe" by command; it requires one's honest and heartfelt consent.

You can spend hours and days on these forums arguing about the Bible. One reason is that some people place the entire basis of their faith on it being literal and without error of any kind, and therefore being an accurate presentation of history and scientific fact. The basis of our faith should instead be the teachings and example of Jesus, and Scripture is a means to learn what that is.

Shedding the things that appeared to make you a "strong" Christian at one time may, and actually should, make you a better Christian, one who lives closer to the Gospel.

 

[Julie.S]

I am in the same boat. I believe in a higher being and I call it God but I don't feel a need to go to church anymore to worship I can do that with prayer. I feel at peace with God in this way.

 

[Martinius]

I am in the same boat. I believe in a higher being and I call it God but I don't feel a need to go to church anymore to worship I can do that with prayer. I feel at peace with God in this way.

You are among the growing number of un-churched religious. When I moved to another part of the country, in the bible-belt, the first time I met a new neighbor I was asked "Are you church people?" I was admittedly taken aback, as I had never heard nor been asked that question before. I wasn't really sure what was meant. Being new in the community, I figured out they were assuming we had not joined a local church and were ready to recruit us for theirs. To them, it was not how good a Christian you were, or if you were a Christian, but what congregation you were members of. I think that view of faith places priorities in the wrong order and emphasizes "belonging" to a denomination rather than living one's faith.

Conversely, but not to argue with your view, I have come to realize that one cannot be a Christian alone. Faith is always communal and takes into account others. One can say that their faith is between them and God, but how we live it has to involve our dealings and relationships with other people. Even the early monks and desert fathers interacted with others, taught others, served as examples for others. In other words, how we express our faith is shown by how we treat our fellow women and men. This has become the core of my faith, over and above any doctrines, creeds, rituals, rubrics, sacraments, etc. Much of what people and churches consider important and even critical seems, in my view, to obscure and detract from what is truly essential.

 

[Hieronymus]

I can relate to much of what you wrote. I don't really know what would help.

I'm a Christian, but I'm not for sure my religion is true, & I'm reluctant to condemn those on other paths.

That's because you shouldn't, as a Christian.

 

[Hieronymus]

I mean, I'm baptized but... I'm not sure I really believe. Going to church just doesn't interest me, and I don't believe in a God that has churchgoing as a mandate for my life.

Neither do i.
But i don't think God does either.

I'm not even sure anymore what God I believe in.

God of the Bible i hope...

 

[Hieronymus]

You are among the growing number of un-churched religious. When I moved to another part of the country, in the bible-belt, the first time I met a new neighbor I was asked "Are you church people?" I was admittedly taken aback, as I had never heard nor been asked that question before. I wasn't really sure what was meant. Being new in the community, I figured out they were assuming we had not joined a local church and were ready to recruit us for theirs. To them, it was not how good a Christian you were, or if you were a Christian, but what congregation you were members of. I think that view of faith places priorities in the wrong order and emphasizes "belonging" to a denomination rather than living one's faith.

That's just horrible...

Conversely, but not to argue with your view, I have come to realize that one cannot be a Christian alone. Faith is always communal and takes into account others.

I agree, but i have not yet found more than one 'brother' in real life...

 

[Julie.S]

You are among the growing number of un-churched religious. When I moved to another part of the country, in the bible-belt, the first time I met a new neighbor I was asked "Are you church people?" I was admittedly taken aback, as I had never heard nor been asked that question before. I wasn't really sure what was meant. Being new in the community, I figured out they were assuming we had not joined a local church and were ready to recruit us for theirs. To them, it was not how good a Christian you were, or if you were a Christian, but what congregation you were members of. I think that view of faith places priorities in the wrong order and emphasizes "belonging" to a denomination rather than living one's faith.

Conversely, but not to argue with your view, I have come to realize that one cannot be a Christian alone. Faith is always communal and takes into account others. One can say that their faith is between them and God, but how we live it has to involve our dealings and relationships with other people. Even the early monks and desert fathers interacted with others, taught others, served as examples for others. In other words, how we express our faith is shown by how we treat our fellow women and men. This has become the core of my faith, over and above any doctrines, creeds, rituals, rubrics, sacraments, etc. Much of what people and churches consider important and even critical seems, in my view, to obscure and detract from what is truly essential.

