If you followed OSAS...

[ToBeLoved]

In the bible, eternal life is not immortality, it's a personal relationship with God, (John 17:3).

John 3:15-16
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. (Relationship with God)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (Immortality)

Eternal life (relationship with God) is attain by following His commandments, (John 14:21-23, Matthew 19:16-21).

This is a huge error. You should not equate 'eternal life' as 'relationship with God'. That is really confusing.

What Adam & Eve lost for us was being reconciled back to God, because sin prevents man and God from being reconciled to each other. God is only holy, just, righteous. Man is not, we are sinners, unholy and unrighteous.

So the problem between us and God (problem w/ our relationship with God) is a 'sin problem' So how does man get rid of their 'sin problem' so they can be back with God?

This is a really important concept. Read Romans 5, 6 and 7.

 

[ToBeLoved]

It's conditional, but not toward salvation, rather towards the quality thereof as rewards in heaven are affected. Entrance to heaven is not a reward. Sheep don't become goats.
Once Sheep Always Sheep

Yup.

 

[ToBeLoved]

dup.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Plus, how can a non-believer or "natural man" possibly hope to make that choice apart from Christ because:​

"A natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised." ~1 Cor 2:14​

But this is not talking about coming to Christ for salvation.

This is talking about spiritual discernment and understanding. To have the Holy Spirit, you must have already come to Christ. Then it is the Holy Spirit, after you come and are justified in Christ, that leads us in truth and the conviction of sin, ect. Because the Holy Spirit IS the seal of the New Covenant we make with Christ.

So I disagree.

 

[ToBeLoved]

they will come to live inside you as the holy spirit. This is the relationship and how it begins. That's what "My sheep hears my voice and I know them" means.

If you don't follow in obedience, there is not relationship. Christ will not come to live with willful sinners. Out of your own free will, you have to choose to follow Him first before He comes to you as the holy spirit. This is the second group of sheep that are currently lost, (John 10:16).

John 14:21-23
21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”
22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?”
23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.



In the bible, eternal life is not immortality, it's a personal relationship with God, (John 17:3).

John 3:15-16
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. (Relationship with God)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (Immortality)

Eternal life (relationship with God) is attain by following His commandments, (John 14:21-23, Matthew 19:16-21).

Matthew 19:16-22
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.



Of course it's conditional, it's 110% conditional because it's all based on your free will.

You choose to follow Him, you are being saved. You choose to follow sin, you perish, (John 8:24, Luke 13:3, Romans 2:12, Matthew 5:30). You deny Him/His commandments, He will deny you, (2 Timothy 2:12, Matthew 10:33).

If you on your own free will choose to fall away that not even the holy spirit can convict you that you may be save, it's impossible for God to save you unless He takes away your free will and make you a robot. Then you no longer is a son or daughter of God.

God will not remove anyone's ability to decide on their own. You don't have to be perfect but if you don't make an effort to turn from sin, you end up in hell (whose end is to be burned). Christ's gift of salvation comes with a condition: keep my commandments, (John 14:21-23).

Hebrews 6:4-8
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

This is not good theology. Just try to step back a little and ask questions and then listen. Because this is a huge issue. Is that ok?

Salvation from sin is not because of obedience.

Also, if you could make one point per post that is the easiest to respond to and it is usually less confusing because it's hard to pull out only one concept out of a long post and reply.

 

[St_Worm2]

But this is not talking about coming to Christ for salvation.

This is talking about spiritual discernment and understanding. To have the Holy Spirit, you must have already come to Christ. Then it is the Holy Spirit, after you come and are justified in Christ, that leads us in truth and the conviction of sin, ect. Because the Holy Spirit IS the seal of the New Covenant we make with Christ.

So I disagree.

