If women shouldn't speak at all in church....

[Almost there]

Very very old news and Old testament.

Welcome to the Good News!

27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

What did He say again?
There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female,
What?
There is neither ... male nor female,

For Whom?


arrén: male, man.
Original Word: ἄρσην, ενος, εν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: arrén

nor


thélus: female
Original Word: θῆλυς, εια, υ
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: thélus
Phonetic Spelling: (thay'-loos)
Short Definition: female

New International Version
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

New Living Translation
There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus.

English Standard Version
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Berean Study Bible
There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Berean Literal Bible
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

New American Standard Bible
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

King James Bible
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Men and women are designed differently by God. They do best when put in situations that benefit from their strengths and avoid where they are weak. My wife and I have taken on the roles as defined in the New testament and as demonstrated/confirmed in our lives and it has worked out VERY well.

I used to think that fairy tales that ended with "And they lived happily ever after" were full of baloney. But I've learned that it is real when the man is the man and the woman is the woman.

 

[SkyWriting]

Beware!

Peter spoke of

this?

- In everything, then,
- do to others as you would have them do to you.
- For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.
- Enter through the narrow gate.

The narrow gate is my only concern. In everything,

In everyhting
pas: all, every
Original Word: πᾶς, πᾶσα, πᾶν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: pas
Phonetic Spelling: (pas)
Short Definition: all, the whole, every kind of
Definition: all, the whole, every kind of.

 

[Almost there]

like i said its a 45 hour talking you will be proven wrong about the KJV

I disagree.

 

[LoveofTruth]

I admit. Some of those sayings do not pass the Royal test
of treating all others just as you would wish them to treat you.

Some violate the rules.

you mean they don't pass your bias test and personal war against the scriptures Paul wrote.

Paul wrote the holy scriptures and had Jesus Christ speaking in him. When Paul wrote he said he was writing the commandments of the Lord. If a person is a prophet or spiritual, they should acknowledge what he wrote as the commandments of the Lord. You have shown yourself not to be spiritual

and you attack Paul and fight against the truth.

Jesus said of Paul

Acts 9:15
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

 

[SkyWriting]

Men and women are designed differently by God. They do best when put in situations that benefit from their strengths and avoid where they are weak.

Lets stick to scripture and not switch biology or evolution if you wish to refute scripture.
I don't care what color your hair is or if you happen to be
born with the correct genitals, which some are not so lucky.
Lucky for the sexual oddities:

27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[LoveofTruth]

I disagree.

you have that right to disagree.

But to have many versions that all seem to say different things and use corrupted manuscripts that disagree with each other in thousands of places and to use so called "older manuscripts" that go against the oldest Ante Nicene fathers quotes that justify the manuscripts used for the KJV. it not wise and will make a man double minded in all his ways.

We are to speak the same things and have the same mind and the same judgement and no divisions in all things as Paul said in 1 Cor 1. How can this be done when confusion of created by many using different text that disagree with each other.

 

[SkyWriting]

you mean they don't pass your bias test and personal war against the scriptures Paul wrote.Paul wrote the holy scriptures and had Jesus Christ speaking in him. When Paul wrote he said he was writing the commandments of the Lord. If a person is a prophet or spiritual, they should acknowledge what he wrote as the commandments of the Lord. You have shown yourself not to be spiritual and you attack Paul and fight against the truth.Jesus said of Paul

I am not sure what exactly Paul wrote, nor care who wrote it.

If there is war, it is integral to the scriptures. Here is the test again:

- In everything, then,
- do to others as you would have them do to you.
- For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.
- Enter through the narrow gate.

And this is the back up for this one little section of scripture
the kind of backup plan you do not have in your quest
to dominate over woman...you only have a couple goto backups.

The scriptures as a whole carry far more weight than one-off opinions
in specific letters to specific churches in a specific time.
Note these 60 plus passages that stand behind do to others as you would have them do to you.

