"I'm here to kill Mexicans!"

[grasping the after wind]

I already read that one, but since I have been informed that my book knowledge isn't sufficient without having actually gone to a gun show, I'd like to hear about the proceedings from someone who actually went through them.

It may be that no one here has done that. I don't know anyone that has gone to a gun show. I doubt it is a place many Christians hang out at. I thought you were interested in private sales in particular rather than gun show sales. Here's another link I found that might have an answer for you.

Gun show loophole - Wikipedia

 

[dgiharris]

Any PhD in African Studies, for instance.

I ran across a Brother getting his Masters in Black American Culture... He was doing his thesis on the influence of Black Culture in music. He then goes on to rattle off every Motown group ever in existence then telling me about how this song from 1964 influenced this other song in 1983 which then influence this other song in 2005...

He was very knowledgeable, but then I asked him if he was taking any business or marketing classes. He looks at me with this blank stare and kinda asks me "why would I take business classes?" I then ask him how is he going to monetize all of this knowledge? I received another blank stare.

I explain to him that there is TONS of money to be made in Music, Fashion, Art, Marketing, etc for those who can understand and PREDICT societal trends or those who can understand demographics. I told him that there are plenty of companies that would pay him a six figure salary if he knew how to properly assimilate his knowledge in some sort of business or marketing aspect and show XYZ company how to capitalize on a trend or how to reach the "urban" and/or young demographic which of course is heavily influenced by black culture.

I got another blank stare then some convoluted explanation about how he didn't want to get into business or marketing but wanted to focus on Academia...

I find it appalling that you can go to College and get a degree let alone an advanced degree in a field of study that has no pathway to making or earning a living. If all your degree is good for is teaching that degree than your degree is useless.

 

[dgiharris]

Just go to a gun show.

Oh, right. The american prison population is well known for their mental health.

What's your perception of buying a firearm at a gun show? Just walk up, throw down some cash, and walk away with a firearm? It's obvious you've never been to a gun show.

So please, enlighten me. What is the usual legal process of buying a firearm at a gunshow from a private seller?

Nah, you pretty much nailed it.

In a lot of States, there is the gun show loop hole, that is, if you sell as a "private" citizen to another "private" citizen then there is no need for background checks, registration, etc. Simply slap the cash down and enjoy your gun and yes that is 100% legal.

 

[iluvatar5150]

I find it appalling that you can go to College and get a degree let alone an advanced degree in a field of study that has no pathway to making or earning a living. If all your degree is good for is teaching that degree than your degree is useless.

I take it then that you're not a big fan of museums? Or documentaries? Or pretty much anything that involves researching and producing content about history?

And then there's non-pop music and art outside of big galleries or commercial graphic design...

 

[Nithavela]

I find it appalling that you can go to College and get a degree let alone an advanced degree in a field of study that has no pathway to making or earning a living. If all your degree is good for is teaching that degree than your degree is useless.

If all humans thought like this our world look very different.

 

[RDKirk]

Nah, you pretty much nailed it.

In a lot of States, there is the gun show loop hole, that is, if you sell as a "private" citizen to another "private" citizen then there is no need for background checks, registration, etc. Simply slap the cash down and enjoy your gun and yes that is 100% legal.

That's not so much a "gun show" loophole as it is a general constitutional right beyond the 2nd Amendment. Private citizens have a right to sell legal private property to other private citizens.

Not a lot of such gun sales are happening within gun shows themselves because:

1. You have to pay for booths at gun shows, and most of them are not cheap at all. Persons making gun show sales have to cover the cost of the booth through the price of their guns--selling enough guns at a reasonable price (i.e., less than a local store) or a few guns at a highly inflated price.

2. Federal law requires persons in the business of selling guns (and the Feds get to decide what looks like a "business") to be federally licensed. Such licensees are further required to make background checks and keep federally mandated records of purchases.

Thus, there aren't very many people going to the trouble and expense of setting up a public booth at a gun show to sell few enough guns at a low enough price not to pop on the radar of illegal gun dealing (and don't think the legitimate booth dealers wouldn't turn them in).

