If selection pressure waned and waxed, such that the species started again: what'd you do better?

[Shemjaza]

I think that's harsh.

Do I berate you that you haven't memorized scripture, while discussing things on a Christian forum? Do I say "why aren't you learning scripture?"

Have a bit of a chill - sit and think "What is it that I wish the average person would believe about Evolution? Do I understand it, from their perspective?"

It's not necessary that you memorise the details about evolution... I just wish you would try to listen when people honestly try to explain that your statements are false.

 

[Gottservant]

That's not how selection pressures work. Selection pressures do not 'favour' one population or another, selection pressures just act. It's a continuous thing. Stop thinking of evolution of something with intent or agency, it doesn't have either. It's just an action, not a being.

It's an "action" and not an "agent" (which is capable of action, by definition) and that doesn't strike you as odd?

But yet you "evolve" as a better and better action? That makes sense to you?

I think you misunderestimate how much you are conflating context with intent, to make your point??

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

It's an "action" and not an "agent" (which is capable of action, by definition) and that doesn't strike you as odd?

But yet you "evolve" as a better and better action? That makes sense to you?

I think you misunderestimate how much you are conflating context with intent, to make your point??

I think that you're deliberately being obtuse. You can have an action without an agent. An agent implies will and desire, evolution has none of those things. It's just a natural reaction to something that happens in nature.

 

[Gottservant]

Everybody is a Genius. But If You Judge a Fish by Its Ability to Climb a Tree, It Will Live Its Whole Life Believing that It is Stupid

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

QUOTE FROM EINSTEIN

Yes... and? You, as a human, have the definite capability to learn, but you seem to lack the drive or desire, or even the wish, to learn about that you which you claim to want to learn about.

 

[Gottservant]

I think that you're deliberately being obtuse. You can have an action without an agent. An agent implies will and desire, evolution has none of those things. It's just a natural reaction to something that happens in nature.

Yeah but what you have to understand is that you are asking me to believe that Evolution has the greater authority concerning the beginning and should take precedence in my understanding of what "began".

I can't pretend to understand Creation less, unless you give me a good reason to/that or you do better than Creation, at what Creation already does.

There is a place in my heart for "Creation", you can't just ask me to replace what is in my heart.

Why do you think I keep asking what's in "your heart" (in terms of Evolution)?

Or are you going to just say "its impossible to keep Evolution in your heart" (please?)?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Yeah but what you have to understand is that you are asking me to believe that Evolution has the greater authority concerning the beginning and should take precedence in my understanding of what "began".

I can't pretend to understand Creation less, unless you give me a good reason to/that or you do better than Creation, at what Creation already does.

There is a place in my heart for "Creation", you can't just ask me to replace what is in my heart.

Why do you think I keep asking what's in "your heart" (in terms of Evolution)?

Or are you going to just "its impossible to keep Evolution in your heart (please?)?

I'm not asking you to replace anything in your heart. Again, as I have said REPEATEDLY: evolution is not a religion. It's just a descriptor of biological fact. That's all it is. Why do you fail to, or just not to, understand this simple concept?

 

[Gottservant]

Why can't you just vary how you adapt?

Why do you say "I have to mutate it first" - it's a lie?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Why can't you just vary how you adapt?

Why do you say "I have to mutate it first" - it's a lie?

Because a being has no control over their adaptations or their mutations. Adaptations and mutations are biological reactions to the natural environment around them.

 

[Gottservant]

Because a being has no control over their adaptations or their mutations. Adaptations and mutations are biological reactions to the natural environment around them.

And if I force a species to focus on part of its environment, the way Jacob did, I can't control where or how much it responds to it?

I mean Jacob did this, long before people knew about genetic manipulation, right?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

And if I force a species to focus on part of its environment, the way Jacob did, I can't control where or how much it responds to it?

I mean Jacob did this, long before people knew about genetic manipulation, right?

Except that Jacob didn't because that is not something that is biologically possible. You cannot make animals change their fur pattern by making them look at sticks.

 

[Gottservant]

Except that Jacob didn't because that is not something that is biologically possible. You cannot make animals change their fur pattern by making them look at sticks.

That's Evolution?

He did it to a population?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

That's Evolution?

He did it to a population?

Except that it's not because it's not factual. You cannot force an animal to change their offspring's colour in one single generation via having them mating in front of striped branches. It's biologically and genetically impossible.

 

[Gottservant]

Except that it's not because it's not factual. You cannot force an animal to change their offspring's colour in one single generation via having them mating in front of striped branches. It's biologically and genetically impossible.

Again, we find that it happened.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Again, we find that it happened.

Except that we didn't. We're just told via the Bible that it happened, and that's it. The Bible is the claim, not the evidence.

 

[Gottservant]

Wait.

You believe with the right selection pressure/s, any thing could evolve in to anything else?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Wait.

You believe with the right selection pressure/s, any thing could evolve in to anything else?

Yes, it is possible, as long as it follows the laws of biology.

 

[Gottservant]

Yes, it is possible, as long as it follows the laws of biology.

I'm starting to get why I have such a hard time believing "Evolution".

Answer me seriously now, why do you believe this (that anything goes), but you are uncomfortable with it being repeated (as in, apes becoming men then apes again)?

I mean it really looks like you are developing a pathology of duplicity or convenience, I can't tell which?

Maybe tell me this, when did you start to realize that you could put mutation in context, using Evolution? What was your first thought of "I can mutate, survivably"? EDIT: What "context" did you start to give the possibility of mutation?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I'm starting to get why I have such a hard time believing "Evolution".

Answer me seriously now, why do you believe this (that anything goes), but you are uncomfortable with it being repeated (as in, apes becoming men then apes again)?

I mean it really looks like you are developing a pathology of duplicity or convenience, I can't tell which?

Maybe tell me this, when did you start to realize that you could put mutation in context, using Evolution? What was your first thought of "I can mutate, survivably"?

Because you're suggesting 'devolution', a concept that that isn't biologically possible. Animals cannot regress back to what came before them in their evolutionary lineage.

The reason you have a hard time with evolution is that you continually keep trying to make it more difficult than it already is in your attempt to look intelligent.

 

[Gottservant]

Because you're suggesting 'devolution', a concept that that isn't biologically possible. Animals cannot regress back to what came before them in their evolutionary lineage.

The reason you have a hard time with evolution is that you continually keep trying to make it more difficult than it already is in your attempt to look intelligent.

But we are talking about one nerve, in the brain, right?

The nerve that says "this is possible", is the same nerve that says "this can be repeated"?

How would you recognize a new evolution, if you couldn't recognize an old one?