What Does the Bible Say About How To Equally Treat Your Wife, Neighbor, or Anyone for that matter?

You ain't got 60 passages supporting gender discrimination.
You got 2 or 3 to misapply history to your situation.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Why I Do Not Think the King James Bible Is the Best Translation Available Today[/URL]

you gave this site and this was said there

"And most would like to see the Trinity explicitly taught in 1 John 5:7-8. But most reject this reading as an invention of some overly zealous scribe."

this is an obvious error.

1 John 5:7 was quoted in the early days as evidence for that verse exist.

"But during this same time, we find mention of 1 John 5:7, from about 200 AD through the 1500s. Here is a useful timeline of references to this verse:

200 AD
Tertullian quoted the verse in his Apology, Against Praxeas

250 AD
Cyprian of Carthage, wrote, "And again, of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost it is written: "And the three are One" in his On The Lapsed, On the Novatians, (see note for Old Latin)

350 AD
Priscillian referred to it [Corpus Scriptorum Ecclesiasticorum Latinorum, Academia Litterarum Vindobonensis, vol. xviii, p. 6.]

350 AD
Idacius Clarus referred to it [Patrilogiae Cursus Completus, Series Latina by Migne, vol. 62, col. 359.]

350 AD
Athanasius referred to it in his De Incarnatione

398 AD
Aurelius Augustine used it to defend Trinitarianism in De Trinitateagainst the heresy of Sabellianism

415 AD
Council of Carthage appealed to 1 John 5:7 when debating the Arian belief (Arians didn't believe in the deity of Jesus Christ)

450-530 AD
Several orthodox African writers quoted the verse when defending the doctrine of the Trinity against the gainsaying of the Vandals. These writers are:
A) Vigilius Tapensis in "Three Witnesses in Heaven"
B) Victor Vitensis in his Historia persecutionis [Corpus Scriptorum Ecclesiasticorum Latinorum, Academia Litterarum Vindobonensis, vol. vii, p. 60.]
C) Fulgentius in "The Three Heavenly Witnesses" [Patrilogiae Cursus Completus, Series Latina by Migne, vol. 65, col. 500.]

500 AD
Cassiodorus cited it [Patrilogiae Cursus Completus, Series Latina by Migne, vol. 70, col. 1373.]

550 AD
Old Latin ms r has it

550 AD
The "Speculum" has it [The Speculum is a treatise that contains some good Old Latin scriptures.]

750 AD
Wianburgensis referred to it

800 AD
Jerome's Vulgate has it [It was not in Jerome's original Vulgate, but was brought in about 800 AD from good Old Latin manuscripts.]

1000s AD
miniscule 635 has it

1150 AD
minuscule ms 88 in the margin

1300s AD
miniscule 629 has it

157-1400 AD
Waldensian (that is, Vaudois) Bibles have the verse

1500 AD
ms 61 has the verse

Even Nestle's 26th edition Greek New Testament, based upon the corrupt Alexandrian text, admits that these and other important manuscripts have the verse: 221 v.l.; 2318 Vulgate [Claromontanus]; 629; 61; 88; 429 v.l.; 636 v.l.; 918; l; r.

 

[LoveofTruth]

I am not sure what exactly Paul wrote, nor care who wrote it.

Like I said this same warning goes out to you

Beware!

Peter spoke of you

2 Peter 3:15, 16 KJV
And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."

 

[SkyWriting]

Peter spoke of you

2 Peter 3:15, 16 KJV
And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."

He was speaking to a church and discussing actual events.
We are not required to repeat any of history.
Maybe you'll get mad and bury my body in the sand.
You are not required to do what Moses did.

 

[LoveofTruth]

in specific letters to specific churches in a specific time.

