If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

[bugkiller]

You said gentiles weren't included in the OC and I showed plenty of examples of gentiles who came to faith in the Old Testament. My point was that saying gentiles aren't included is the same as saying unbelievers aren't included, obviously if you don't submit to God you aren't part of his covenants. What do you have to say about those eternal life/resurrection quotes? I thought you said there was no hope of eternal life before the new covenant? Here's another set, enjoy Ezekiel 37:1-14

You should read and understand the Book of the Law.

bugkiller

 

[Travis93]

You should read and understand the Book of the Law.

bugkiller

That's my goal, I want to understand which laws can still be followed so I can stop living in sin.
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

I'm waiting till I become totally compliant and full of understanding before I get baptized for the remission of sins. After all, I don't want to get saved, just to sin again and lose my salvation.
Hebrews 10:26-27 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

 

[Jan001]

....
What I would like to emphasize from the New Testament is that there is no indication that a special day of rest is part of the new covenant. Hebrews tells us not to forsake assembling ourselves together. Every day is the Lord's day and if a church feels the need to make one day special we are free to do just that.

I agree that every day is the Lord's day because God creates every day and so every day is His day. Romans 14:5-7

That said, the early Church gathered together to worship on the first day of the week, and the early Church called it the Lord's Day. Since everyone learned from the Church elders' oral preaching that this was the specific day of the week that they were to gather together and it was the common practice, there was no need to specifically remind anyone of this fact many years later when the NC Scriptures were first written. Everyone in that time period received specific teaching about the requirements for worship directly from the apostles and disciples and their successors.
Thessalonians 2:15, Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2

We know that John was in the spirit on a specific day of the week which he called the Lord's Day, which was known by all Christians at that time to be the first day of the week.

Revelation 1:10
I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, nkjv
​

If you read the early church fathers' writings, you will find much evidence for their meeting together specifically on the first day of the week, the Lord's Day.

The big problem that I see is that some groups insist that we worship on the day they hold dear to their hearts. We have given them proof over and over that they are in the wrong by doing so. They even make it a salvational issue, damning us to hell if we don't abide by their misconceptions. Throughout all of history Biblical and otherwise God has never given gentiles a command to observe a day. Only Israel was given a command to observe days and all of those days had significance only for Israel. The weekly Sabbath was to commemorate their release from bondage in Egypt as was Passover. The other feast holy days were specific to Israel only. The covenant which contained all of those ritual commands ended at the Cross. Jesus fulfilled the law. Israel broke the covenant making the covenant void

God does not punish people who are, through no fault of their own, truly ignorant of Jesus' command to worship on the first day of the week. God knows the heart of each and every person and He knows which people would have followed His command if they had known it, and so He judges them according to His mercy and justice.

You will find from historical records that the early Christians met together to worship on the first day of the week, Sunday, which they called the Lord's Day and that this is the day of the week that Jesus told them to gather together to worship.

God began the physical creation of the world on the first day of the week through His Word. Genesis 1:3. John 1:1-5

Jesus began the spiritual re-creation of the world on the first day of the week when He [THE Word] rose from the dead on this day.

The early Christians celebrated the feast of Pentecost but not in the same manner as the Jews. 2 Maccabees 12:32

The word pentecost is a Greek word and it simply means 50.

Exactly 50 days after the Resurrection, on the first day of the week, the Holy Spirit descended upon and empowered the apostles to go out to all the nations to make disciples for Him. Matthew 28:18-20

Some Christians today do celebrate the birthday of the Church every year and they call it the Feast of Pentecost. 1 Corinthians 16:8

 

[Jan001]

That's my goal, I want to understand which laws can still be followed so I can stop living in sin.
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

I'm waiting till I become totally compliant and full of understanding before I get baptized for the remission of sins. After all, I don't want to get saved, just to sin again and lose my salvation.
Hebrews 10:26-27 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Travis,

If you believe/have faith in Jesus and receive baptism as Jesus commanded in Matthew 28:19-20, all your previous sins are forgiven and you are reborn spiritually/saved.

It is belief and baptism which makes us spiritually re-born. It is belief and baptism which saves us.