Now, since gun shows do attract people who want to buy guns, there are probably a lot more person-to-person sales going on in the gun show parking lot than at, say, the Walmart parking lot. But it would be false rhetoric to present that as a major avenue of illicit gun sales. The "gun show loophole" is actually a pretty small opening.

 

[RDKirk]

I find it appalling that you can go to College and get a degree let alone an advanced degree in a field of study that has no pathway to making or earning a living. If all your degree is good for is teaching that degree than your degree is useless.

The point of a "Doctorate" is to teach. That's what the word literally means: Doctor = "teacher." (Which I'm sure you know.)

But before the Doctorate comes Master, and that's what people seem to have forgotten about. Initially, one was designated a Master only after becoming an undisputed expert of practice in the field.

That understanding puts several things into place. For one, it would have to be a field of study that is actually practicable in the field.

Which would realize your point: It would have to be something good for more than just teaching.

 

[dgiharris]

I take it then that you're not a big fan of museums? Or documentaries?

Museums and documentaries make money and are supported by basic principles of Capitalism...

History is a "core" pillar of education-- Without History, you can't properly learn other disciplines such as: business, law, economics, political science, etc... all of which are integral components of multi billion dollar industries / economies... so again, history is fine... Similarly, I watch the history channel all the time, my viewership pays for commercials so again, supported by capitalism...

And then there's non-pop music and art outside of big galleries or commercial graphic design...

Music and art are a part of EVERYTHING... Music and art are in everything so again, very easy to link to actual economy and capitalism...

 

[dgiharris]

The point of a "Doctorate" is to teach. That's what the word literally means: Doctor = "teacher." (Which I'm sure you know.)

But before the Doctorate comes Master, and that's what people seem to have forgotten about. Initially, one was designated a Master only after becoming an undisputed expert of practice in the field.

That understanding puts several things into place. For one, it would have to be a field of study that is actually practicable in the field.

Which would realize your point: It would have to be something good for more than just teaching.

I should have elaborated a little more...

I love teaching and teachers and academia. However, in order to be "successful" you have to be at the top of the field... What I mean is this.

Lets say you have a population of XYZ people and 100 universities...

If you have 100 universities each teaching 100 engineers then you produce 10,000 engineers per year. The economy is big enough to easily support that sort of growth rate and influx of engineers every year.

But if you have 100 universities each teaching 100 academics then you produce 10,000 academics per year and the university landscape is NOT big enough to support 10,000 academics per year. If I had to hazard a guess, I would guess that Academia as a whole can only support a 1% to 2% growth rate of academics per year meaning that the remaining 98% will have to find employment in some other field. Or put another way, there are only so many teachers you need per year teaching Ph'D and Master's level courses. Similarly, the existing educators aren't dying off at a faster rate than what is being produced...

So if you are getting an advanced degree with the sole purpose of becoming an academic that is fine, but IMHO you need to be at the very top of your field because there is only so much room at the academic trough and the existing hogs are tenured and near impossible to dislodge

 

[iluvatar5150]

Museums and documentaries make money and are supported by basic principles of Capitalism...

Noooooo they do not - at least not most of them. Even the ones that charge admission (many don't) are still largely supported by philanthropy. I grabbed the financial statements of the first three museums that popped into my head: The Met (NYC), The Guggenheim (NYC), and the Getty (LA)

https://www.metmuseum.org/-/media/f...l-reports/2017-2018/annual-report-2017-18.pdf (financials start on pg 44)

https://www.guggenheim.org/wp-conte...genheim-audited-financial-statements-2017.pdf

https://www.getty.edu/about/governance/pdfs/auditedfinancials.pdf


The Met was free to everyone until about a year ago (I think). About 26% of their revenue comes from admissions & membership, while around 71% comes from a combination of gifts, endowment support, and gov't support from NYC.

About 90% of the Getty's revenue came from investments.

Of the three, the Guggenheim seems to have the most capitalist approach, with only about 22% of their revenue coming from gifts and investments (it's possibly higher than that - I didn't bother digging to see what "auxiliary income" consisted of).