"33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. 34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. 36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? 37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.(1 Cor 14:33-38 KJV)

1 Corinthians 4:17
For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful inthe Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church."

again consider where these things were taught

"as I teach every where in every church."

and when paul was writing 1 Cor he was writing to all believers everywhere as well, as we read

"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:"(1 Cor 1:2 KJV)

 

[LoveofTruth]

He was speaking to a church and discussing actual events.
We are not required to repeat any of history.
Maybe you'll get mad and bury my body in the sand.
You are not required to do what Moses did.

Paul wrote scripture and we read that

2 Timothy 3:16 17 KJV
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

 

[LoveofTruth]

He was speaking to a church and discussing actual events.
We are not required to repeat any of history.
Maybe you'll get mad and bury my body in the sand.
You are not required to do what Moses did.

Just curious are you a woman or a man.

I think you might be a man

 

[Almost there]

He was speaking to a church and discussing actual events.
We are not required to repeat any of history.
Maybe you'll get mad and bury my body in the sand.
You are not required to do what Moses did.

A music minister at a large church once told me that, regarding nuances of instructions in the bible to Christians, that the more knowledgeable a person is regarding Christianity and the history of the bible, the less sure they are of their position on the subject.

This came up because I had recently moved to KY where, as a member of a southern gospel band, I visited a LOT of the smaller Baptist churches around here and they almost universally had two things in common:
1. You could not discuss any doctrine with them. They believed what they believed and would suffer no "serious" discussion.
2. They were all KJV only.

This music minister got his position from being around all the Christian college professors that attended his church.

There is a reason it is said that few leave seminary with their faith intact. I talked to my senior pastor about this just last sunday and not only did he agree but he said there is a lot of stuff he learned about the lack of evidence behind what he is teaching in the church that if he actually got into detailed preaching about it, a lot of members would stick their fingers in their ears and not accept it, and possibly change churches.

People forget that the new testament is not a single volume. Rather, it is four "after the fact" accounts of the life and times of Jesus, a history book (ACTS), a bunch of letters to churches and individuals, and a dream/vision. It should be seen as very useful for teaching but should not be worshiped. And the good news it that Christianity is not about the letter of the law. It is about the spirit of the law. Accept his free gift, and love your neighbor as your self. You will do well.

 

[LoveofTruth]

A music minister at a large church once told me that, regarding nuances of instructions in the bible to Christians, that the more knowledgeable a person is regarding Christianity and the history of the bible, the less sure they are of their position on the subject.

This came up because I had recently moved to KY where, as a member of a southern gospel band, I visited a LOT of the smaller Baptist churches around here and they almost universally had two things in common:
1. You could not discuss any doctrine with them. They believed what they believed and would suffer no "serious" discussion.
2. They were all KJV only.

This music minister got his position from being around all the Christian college professors that attended his church.

There is a reason it is said that few leave seminary with their faith intact. I talked to my senior pastor about this just last sunday and not only did he agree but he said there is a lot of stuff he learned about the lack of evidence behind what he is teaching in the church that if he actually got into detailed preaching about it, a lot of members would stick their fingers in their ears and not accept it, and possibly change churches.

People forget that the new testament is not a single volume. Rather, it is four "after the fact" accounts of the life and times of Jesus, a history book (ACTS), a bunch of letters to churches and individuals, and a dream/vision. It should be seen as very useful for teaching but should not be worshiped. And the good news it that Christianity is not about the letter of the law. It is about the spirit of the law. Accept his free gift, and love your neighbor as your self. You will do well.

and always remember

2 Timothy 3:16 17 KJV
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

God give other ways to be perfect also. He does this through the body ministry, (Eph 4:11-16 KJV) , and through God working directly in every believer to make them perfect ( Hebrews 13:20,21 KJV), and he uses the scriptures. All three are needed.

 

[LoveofTruth]

I visited a LOT of the smaller Baptist churches

and Baptist churches generally also have errors about eternal security, and the gifts of the spirit, God's order in the church, body ministry, registration with the government , one man pastor error, paid ministers error, programs for gatherings error, etc to name a few.

But many believers are among them never the less.