Hi ToBeLoved, v14 speaks of the state of being of the non-Christian (all of us actually, before we come to Christ), which St. Paul contrasts quite nicely for us with the characteristics of a Christian (IOW, "spiritual" v "natural" .. see 1 Corinthians 2:12-16). I offered it to M24 as something for him to consider in response to what (at least appeared to be) a very Pelagian statement on his part in hopes of starting a dialogue about it. Clearly, he wasn't interested in that happening unfortunately

So I agree, of course, v14 is "talking about spiritual discernment and understanding" .. particularly, the lack thereof

Yours and His,
David

 

[JLB777]

You should not equate 'eternal life' as 'relationship with God'.

The biblical definition of eternal life is relationship with God.

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
John 17:3

Know God = Eternal Life

No God = No Eternal life.

He who has [relationship with] the Son has life; he who does not have [relationship with] the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:12


JLB

 

[aiki]

1) vs. 1 - "[you are] babes in Christ..."

1 Corinthians 3:1
My friends, you are acting like the people of this world. That’s why I could not speak to you as spiritual people. You are like babies as far as your faith in Christ is concerned.

As I've said before, Paul is addressing two groups of christians, 1) those in-Christ who are spiritual minded and 2) those who recognizes Christ as the Son of God but are still carnal minded following the flesh.

Red letters = carnal christians (babies in Christ). Black letters = disciples, spiritual-minded, mature in-Christ.

I get what it is you think, I just don't get why you think it. You simply asserted in earlier posts, without justification from the passages themselves, that Paul is thinking as you are, but I have yet to see from you any good reason why I should agree. You seem now to be backing off your claim that the "babes in Christ" to whom Paul was writing were yet-to-be-saved believers. I agree that Paul was speaking to immature, carnal believers but they were just as much "in Christ," just as truly born-again, as Paul himself.

2) vs. 8 - "you are God's field, you are God's building..."

1 Corinthians 3:9
Apollos and I work together for God, and you are God’s garden and God’s building.

Apollos and I = two groups of Christians (read preceding verses). But both work together for God.

Hang on. Paul doesn't distinguish himself from Apollos here but unites himself with Apollos in their work for God. And nothing you say here demonstrates that the immature believers to whom Paul was speaking in vs. 1 are not still the believers he is addressing in vs. 9 whom he calls "God's field and building" - descriptions which clearly indicate divine possession and the ongoing work of God in the lives of the Corinthian believers. You haven't, then, written anything above that actually challenges or refutes what I stated in my last post.

3) vs. 16 - "Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?"

This should be obvious Aiki. It said "the Spirit of God dwells in you." Only those who have the holy spirit are the ones walking in the spirit. These are those mature in-Christ (not the babes in-Christ).

More evidence in preceding verses: 1 Corinthians 3:10-16.

Paul stated in verse 12, "if" anyone builds on this foundation (Christ). Only those being saved are the ones building on a solid foundation (Christ). Those who are perishing builds their foundation on sand. (Parable of the Wise and Foolish Builder: Matthew 7:24-27). Two groups of builders (Christians that builds on Christ and Christians that builds on sand).

So when Paul said "if anyone builds on this foundation" he meant only those who will be saved.

Paul neither explicitly nor implicitly makes the distinction between mature-in-Christ believers and babes-in-Christ believers that you do above. Mature or immature, no one is "in Christ" unless they have the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ (Ro. 8:9, 10) living within them. It is only through the impartation of God's Spirit that one is placed in Christ. But Paul does make a distinction, not between believers having or not having the Spirit, but between believers who are merely living in the Spirit and those who are walking in the Spirit:

Galatians 5:25
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

It is possible to be indwelt by God's Spirit but not be living entirely under the Spirit's control. This is the difference between being indwelt by (living in) the Spirit and being filled by (walking in) the Spirit. It is the difference between relationship and fellowship, or between connection and subjection. Many believers are connected to God by the Spirit but do not live in subjection to God or His Spirit. Many believers are related to God by adoption into His family but they do not enjoy fellowship with Him.