Off the top of my head, the two big art museums here in Baltimore - the BMA and the Walters both have free admission, as do all of the ones on the mall in DC. Some of the smaller museums charge money, but from what I've seen of the crowds there, I can't imagine that admission fees alone keep the doors open.

History is a "core" pillar of education-- Without History, you can't properly learn other disciplines such as: business, law, economics, political science, etc... all of which are integral components of multi billion dollar industries / economies... so again, history is fine...

Who's researching that history, writing books about it, and teaching it to others?

Similarly, I watch the history channel all the time, my viewership pays for commercials so again, supported by capitalism...

It's funny that you used History Channel as an example - yes, they're supported by capitalism, but most of their shows these days have only the most tenuous of associations with actual history. Most of their lineup is reality shows.

HISTORY Canada | History - Videos, TV Schedule & Watch Full Episodes

Music and art are a part of EVERYTHING... Music and art are in everything so again, very easy to link to actual economy and capitalism...

And yet, most musicians and artists have to at least do some teaching in order to pay the bills.

And in order for Person A to utilize that information in order to make a fortune, they would have had to either do the original research themselves, or they would have had to learn it from somebody else who did the original research, i.e. Person B.

Person B is the guy you talked to.

I should have elaborated a little more...

I love teaching and teachers and academia. However, in order to be "successful" you have to be at the top of the field... What I mean is this.

Lets say you have a population of XYZ people and 100 universities...

If you have 100 universities each teaching 100 engineers then you produce 10,000 engineers per year. The economy is big enough to easily support that sort of growth rate and influx of engineers every year.

But if you have 100 universities each teaching 100 academics then you produce 10,000 academics per year and the university landscape is NOT big enough to support 10,000 academics per year. If I had to hazard a guess, I would guess that Academia as a whole can only support a 1% to 2% growth rate of academics per year meaning that the remaining 98% will have to find employment in some other field. Or put another way, there are only so many teachers you need per year teaching Ph'D and Master's level courses. Similarly, the existing educators aren't dying off at a faster rate than what is being produced...

So if you are getting an advanced degree with the sole purpose of becoming an academic that is fine, but IMHO you need to be at the very top of your field because there is only so much room at the academic trough and the existing hogs are tenured and near impossible to dislodge

If your only argument is that the market is oversaturated, fine. As someone who works in a "sexy/fun" field in the arts, and whose spouse works in higher ed administration at top-tier universities, I'll be the first one to get on that bus. One of the universities around here recently shuttered a few of their majors (including some "normal" ones like math), and folks came out of the woodwork to lament their loss and how crazy it was to drop such programs. I pointed out that if the programs couldn't get enough students to even warrant staying open, then they weren't competitive and were likely putting their graduates at a disadvantage relative to graduates of other universities. IMO, I think a lot of fields would be better off if we hollowed out the middle of their university offerings: leave the community colleges and the top-25 programs alone, and at the rest, bump all these super-competitive fields down to minors and electives. Nobody needs to be spending $80k+ on a theater degree from Utica College.

 

[Nithavela]

I think that it is a good thing that some people decide to study the things they enjoy, even if they cant be used to make money. Be they culture, history, arts, music or literature. These people contribute to a wealth that is far more important than the material wealth of the industry, the collective wealth of human culture and experience.

If we abandon this, we might as well rebrand ourselves as morlocks.

And if you understand that reference, congratulations, you too have a piece of knowledge you cant turn into profit. Does it make you richer or poorer?

 

[RDKirk]

I think that it is a good thing that some people decide to study the things they enjoy, even if they cant be used to make money. Be they culture, history, arts, music or literature. These people contribute to a wealth that is far more important than the material wealth of the industry, the collective wealth of human culture and experience.

If we abandon this, we might as well rebrand ourselves as morlocks.

And if you understand that reference, congratulations, you too have a piece of knowledge you cant turn into profit. Does it make you richer or poorer?

Let's not forget what this thread is about, though. We're not talking about people who are teaching others how to spend their personal time.