 

[Almost there]

and always remember

2 Timothy 3:16 17 KJV
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

God give other ways to be perfect also. He does this through the body ministry, (Eph 4:11-16 KJV) , and through God working directly in every believer to make them perfect ( Hebrews 13:20,21 KJV), and he uses the scriptures. All three are needed.

Yep. That is the scripture I was quoting when I said it is good for teaching. And doctrine, reproof, correction and instruction can all be boiled down to "teaching".

 

[LoveofTruth]

Yep. That is the scripture I was quoting when I said it is good for teaching. And doctrine, reproof, correction and instruction can all be boiled down to "teaching".

and here is another one to add there

1 John 2:27
"But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."

your almost there

 

[he-man]

If women shouldn't speak at all in church, not even to sing as the logical conclusion would be since singing is a fancy way of talking, nor should they even so much as ask for clarification on a topic of discussion, why should women even be so much as bodily present in the church, period?

Since they cannot interact during services (if Paul's words are to be taken at face value and literally without trying to make them say something different so as not to offend modern feminist opinions), they are really a distant presence there anyway, like furniture.

The church then is really only a place for men to interact in, not women. If women cannot even understand what is being taught, why are they even there to begin with? If the husband can teach doctrine at home, what is the point of women wasting pew space? They aren't really wanted there even by the logical implication of Paul's (and God's) own words.

Other than taking communion, I see no compelling reason why I as a woman should be required to attend church at all then (in fact I am being more obedient in not polluting it by interacting with it at all under the logical implication of this doctrine, as women will drag down the assembly due to being more prone to deception and usurping the authority of men, even by merely speaking any idea at all, which could easily come from Satan like with Eve. By not being there, I cannot possibly destroy the church ever with my naturally evil female tendencies if I simply stay at home and learn doctrine from a man outside the assembly entirely).

Some website online (I don't have the source now, sorry) argued that the word for ecclessica or assembly is male-only, and the church is indeed really only for men, and women aren't meant to have any influence there at all. Not to speak and not to vote, and of course, not to teach or hold any kind of position of authority.

Women speaking is shameful, and therefore, women being an active presence there is shameful too. If they *must* come, they should act like they don't exist while sitting there, taking God's Word logically, honestly, and literally. So, why should women be there at all? After all, they are more prone to deception and false teaching, and could be tempted to usurp the rightful authority of men even just by sitting there with their mere presence....I really ask this question for those who DON'T believe women should speak in church, ever, like Steve Anderson. However, other opinions are welcome...

ΟΚ check it out: 1 Corinthians 11:3-16; the man is head of the woman just as Christ is head of the assembly. The woman was created fo the man and if her hair is long, it is a glory covering and there is no such custom in the assemblies as to womens hair but it is a sign that she is under the power of her husband, 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 awomen should be quiet in the assembly with no babbling or bustle and if they wish to learn ask their husbands at home. It is important to see that with God there is no distinctionbetween male and female as Galations 3:28 points out. Why is this the rule? Genesis 3:16 tells you that it is the Law. Also men love your wives as you do yourself and wives love your husbands for we are all children of God.

 

[Almost there]

ΟΚ check it out: 1 Corinthians 11:3-16; the man is head of the woman just as Christ is head of the assembly. The woman was created fo the man and if her hair is long, it is a glory covering and there is no such custom in the assemblies as to womens hair but it is a sign that she is under the power of her husband, 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 awomen should be quiet in the assembly with no babbling or bustle and if they wish to learn ask their husbands at home. It is important to see that with God there is no distinctionbetween male and female as Galations 3:28 points out. Why is this the rule? Genesis 3:16 tells you that it is the Law. Also men love your wives as you do yourself and wives love your husbands for we are all children of God.

Yep. Usually when the bible seems to contradict itself, what is contradictory turns out to be our incorrect interpretations of what it means. I've found when I changed my core perspective on an issue, suddenly a bunch of "contradictory" scripture is in complete harmony.