You are linking verses out of context and constructing a set of "truths" that are actually false. The foundation Paul is speaking of in 1 Corinthians 3:12 and the foundation Christ speaks of in his parable of the house on the sand are not the same the foundation. Paul explicitly defines his "foundation" as Christ (vs. 11), but the foundation Jesus speaks of in Matthew 7:24-27 is that of obedient living:

Matthew 7:24-26 (NKJV)
24 "Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock:
25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.
26 But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand:

Your linking of Paul's words with Christ's in this instance, then, is badly and obviously mistaken.

Your last statement in the quotation above is also off. When Paul writes of those who build on the foundation of Christ, he is not writing about people who will be saved, but people who are already saved. It is the fact that they are already saved that makes it possible for all of the works of some of them to be burnt up and yet they are still saved "so as through fire" (vs. 15) or "by the skin of their teeth" as we might say today. They don't earn any reward, but because their salvation is founded upon Christ and his finished work on the cross, not their righteous living, they are still part of God's family.

Selah.

 

[Rick Otto]

You're not born again, in fact you're just kidding yourself. Being born again is "NOT" a one day event! It's a gradual process that takes years to change because you're transforming yourself from being carnal in your heart and mind, to being spiritual.

These are the characteristics of someone walking in the spirit: "love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control."

These are the characteristics of someone walking in the flesh: "adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries."

Galatians 5:16-26
16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.


So are you trying to tell us in one day, you were able to disregard "adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries" and replaced them all with "love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control?"

I don't think so! People just don't transform themselves overnight. And you have to walk in the spirit to be born again. If you're still walking after the flesh, you're not a new creature (born again).

John 3:6-7
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’

John 3:5
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Matthew 18:3
and said, "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.


As for the question about me. I'm gradually being born again as I'm working on it everyday of my life (gradually being transform). A few months ago, I recently learned, understand and overcome how to have faithfulness for God after being tested for 4 years on just that characteristic alone. Being born again does not happen in one day.

Do you understand what all this means? A person is not born again the moment they confess the sinner's prayer and accept Christ as savior and become a christian. This is only the first step in a long journey throughout your life --- endure till the end, then you'll be saved. (Matthew 24:13)

You decide to apostate anytime during your transformation, the salvation is lost. You deny Christ, He will deny you. (2 Timothy 2:12, Matthew 10:33). It's all about your free will.

Sorry you feel that way.

 

[Rick Otto]

Your question wasn't specific. Either I answer your question incorrectly or not answer it and save myself the embarrassment.



The scriptural truth is this. There WILL be a time in the future when "some" christians will stand before the antichrist and ask themselves this question: "do I let them cut my head off to avoid going to hell or do I take the mark of the beast and save my neck?" Me personally, I'm not gonna be here as my faith is being tested daily, (James 1:3-4, Romans 5:3-4, Romans 15:4, 1 Peter 2:20). But your faith will be tested in the future, (Revelation 13:10).

Revelation 20:4 ~ And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Revelation 13:7 ~ It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.

Daniel 7:25 ~ He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand For a time and times and half a time.

Than there's the OSAS crowd, and they'll probably be thinking "I'm saved, I can take the mark and still go to heaven, because nothing I do can refute eternal security!"

Based on the above scriptures, it's a legitimate question.

It's not legitimate because it assumes a saved (born again) would desire to so grieve the Spirit.

Reminds me of a story a guy in the metal shop told me about his boss sneaking around outside and peeping in the Windows to make sure no one was cheating by loafing. The boss did that because he was sure they were as dishonest as he was himself.

I have never made such a consideration to abuse God's mercy as you suggest is possible, and yes, I understand how answering my question about your oversimplifying perfectionism based on your eisegesis would be embarrassing.
Enjoy!

 

[com7fy8]

If you (whether you really do or not) followed/accepted/etc. the doctrine of 'Once Saved Always Saved' and someone of the same belief came to you struggling with a lot of sin in their life and contemplating/doubting over their salvation...

what would you tell them?