Mark 16:16
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. nkjv

Acts 22:16
And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’ nkjv

1 Corinthians 6:11
And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

John 3:5
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. rsv
​

But, to be approved to inherit eternal life after your physical death, you must remain faithful/saved until you die.

Revelation 2:10
Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life. rsv​

A Christian is required to do his best to stop sinning.

Luke 13:24
“Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. rsv​

A Christian who commits a sin that is not mortal and dies without repenting of his sin before he dies will still be approved to inherit eternal life.

A Christian who knowingly/willfully commits a mortal sin and does not repent of his mortal sin before he dies will absolutely not be approved to inherit eternal life.

1 John 5:15-18
And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have obtained the requests made of him. 16 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal. 18 We know that any one born of God does not sin [he personally chooses to stop sinning], but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him. rsv

​

Examples of mortal sins:

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. rsv

Galatians 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. rsv

Ephesians 5:5
Be sure of this, that no fornicator or impure man, or one who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. rsv

​

What should a Christian do if he does commit a mortal sin, but then he wants to re-establish his previous good standing with God?

1 John 1:9-10
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. rsv

Acts 26:19-20
“Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, 20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. rsv

Matthew 3:8
Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, nkjv

​

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Doesn't God say in His Own Word,
that being re-born / born again/ is not up to the will of man, nor of the flesh,
but
(simply and purely and perfectly)
by the Will of The Father in Heaven ?
Just like a physical conception never happens except the Father accomplishes it/ grants it/
so also even moreso
a spiritual re-birth never happens except by the Fathers Design/ Will/ Purpose/ WHEN HE Grants it (IF He Grants it).

 

[Bob S]

I agree that every day is the Lord's day because God creates every day and so every day is His day. Romans 14:5-7

That said, the early Church gathered together to worship on the first day of the week, and the early Church called it the Lord's Day. Since everyone learned from the Church elders' oral preaching that this was the specific day of the week that they were to gather together and it was the common practice, there was no need to specifically remind anyone of this fact many years later when the NC Scriptures were first written. Everyone in that time period received specific teaching about the requirements for worship directly from the apostles and disciples and their successors.
Thessalonians 2:15, Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2

We know that John was in the spirit on a specific day of the week which he called the Lord's Day, which was known by all Christians at that time to be the first day of the week.

Revelation 1:10
I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, nkjv
​

If you read the early church fathers' writings, you will find much evidence for their meeting together specifically on the first day of the week, the Lord's Day.




God does not punish people who are, through no fault of their own, truly ignorant of Jesus' command to worship on the first day of the week. God knows the heart of each and every person and He knows which people would have followed His command if they had known it, and so He judges them according to His mercy and justice.

You will find from historical records that the early Christians met together to worship on the first day of the week, Sunday, which they called the Lord's Day and that this is the day of the week that Jesus told them to gather together to worship.

God began the physical creation of the world on the first day of the week through His Word. Genesis 1:3. John 1:1-5

Jesus began the spiritual re-creation of the world on the first day of the week when He [THE Word] rose from the dead on this day.

The early Christians celebrated the feast of Pentecost but not in the same manner as the Jews. 2 Maccabees 12:32

The word pentecost is a Greek word and it simply means 50.

Exactly 50 days after the Resurrection, on the first day of the week, the Holy Spirit descended upon and empowered the apostles to go out to all the nations to make disciples for Him. Matthew 28:18-20

Some Christians today do celebrate the birthday of the Church every year and they call it the Feast of Pentecost. 1 Corinthians 16:8

There is absolutely no doubt that very early Sunday became the day most Christians gathered to fellowship and hear the word. That in no way is a "command of Jesus" as you indicated. I have no idea where you got your information ,but searching scripture is certainly is not there. And of course there in no penalty involved with not observing a day which is further indication we are not under a ritual day law.