I do have a church that I go to and my family is Christian. The church I go to is not one I like though as much now. There is almost no community and people just go to go I think.

 

[FireDragon76]

I've just come to the realization that creeds can be impoverishing. Not to say there isn't something potentially profound in them, but usually they are merely accepted and uses badges of who is in and out.

I have come to be highly skeptical of spiritual experiences, and just about every other Protestant church seems dependent on them- that, or moralism (also something I have issues with, since conventional morality is again, inadequate). When people start talking about God as an anthropomorphic being, I can't take that seriously. God is most often a wish-fulfillment. That isn't to say I don't believe in God, I just realize most of the times the things we think about God come from ourselves and our own twisted desires.

 

[Mustaphile]

I've just come to the realization that creeds can be impoverishing. Not to say there isn't something potentially profound in them, but usually they are merely accepted and uses badges of who is in and out.

I have come to be highly skeptical of spiritual experiences, and just about every other Protestant church seems dependent on them- that, or moralism (also something I have issues with, since conventional morality is again, inadequate). When people start talking about God as an anthropomorphic being, I can't take that seriously. God is most often a wish-fulfillment. That isn't to say I don't believe in God, I just realize most of the times the things we think about God come from ourselves and our own twisted desires.

I think what you are going through is a good thing. It wasn't until I had gone 'through the desert' and felt like God had left me that I came to the place I'm at now. At my lowest I threw my hands in the air, metaphorically, and proclaimed that I could know nothing of God, nor truth, and that the only thing I had was my own subjective experience to draw from, as flawed as that might be. I declared to God that all I can do is trust my own heart and live life true to myself, as I defined that truth. In the aftermath of that, God became greater than I had allowed him to be. Jesus became the example of a man living by his own truth, and paying the consequences of being true to himself. We must be prepared to die daily for our principles. For only through a principled life can we navigate this subjective experience. All the answers lie within you. Trust yourself and believe in the good you have found through Jesus Christ. Christ lives in all of humanity because we are all Sons of God. It is in how we react to our vulnerability in the face of the almighty that defines us as human beings. Do we rise to the challenge of personal responsibility for our creative power? Or do we become resentful and arrogant through blaming others for our predicament? These two paths lie before us. Circumstance doesn't make the man, it reveals him to himself.

 

[JoeP222w]

I mean, I'm baptized but... I'm not sure I really believe. Going to church just doesn't interest me, and I don't believe in a God that has churchgoing as a mandate for my life. I'm not even sure anymore what God I believe in.

I suppose I've arrived at this place realizing I have a lot of disgust. Politically, I don't fit in with either left or right. I believe strongly in civil liberties, I'm anti-authoritarian and don't believe in telling people what is the best way to live, because I believe those sorts of questions are best answered by the individual. I'm very unhappy with how Christians have handled the LGBT issue- it goes against my live and let live attitude, and my sensitivity towards my fellow human beings.

Most of all, I believe in compassion- that is my measure of somebody's morality, and I'm not sure this is really a Christian value at the end of the day. Compassion is more important than all the creeds in the world, and I'd mark somebody as closer to the Kingdom who had it, than somebody of faith who did not. I don't see many Christians willing to go the extra mile to understand somebody different from them. I see a lot of worship of religious tradition and orthodoxy over caring about real human beings.

We really don't know God, he's an incomprehensible mystery. The classical western theology is absurd, even ridiculous, and can't be taken seriously by intelligent people. Believing in an all-powerful benevolent God is simply absurd. This is properly the "Hidden God" spoken of by Luther. The God that brings anxiety rather than comfort, or more often, delusional projections (the angry God of many authoritarians). God is hidden and not seen. So, how can you love the God you don't see when you don't love the brother you do see? (the whole point of James passage is relevant, denouncing religiosity for its own sake) So the way I see it, Christians, as followers of Jesus, should be a humanistic religion more like Confucianism or Taoism, with God and his will left a mystery, and focused on the human predicament.

"I mean, I'm baptized but... I'm not sure I really believe"

Being baptized does not make a person a Christian.
---------
"Going to church just doesn't interest me, and I don't believe in a God that has churchgoing as a mandate for my life."

Going to church does not make a Christian. However God does command that we are not to forsake the assembling together.

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"I'm not even sure anymore what God I believe in."

Then it sounds like you are not a Christian and possibly never were, if you believe that there are multiple gods.