Well, what I hear is, oh I could sin in any way, at all, and still I would go to Heaven. I would question this, because the Bible says our Father corrects His children.

"But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons." (Hebrews 12:8)

So, I would encourage the person to make an honest evaluation of if he or she has really trusted in Jesus (Ephesians 1:12, 2 Corinthians 13:5), and has not gone through some sort of a false conversion of maybe mainly copy-catting what someone else told him or her to do and pray, and then not really being perfected in God's love > 1 John 4:17.

A simple thing which might help would be to see if the person has kept on getting worse or if the person has made progress. It is good to not deny that we have been living in sin, if we have. Often enough, someone unsaved would not be concerned about this. So, if the person has trusted in Jesus and has made progress against sinning, but still can struggle and fail, I would encourage him or her to actively seek how our Father corrects us > Hebrews 12:4-11. And do not place so much responsibility on our own selves, but trust and depend on God to truly change us.

 

[Matthew Twentyfour]

This is a huge error. You should not equate 'eternal life' as 'relationship with God'. That is really confusing.

Oh you have no idea how wrong you are. Just because someone's comment isn't in-line with your view, it doesn't necessarily mean the person's wrong. The smart thing to do is to investigate first before replying. The good news is, this give other readers a chance to understand what it is.

To be exact, Eternal Life is a relationship with God/Jesus because they both come to live within us as the holy spirit. This is found in John 14:23. However, you will not receive the holy spirit unless you first do His commandments. This is found two verses prior in John 14:21.

Eternal Life has two meanings in the bible. Sometimes the bible will also use it to indicate immortality but generally it's a relationship with God/Jesus through Jesus. The voice of the holy spirit is Christ.

A) The biblical view of Eternal Life:

John 17:3 explains eternal life as coming to know God and Christ. (this implies a relationship) Same thing in 1 John 17:3, that we may come to know Him: a relationship. In 1 John 5:10-13, that we will have life with Christ. He's the voice of the holy spirit and will lead you into all truth. (John 16:13, John 8:32, Matthew 11:29)

Jesus said in Revelation 3:20 "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me." This is what 1 John 5:10-13 is talking about, Christ coming to have a personal relationship: "that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life"

John 17:3
And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

1 John 5:10-13
10 He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. 11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

Here's a question. If eternal life is immortality living in heaven in the future and not a relationship with God/Jesus you can have right now on earth, why does Acts 13:48 indicate they already have eternal life?

Acts 13:48
Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

Here's another question. We've been taught that salvation comes by receiving Christ as Lord and Savior. Why would Matthew tell us eternal life can be attain by leaving our families and residency?

Matthew 19:29
And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.

Same thing here in the parable of the young rich man. We've been taught that salvation comes by receiving Christ as Lord and Savior. But Jesus tells him he can have eternal life by following the 10 commandments.

Matthew 19:16-19
16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One,that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’



B) The external view (audio) of Eternal Life:

C) The external view of Eternal Life:

https://carm.org/dictionary-eternal-life

Eternal life is the life everlasting in the presence of God. "This is eternal life, that they may know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent," (John 17:3).

There are two senses in which this is used. First, Christians possesses eternal life (1 John 5:13), yet they are not in Heaven or in the immediate presence of God. Though man is still in his mortal body and he still sins, however, by faith man is saved (Rom. 4:5, Eph. 2:8-9) and possesses eternal life as a free gift from God (Rom. 6:23). Second, eternal life will reach its final state at the resurrection of the believers when Christ returns to earth to claim His church. It is then that eternal life will begin in its complete manifestation, especially seen in that man will no longer sin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_life_(Christianity)

In Christianity, eternal life traditionally refers to continued life after death, as outlined in Christian eschatology. The Apostles' Creed testifies: "I believe... the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting." In this view, eternal life commences after the second coming of Jesus and the resurrection of the dead, although in the New Testament's Johannine literature there are references to eternal life commencing in the earthly life of the believer, possibly indicating an inaugurated eschatology.