 

[bugkiller]

That's my goal, I want to understand which laws can still be followed so I can stop living in sin.
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

I'm waiting till I become totally compliant and full of understanding before I get baptized for the remission of sins. After all, I don't want to get saved, just to sin again and lose my salvation.
Hebrews 10:26-27 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Do you...well never mind as it might be misunderstood.

bugkiller

 

[Jan001]

Doesn't God say in His Own Word,
that being re-born / born again/ is not up to the will of man, nor of the flesh,
but
(simply and purely and perfectly)
by the Will of The Father in Heaven ?
Just like a physical conception never happens except the Father accomplishes it/ grants it/
so also even moreso
a spiritual re-birth never happens except by the Fathers Design/ Will/ Purpose/ WHEN HE Grants it (IF He Grants it).

True; spiritual re-birth happens by the Father's Design/Will/Purpose when He grants it, but the Father always Wills that every person who believes and receives Baptism according to Jesus' command in Matthew 28:19-20 be spiritually reborn and so He always grants spiritual rebirth to every person who believes and receives Baptism.

Acts 2:21
And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the Lord Shall be saved.’ nkjv

Acts 22:16
And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’ nkjv

​

God does not create some people so that He can arbitrarily destroy them. God desires that every person repent and be saved through the water of Baptism.

Luke 24:46-48
Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And you are witnesses of these things. nkjv

Acts 2:38

Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. nkjv

1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; rsv

1 Timothy 2:3-6
This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, the testimony to which was borne at the proper time. rsv

1 Corinthians 6:11
And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. rsv





​

 

[Jan001]

There is absolutely no doubt that very early Sunday became the day most Christians gathered to fellowship and hear the word. That in no way is a "command of Jesus" as you indicated. I have no idea where you got your information ,but searching scripture is certainly is not there. And of course there in no penalty involved with not observing a day which is further indication we are not under a ritual day law.

The command for Sunday worship is not specifically listed in the Scriptures, but it was never, ever the plan of God to have every command for Christians listed in the Scriptures.

The Scriptures were written as a supplement to the apostles' and disciples' oral preaching. Jesus never told the apostles to write a book and then have each person interpret it for himself. Jesus founded a Church and He gave His authority to its leaders and their successors to write letters, to choose which of their writings to compile into a book, to interpret their own Scriptures, and to make laws concerning the disciplines of the Church and the rituals of Christian worship. Matthew 28:18-20, Luke10:16, Acts 1:16-27, 2 Timothy 2:2,

Matthew 16:17-19
And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” rsv

Ephesians 2:19-21
Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God [Church], 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, nkjv

Matthew 18:18
Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. rsv

2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter. rsv​

There is a penalty for the people who know that they are required to obey the commands/laws of the apostles and their successors, if they do not obey the commands of the apostles and their successors. Luke10:16, Matthew 18:15-18

1 Corinthians 14:37
If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. rsv

​

We do not have possession of all the correspondence of the apostles and their successors. I do know that there was another letter written to the Corinthians which was lost because Paul states in 1 Corinthians that he had written a previous letter to them.

1 Corinthians 5:9-10
I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person. nkjv​

The NT Scriptures were written by Christian Church Leaders and they used them as supplementary instructions for the Christian disciples who had already had the gospel preached to them. "Scripture Only" or "Scripture Alone" or "Sola Scriptura" is not a true doctrine in the Christian Faith founded by Jesus Christ.

Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. nkjv​

 

[Jan001]

More examples of mortal sins which cause a Christian to fall away from the faith:

Matthew 6:14-15
For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you; 15 but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. rsv

1 Timothy 5:8
If any one does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his own family, he has disowned the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. rsv​

 

[BobRyan]

You should read and understand the Book of the Law.

bugkiller

Are you back at the 1050 commands in the NT again?

or is it your claim (as in the case of at least one other on this board) that Christians should ignore the teaching of Christ if they are not Jews?

Matt 19
16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said,
“‘You shall not murder,’
‘You shall not commit adultery,’
‘You shall not steal,’
‘You shall not bear false witness,’
19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and,
‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

 

[BobRyan]

The command for Sunday worship is not specifically listed in the Scriptures, but it was never, ever the plan of God to have every command for Christians listed in the Scriptures.