We're talking about people who are trying to dictate what public policy should be.

 

[Darkhorse]

It may be that no one here has done that. I don't know anyone that has gone to a gun show. I doubt it is a place many Christians hang out at. I thought you were interested in private sales in particular rather than gun show sales.

I have gone to several gun shows, and purchased a gun at one. I have also purchased several guns from private individuals over the years, including many law-enforcement officers.

RDKirk described the gun-show situation well. Most sellers at most shows are "in the business" of selling firearms, and therefore must follow federal laws when conducting a sale. This includes the buyer filling out Form 4473 (google it) and complying with any required background checks and waiting periods.

In most states, private individuals may legally sell guns at gun shows, in parking lots, or anywhere else without a federal license, as long as they don't sell enough of them to cross the line into being "in the business". Each state has different laws regarding private sales, but with or without such laws, private sales can and do happen, legally or not. This is (of course) also true for illegal drugs and many other things. The fact that guns are sold in private transactions does not mean that they will be used illegally; none of the guns I've bought that way have been used in crimes.

The "gun show loophole" is a fiction created by gun-control advocates who wish to outlaw or restrict private sales - in the name of "common sense", of course.

And there is nothing "un-Christian" about gun shows.

 

[Nithavela]

Let's not forget what this thread is about, though. We're not talking about people who are teaching others how to spend their personal time.

We're talking about people who are trying to dictate what public policy should be.

I thought this thread is about some guy attacking some other guys.

 

[iluvatar5150]

The "gun show loophole" is a fiction created by gun-control advocates who wish to outlaw or restrict private sales - in the name of "common sense", of course.

It's not a fiction - you just described how it's not a fiction. It's merely poorly named.

 

[Nithavela]

It's not a fiction - you just described how it's not a fiction. It's merely poorly named.

I think it should be renamed, too. Most of the private resale of guns propably happens not at gun shows, but either through local newspaper ads, word of mouth or internet markets.

 

[Darkhorse]

I think it should be renamed, too. Most of the private resale of guns propably happens not at gun shows, but either through local newspaper ads, word of mouth or internet markets.

Guns sold through the internet (and not delivered face-to-face) must be transferred through a licensed dealer, so all federal laws apply to that transaction.

 

[Nithavela]

Guns sold through the internet (and not delivered face-to-face) must be transferred through a licensed dealer, so all federal laws apply to that transaction.

Certainly, but the internet can still help buyer and seller to find each other and communicate, and then the buyer can drive to the sellers house (or vice versa) and they can exchange currency and weaponry.

 

[TheBear]

..............

 

[Aryeh Jay]

That's not so much a "gun show" loophole as it is a general constitutional right beyond the 2nd Amendment. Private citizens have a right to sell legal private property to other private citizens.

Not a lot of such gun sales are happening within gun shows themselves because:

1. You have to pay for booths at gun shows, and most of them are not cheap at all. Persons making gun show sales have to cover the cost of the booth through the price of their guns--selling enough guns at a reasonable price (i.e., less than a local store) or a few guns at a highly inflated price.

2. Federal law requires persons in the business of selling guns (and the Feds get to decide what looks like a "business") to be federally licensed. Such licensees are further required to make background checks and keep federally mandated records of purchases.

Thus, there aren't very many people going to the trouble and expense of setting up a public booth at a gun show to sell few enough guns at a low enough price not to pop on the radar of illegal gun dealing (and don't think the legitimate booth dealers wouldn't turn them in).

Now, since gun shows do attract people who want to buy guns, there are probably a lot more person-to-person sales going on in the gun show parking lot than at, say, the Walmart parking lot. But it would be false rhetoric to present that as a major avenue of illicit gun sales. The "gun show loophole" is actually a pretty small opening.

I have not been to every gun show but the ones I have been to, all the venders were established business or gun manufactures. Magpul, Surefire, Colt, local gun stores, gun ranges, gunsmiths, military recruiters, lots of law enforcement but no one that looked like Joe Blow selling Grandpa’s shotgun or Nambu pistol from the War.