According to mainstream Christian theology, after death but before the Second Coming, the saved live with God in an intermediate state, but after the Second Coming, experience the physical resurrection of the dead and the physical recreation of a New Earth. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states, "By death the soul is separated from the body, but in the resurrection God will give incorruptible life to our body, transformed by reunion with our soul. Just as Christ is risen and lives for ever, so all of us will rise at the last day." [4] N.T. Wright argues that "God's plan is not to abandon this world... Rather, he intends to remake it. And when he does, he will raise all people to new bodily life to live in it. That is the promise of the Christian gospel"[5]

In the Synoptic Gospels and the Pauline Letters, eternal life is generally regarded as a future experience, but the Gospel of John differs from them in its emphasis on eternal life as a "present possession".[6][7] Raymond E. Brown points out that in the synoptic gospels eternal life is something received at the final judgment, or a future age (Mark 10:30, Matthew 18:8-9) but the Gospel of John positions eternal life as a present possibility, as in John 5:24.[8]

Thus, unlike the synoptics, in the Gospel of John eternal life is not only futuristic, but also pertains to the present.[2][6][7] In John, those who accept Christ can possess life "here and now" as well as in eternity, for they have "passed from death to life", as in John 5:24: "He who hears my word, and believes him that sent me, has eternal life, and comes not into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."[3] In John, the purpose for the incarnation, death, resurrection and glorification of The Word was to provide eternal life to humanity.

http://www.gotquestions.org/what-is-eternal-life.html

When the Bible speaks of eternal life, it refers to a gift of God that comes only “through Jesus Christ our Lord” (Romans 6:23). This gift is in contrast to the “death” that is the natural result of sin.

The gift of eternal life comes to those who believe in Jesus Christ, who is Himself “the resurrection and the life” (John 11:25). The fact that this life is “eternal” indicates that it is perpetual life—it goes on and on and on, with no end.

It is a mistake, however, to view eternal life as simply an unending progression of years. A common New Testament word for “eternal” is aiónios, which carries the idea of quality as well as quantity. In fact, eternal life is not really associated with “years” at all, as it is independent of time. Eternal life can function outside of and beyond time, as well as within time.

For this reason, eternal life can be thought of as something that Christians experience now. Believers don’t have to “wait” for eternal life, because it’s not something that starts when they die. Rather, eternal life begins the moment a person exercises faith in Christ. It is our current possession. John 3:36 says, “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life.” Note that the believer “has” (present tense) this life (the verb is present tense in the Greek, too). We find similar present-tense constructions in John 5:24 and John 6:47. The focus of eternal life is not on our future, but on our current standing in Christ.

The Bible inextricably links eternal life with the Person of Jesus Christ. John 17:3 is an important passage in this regard, as Jesus prays, “Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.” Here, Jesus equates “eternal life” with a knowledge of God and of the Son. There is no knowledge of God without the Son, for it is through the Son that the Father reveals Himself to the elect (John 17:6; 14:9).

This life-giving knowledge of the Father and the Son is a true, personal knowledge, not just an academic awareness. There will be some on Judgment Day who had claimed to be followers of Christ but never really had a relationship with Him. To those false professors, Jesus will say, “I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!” (Matthew 7:23). The apostle Paul made it his goal to know the Lord, and he linked that knowledge to resurrection from the dead: “I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead” (Philippians 3:10–11).


The most important thing to know is you cannot a relationship with God/Jesus without Him coming to live within you through the holy spirit. Without the holy spirit within you, there is no relationship whatsoever, period!

There's two ways that I know of how a Christians can attain the holy spirit. The easiest way is to do what Christ said in Matthew 19:16-19 (the parable of the young rich man). The second way is to go through tribulations until you've come to the end of yourself, feeling lost, hopeless and totally defeated with life. That's when Jesus will said "Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." (Matthew 11:28) Then you will begin to know Jesus personally as He reveals Himself/God. (Matthew 11:27) And will teach you all truth. (Matthew 11:29, John 16:13, John 8:32).