In the dark ages - "making stuff up that is not in scripture" was the rule of the day. The protestant reformation was in the spirit of "sola scriptura testing" of all doctrine and tradition.

Notice how Christ hammers the church magisterium "sola scriptura" when they attempt to toy with the commandments of God?

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Notice in Gal 1:6-9 how the APOSTLE Paul condemns the idea of simply "taking whatever you hear and APOSTLE say over the Word of God?"

Gal 1
6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we (APOSTLES), or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

Act 17:11
They studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul -- were SO"

No wonder the sola-scriptura case for the Bible Sabbath works out so well (as we saw in the example below).

Another opportunity to evaluate the subject "sola scriptura" -

======================================


1. There is not one NT or OT text saying "week day 1 is the Holy Day of the LORD" but we DO have that for Sabbath in Is 58:13. (AND we do not have ONE text in the NT or OT that says "week day 1 is the LORD's Day)

2. There is not ONE text in the NT or OT that says that "they met EVERY week-day-1 for gospel teaching" for both Jews AND gentiles but we DO have that for Sabbath in Acts 18:4-6.

3. There is not ONE text in the NT or OT that says "they met week-day-1 after week-day-1 " for anything - but we DO have that in Acts 13 and Acts 17 regarding Sabbath for both Jews AND Gentiles.

4. There is not ONE text in the NT or OT saying "from week day 1 to week day 1 shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" - but we DO have that in Is 66:23 for the Sabbath.

5. There is not ONE text in the NT or OT saying "the Son of man is LORD of week day 1" but we DO have that in the NT for the Sabbath in Mark 2:28.

6. There is not ONE text in the NT saying "there REMAINS therefore a week-day 1 rest for the people of God" but we DO have that for Sabbath in Heb 4.

7. There is not ONE text in NT or OT saying "remember week-day-1 to keep it holy" but we DO have that in Ex 20:8 for the Sabbath.

8. There is NOT ONE text in NT or OT saying it is ok by God if we bend/edit/break/ignore one of the TEN Commandments - but we DO have condemnation for doing such a thing in the NT -- by the Words of Christ Himself! Mark 7:6-13


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it's traditions and "doctrines of men" are at odds with scripture.


============================= btw -

The elders consisting of scribes and pharisees are in fact the "magisterium" even Paul admits to this. And Jesus shows how they claim to "sit in the chair of Moses" as church magisterium .


Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying, The scribes and the Pharisees have taken their seat in the chair of Moses. Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example. For they preach but they do not practice. (Matthew 23:1-3)

 

[BobRyan]

I agree that every day is the Lord's day because God creates every day and so every day is His day. Romans 14:5-7

1. Romans 14 does not say "every day is the LORD's Day"
2. Romans 14 does not approve of keeping EVERY day as the weekly Sabbath -- resting from work.. in fact in Gal 4 Paul CONDEMNS the "observance" of even ONE of the pagan holy days.
3. Romans 14 is only concerned with the Bible-approved list of annual holy days in Leviticus 23.

Bible details matter.

 

[Bob S]

The command for Sunday worship is not specifically listed in the Scriptures, but it was never, ever the plan of God to have every command for Christians listed in the Scriptures.

The Scriptures were written as a supplement to the apostles' and disciples' oral preaching. Jesus never told the apostles to write a book and then have each person interpret it for himself. Jesus founded a Church and He gave His authority to its leaders and their successors to write letters, to choose which of their writings to compile into a book, to interpret their own Scriptures, and to make laws concerning the disciplines of the Church and the rituals of Christian worship. Matthew 28:18-20, Luke10:16, Acts 1:16-27, 2 Timothy 2:2,

Matthew 16:17-19
And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” rsv

Ephesians 2:19-21
Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God [Church], 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, nkjv

Matthew 18:18
Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. rsv

2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter. rsv​

There is a penalty for the people who know that they are required to obey the commands/laws of the apostles and their successors, if they do not obey the commands of the apostles and their successors. Luke10:16, Matthew 18:15-18

1 Corinthians 14:37
If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. rsv

​

We do not have possession of all the correspondence of the apostles and their successors. I do know that there was another letter written to the Corinthians which was lost because Paul states in 1 Corinthians that he had written a previous letter to them.