-------
"Most of all, I believe in compassion- that is my measure of somebody's morality, and I'm not sure this is really a Christian value at the end of the day."

Then someone has really deceived you on what being a Christian is. One of the central ideals of the Christian faith is compassion. Do Christians fail at compassion? Unfortunately, yes.

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"I'm anti-authoritarian and don't believe in telling people what is the best way to live, because I believe those sorts of questions are best answered by the individual. I'm very unhappy with how Christians have handled the LGBT issue- it goes against my live and let live attitude, and my sensitivity towards my fellow human beings."

This is a very unbiblical viewpoint. God commands us to submit to the authorities place above us (Roman 13). God also tells us that the heart is deceptive and is no basis for morality (Jeremiah 17:9-10).

God commands us to proclaim the gospel to all people. He never commands us to "live and let live", but to warn people of the danger that they are in while they remain in their sin.

Why are you "unhappy" how Christians have handled homosexuality? Because unlike the world, the Christian will not affirm or celebrate someone while they are in rebellion to God in their sin?

------
"I don't see many Christians willing to go the extra mile to understand somebody different from them. I see a lot of worship of religious tradition and orthodoxy over caring about real human beings."

Then I wonder about who you have interacted with? And if a Christian is not showing compassion as a regular trend in their life, they are not walking in accordance with the truth of the Bible. The follower of Christianity is not what defines Christianity. God and His inerrant word of the Bible are what defines Christianity.

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"We really don't know God, he's an incomprehensible mystery."

In a way that is true. We don't know the absolute depth of God, because He is infinite and we are not. But we can know God through His Son Jesus Christ, and what He tells us in His inerrant word of the Bible.

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"The classical western theology is absurd, even ridiculous, and can't be taken seriously by intelligent people."

What do you define as "classical western theology"?

---------
"Believing in an all-powerful benevolent God is simply absurd."

I don't disagree. But that is not the God of the Bible and not the one true and living God. God is not "all-powerful benevolent" while having no other attributes. God is righteous, holy, perfect, eternal, infinite, loving, grace, mercy, omni-present, omniscient, has a righteous wrath against sin, among other attributes.

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"So the way I see it, Christians, as followers of Jesus, should be a humanistic religion more like Confucianism or Taoism, with God and his will left a mystery, and focused on the human predicament."

That is not Jesus of the Bible, it is a false "Jesus" you have created in your imagination to suit your desires. And it sounds like you have been deceived by the social gospel, that Jesus came for simply social justice. That is not the truth. Jesus came to bear witness to the truth: that man is dead in his sins against the holy, righteous and perfect God and yet God in His immeasurable love, came to give mercy, grace and love for all who would abandon their sin and rebellion and trust in Him. Taking care of the poor and needy is important and it is a side effect of the gospel of Jesus Christ, but it is not the gospel itself.


I would recommend you read and study the Bible and humbly ask God to reveal the truth to you, because from what you wrote, you appear to be greatly deceived on the truth of God, the Bible and Christianity. I don't truly know your heart, but it sounds as if you never were a Christian.

 

[FireDragon76]

I would recommend you read and study the Bible and humbly ask God to reveal the truth to you, because from what you wrote, you appear to be greatly deceived on the truth of God, the Bible and Christianity. I don't truly know your heart, but it sounds as if you never were a Christian.

Are you sure this theology is compatible with "Whosoever will, may come"? Sounds to me like Christian Fundamentalism.

And frankly that last sentence was ridiculous. I was raised a Methodist, ergo, a Christian. I was a Christian.

 

[FireDragon76]

I would recommend you read and study the Bible and humbly ask God to reveal the truth to you, because from what you wrote, you appear to be greatly deceived on the truth of God, the Bible and Christianity. I don't truly know your heart, but it sounds as if you never were a Christian.

I would recommend you humbly read some science and history books and look at your fundamentalist religion critically, realizing that you could just be very wrong, as wrong as no doubt you believe Hindus or Buddhists also are wrong. What makes your beliefs so special?

 

[FireDragon76]

Those fairy tales, are actually as real as it gets. ITs very, very deep in truth.

Prove it.

Frankly, if I acknowledge something like "sin", your religious views fit the bill.

 

[Extraneous]

Prove it.

Frankly, if I acknowledge something like "sin", your religious views fit the bill.

I don need to prove anything. Im content with hope in Christ.