Take the easy route and do the commandments as He advised in Matthew 19:16-19, and continue praying for the holy spirit as you do the commandment in obedience. Otherwise He will humble you for past sins until there's reverence before He comes.

 

[Matthew Twentyfour]

Sorry you feel that way.

Don't be. It's better I tell you this now no matter how abrupt or harsh it can sound than later when Christ say to those other Christians "depart from Me, I never knew you." Matthew 7:23, Matthew 25:41, Matthew 25:12

Read what I wrote in post 52 about eternal life. No one can get saved unless they first enter into eternal life (a relationship) with God/Christ. Otherwise He'll just tell you "I don't know you." The way to start the relationship is to get the holy spirit to come to you. When they come to live with you, that's when the relationship starts. That's also when Christ begins to reveal all truth to you. "Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." John 8:32. Then you will know many things about the bible you never knew before and discern what's true from what's false. None of us here on CF will be able to convict anyone the heresies of OSAS no matter how many bible verses we show as evidence, but you will know when the holy spirit is in you. You will know the truth. The holy spirit is an extremely powerful advocate of truth. John 16:13, John 16:8

By the way, you cannot have a relationship (eternal life) with God or Jesus and not know the truth. And you cannot be born again of the spirit (sons and daughters of God) without knowing God and Christ intimately. You first have to have the holy spirit within you before you can have a relationship, and you cannot be born again without knowing who God and Jesus are without the relationship.

But just keep in mind, you don't have a lot of time as the tribulation isn't that far away. Do the commandments and pray for the holy spirit.

 

[Psalm3704]

.

 

[Matthew Twentyfour]

Salvation from sin is not because of obedience.

You really need to take the things He said more seriously. Salvation or overcoming sin doesn't come by doing nothing. Believing by acting on what He said is part of being obedient. He's very specific on the verses below in an ultimatum fashion. Unless you do this and that, you will not go to heaven.

Revelation 3:5
He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

Matthew 5:20
For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Notice He said "unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven?" He does not say "unless your faith exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven?" He's only concerned about your works. The works you do is in obedience to His commandment of loving others. Your works is evidence of your faith. James 2:18

Matthew 18:3
and said, "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

And in Revelation 20:12 and Matthew 25:34-45, He gives us a glimpse of how He will judge us when He returns and also those who stands before God during the great white throne. Nothing there mentions being saved by faith.

Everyone will be judged by their works only! Nothing mentioned about about faith during the judgements. It's all by works. Your works is evidence of your faith. James 2:18

Revelation 20:12
And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

Matthew 25:34-45
34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did itto one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’

 

[Rick Otto]

Don't be. It's better I tell you this now no matter how abrupt or harsh it can sound than later when Christ say to those other Christians "depart from Me, I never knew you." Matthew 7:23, Matthew 25:41, Matthew 25:12

Read what I wrote in post 52 about eternal life. No one can get saved unless they first enter into eternal life (a relationship) with God/Christ. Otherwise He'll just tell you "I don't know you." The way to start the relationship is to get the holy spirit to come to you. When they come to live with you, that's when the relationship starts. That's also when Christ begins to reveal all truth to you. "Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." John 8:32. Then you will know many things about the bible you never knew before and discern what's true from what's false. None of us here on CF will be able to convict anyone the heresies of OSAS no matter how many bible verses we show as evidence, but you will know when the holy spirit is in you. You will know the truth. The holy spirit is an extremely powerful advocate of truth. John 16:13, John 16:8

By the way, you cannot have a relationship (eternal life) with God or Jesus and not know the truth. And you cannot be born again of the spirit (sons and daughters of God) without knowing God and Christ intimately. You first have to have the holy spirit within you before you can have a relationship, and you cannot be born again without knowing who God and Jesus are without the relationship.