1 Corinthians 5:9-10
I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person. nkjv​

The NT Scriptures were written by Christian Church Leaders and they used them as supplementary instructions for the Christian disciples who had already had the gospel preached to them. "Scripture Only" or "Scripture Alone" or "Sola Scriptura" is not a true doctrine in the Christian Faith founded by Jesus Christ.

Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. nkjv​

Is it so hard to say "you are correct"? New Covenant Christians use the writings of the Apostles as our guide and none of them ever expressed that we are to "keep" Sunday. I seems to me trying to prove that we must observe Sunday is just as futile as trying to prove we must "keep" the Sabbath of old Israel.

You refer to John and his statement that he was in worship on the Lord's day. Any day could have been the Lord's day. Stapling it to Sunday is a false claim. Assuming is a dangerous gaame to play when dealing with a person's salvation.

Many have proved that because of so many calendar changes over the centuries we cannot be sure if we are following the same pattern as our ancestors. Who really knows for sure? And who should really care. We are not saved by rituals, we are saved by Grace.

 

[Jan001]

......Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

The context of Mark 7 is that some Pharisees were refusing to financially support their parents which is a violation of God's commandment to honor father and mother.

Matthew 15:1-8
Then Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said, 2 “Why do your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat.” 3 He answered them, “And why do you transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, let him surely die.’ 5 But you say, ‘If any one tells his father or his mother, What you would have gained from me is given to God, he need not honor his father.’ 6 So, for the sake of your tradition, you have made void the word of God. 7 You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said:
8 ‘This people honors me with their lips,
but their heart is far from me;
​

A man-made tradition is not a good tradition if it violates the command of God to honor ones' parents.

1 Timothy 5:8
If any one does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his own family, he has disowned the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. rsv​

But, a man-made tradition is a good tradition if it does not violate the commandment of God.

Hanukah (Feast of the Dedication) is an example of a good man-made tradition which does not violate a commandment of God.

John 10:22
It was the feast of the Dedication at Jerusalem; rsv

2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter. rsv​

The Sabbath laws were not commands of Jesus Christ. His death on the cross ended the Law of Moses and its Sabbath laws and its priesthood. Christ ended the Law of Moses and its Sabbath laws.

Luke 16:16
“The law and the prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and every one enters it violently. rsv​

Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law, that every one who has faith may be justified. rsv​

Paul instructs the Gentile converts that they are not required to obey the Law of Moses and its festival laws, new moon laws, and its Sabbath laws. Some Jewish converts were hassling the non-Jewish converts to obey the Law of Moses and all its ceremonial laws including its Sabbath laws. Paul said to ignore these troublesome Jewish converts.

Colossians 2:13-17
And you, who were dead in trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14 having canceled the bond which stood against us with its legal demands; this he set aside, nailing it to the cross. 15 He disarmed the principalities and powers and made a public example of them, triumphing over them in him.
16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath. 17 These are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. rsv
​

Please note that in your quoted Scripture passage, Jesus did not command the Jewish man to keep the Sabbath in order to be approved to inherit eternal life.

Matt 19
16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said,
“‘You shall not murder,’
‘You shall not commit adultery,’
‘You shall not steal,’
‘You shall not bear false witness,’
19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and,
‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

​

Christians do not violate the commandments of Jesus Christ when they worship Him on Sunday instead of Saturday. The early church fathers said that Jesus told them to worship Him on the first day of the week, Sunday. The apostles obeyed Jesus' teaching and they called His day, the Lord's Day.

​

Jesus is our new and everlasting high priest of His New Covenant and He is not a Levite priest of the Old Covenant. He is the everlasting high priest after the order of Melchizedek and He is not a Levite high priest after the order of Aaron of the Old Covenant. Jesus changes the priesthood and thereby He changes the Law.