But just keep in mind, you don't have a lot of time as the tribulation isn't that far away. Do the commandments and pray for the holy spirit.

You have turned the effects of having been saved into requirements of performance in order to earn salvation.
That's not better, that is spiritual suicide by self deception.
So you still have my pity.

 

[Matthew Twentyfour]

You have turned the effects of having been saved into requirements of performance in order to earn salvation.
That's not better, that is spiritual suicide by self deception.
So you still have my pity.

No. I follow the teachings of the bible and what Christ said. Read the post above yours about Revelation 20:12 and Matthew 25:34-45. If you wish to ignore Christ's warning, why pity me?

Do you not know your works is the reflection of your faith? Or do you just believe Christ is the Son of God and there's only one God and now you're eternally saved?

 

[Teslafied]

I don't use labels like osas or lordship salvation, etc.

In order to be saved all one has to do is call upon the Lord Jesus Christ, that's it. Salvation is a free gift. When someone gives you a free gift, it's not truly free if there are strings attached.

Now may I add that a true conversion will bare some fruit over time, but I'd be careful in judging those who claim to be saved. Yes we can correct in love but we should never judge.

It's not works that saves us, it's grace by faith in Jesus Christ.

I do believe we can lose our salvation but only if we choose to give it up by denouncing Christ and fully meaning it.

I used to be the type of Christian that judged anyone even professing Christians if they had sin in their life, I believed it took more than faith but it also took works. I believed at the time that we Christians were called to righteously judge, I would judge myself before others. I would tell those I judged that I had no sin in me because I "was not living in or practicing sin". Crazy thing is if we say we have not or will not sin we are a liar. Humans sin daily, so it's not fair to say that we don't sin or that we are not living in sin.

Once we open our eyes and truly realize that once we judge ourselves and even others we shall see that no man is free from sin but by the blood of Christ which is shed for all that believe.

I've listened to many sermons I was deep in the holiness lifestyle, so deep that when I slipped up I beat myself up over it.... I didn't give myself any grace and I began to hate myself. i felt like if I made a mistake God would turn into Thor or Zeus and hit me with a lightening bolt (just kidding about the Thor and Zeus part), but I was seriously afraid. See now I know God IS love and He can tell if someone has truly given their heart to Him or not.

Now I don't think we are given a license to sin purposefully , and the bible says the wages of sin are death but we must realize that if you are saved your sin would not kill you spiritually.

If faith took works then could you imagine if even some one who lives what they perceive as a holy lifestyle would happen to slip up and sin, and they died before they repented.... In their belief system they'd go to hell for sinning. That all makes no sense. Why do you think Christ shed His blood? Because He knew nobody on this earth but Jesus Christ could keep the law in its entirety it's just not humanly possible.

Jesus was the only man who lived a sinless life, He could have stoned the adulterer, in fact He was the only one who could have stoned her but He did not! Also when Jesus told her to go and sin no more, He was warning her of the lifestyle she was leading because sin leads to physical death and hardships in this life.
https://redeeminggod.com/go-and-sin-no-more/

Nobody can keep the law, Jesus gave is grace so we'd realize that. He wants us to admit we sin and admit we need Him, He did not come for the righteous but He came for the sinners. The self righteous folk live as if they have everything all under control as if they don't need Jesus anymore and that's wrong we all need Jesus. If any man says He does not sin or live in some sort of sin he is a liar.

 

[Teslafied]

Now I should add if we love Jesus truly love Him we should live better lives and avoid the bars, the strip clubs, so forth and so forth.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

I thought of a good question for those for OSAS. Lets say your wrong and all those people you know who were newer christians took your advice and beleived in OSAS. Now what do you do when you get to heaven and (since we answer for everything) God says "7 people which heard you tell them OSAS now are in hell because they died having left Me and christiainty. They died thinking they can be as evil/bad as they want and still get into heaven. Why would you lead others to a path that can make them hell bound?".