Hebrews 6:19-20
We have this as a sure and steadfast anchor of the soul, a hope that enters into the inner shrine behind the curtain, 20 where Jesus has gone as a forerunner on our behalf, having become a high priest for ever after the order of Melchiz′edek. rsv

Hebrews 7:12
For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well. rsv​

All the traditions which the apostles taught the early Christians by their oral preaching or by their letters are good and pleasing to God. The early Christians gathered themselves together on the first day of the week to worship God.

Acts 20:7
On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the morrow; and he prolonged his speech until midnight. rsv​

1 Corinthians 16:2
On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that contributions need not be made when I come. rsv​

The early Christians called the first day of the week, Sunday, the Lord's Day.

Revelation 1:10
I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet rsv
​

 

[Bob S]

Christians do not violate the commandments of Jesus Christ when they worship Him on Sunday instead of Saturday. The early church fathers said that The apostles obeyed Jesus' teaching and they called His day, the Lord's Day.

You wrote: "Jesus told them to worship Him on the first day of the week, Sunday." That is simply not the truth and you should know that it isn't. It is bad enough for law promoters to tell us we must follow Moses, but to put words in Jesus mouth is something else

 

[Travis93]

You wrote: "Jesus told them to worship Him on the first day of the week, Sunday." That is simply not the truth and you should know that it isn't. It is bad enough for law promoters to tell us we must follow Moses, but to put words in Jesus mouth is something else

Jesus would indeed be a sinner and false prophet if the added new commands.
Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.
Deuteronomy 4:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

 

[Jan001]

Act 17:11
They studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul -- were SO"

No wonder the sola-scriptura case for the Bible Sabbath works out so well...

Please note that at this point in time, there wasn't a NT Scripture Bible Canon as we know it today.

In Acts 17:11, these people were studying the OT Scriptures to see if what Paul said about the OT prophesies concerning the long-awaited Messiah were true. These people were studying the OT Scriptures to see if what Paul said about these prophesies being fulfilled by Jesus Christ were true.

Another example regarding the value of OT Scripture

2 Timothy 3:15-17
and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. rsv​

Paul does not state that Scripture is the foundation of the Christian faith. Paul said that all Scripture is helpful for teaching the faith. Paul did not say that Scripture alone is the foundation of the faith.

John 21:25
Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written. rsv​

Peter said that Paul's letters are to be regarded as Scripture and so therefore we know that Paul's writings are helpful for teaching people the gospel/faith of Jesus Christ.

Peter also said that Paul's writings are difficult to understand and that many people are confused by his writings and they even fall away from the faith because of their misinterpretations of Paul's writings and their misinterpretations of the other Scriptures.

2 Peter 3:14-18
So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. 15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
17 Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen. rsv

​

What is the foundation of the faith/gospel/truth of Jesus Christ?

1 Timothy 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth. niv​

The Church that Jesus built upon Peter, the apostles and the prophets, with Himself as the chief cornerstone is the support and foundation of the truth. Matthew 16:17-19, Ephesians 2:19-21, Luke 10:16, Matthew 28:18-20

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Scripture is not the support and foundation of the truth of the Christian faith.

Scripture is a helpful tool for the Church to use to help preach and explain the teachings of the Christian faith according to the gospel of Jesus Christ as He commanded them to do in Matthew 28:18-20.

The Church of Jesus Christ is the support and foundation of the Truth.

​

 

[Jan001]

You wrote: "Jesus told them to worship Him on the first day of the week, Sunday." That is simply not the truth and you should know that it isn't. It is bad enough for law promoters to tell us we must follow Moses, but to put words in Jesus mouth is something else

This truth about what Jesus said about Sunday worship was written down by the early church fathers. It is pretty simple: I believe them and you do not.

 

[Jan001]

Jesus would indeed be a sinner and false prophet if the added new commands.
Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.
Deuteronomy 4:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Jesus is God! God can do whatever He wants to do. We mere humans cannot add to the OT commandments of God, but then why would we want to do this?

Jesus Christ who is God ended the OC Law of Moses. We are now under His NC law of grace.

Matthew 11:13
For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John; rsv

Luke 16:16
“The law and the prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and every one enters it violently. rsv​

Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law, that every one who has faith may be justified. rsv

Romans 6:14-16
For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16 Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to any one as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? rsv​