if Harry Potter were real he would be going to hell

[God's Word]

You can't sow your wild oats and then pray for crop failure.

Interesting signature. Since you keep on "sowing" the idea that there are "good witches", "good wizards" and "Christian witches and wizards", I guess that this is the type of "crop" that you're after.

 

[A New Dawn]

Interesting signature. Since you keep on "sowing" the idea that there are "good witches", "good wizards" and "Christian witches and wizards", I guess that this is the type of "crop" that you're after.

Does this mean that you don't have a response so you are making it personal?

 

[God's Word]

Does this mean that you don't have a response so you are making it personal?

No, it just means that you ought to take heed to your own chosen signature. You'll reap what you sow and you've repeatedly sowed the idea that there are "good witches", "good wizards" and "Christian witches and wizards". Is this what you want people to believe? Seems so. Incidentally, "evil" ought to be fought by the power of the HOLY SPIRIT and not by any form of "magic".

 

[Amber the Duskbringer]

<staff edit > ?

Offtopic but I love the Tardis in your avatar

 

[frankleespeaking]

It appears in fiction sin does not exist, in fantasy sin does not count, one is free to embrace all the things that God says He is against, and He finds detestable, simply lay it under the banner of makebelieve, and you can do it all, love it all, have it all. and even then you can say God doesn't care what I think, or find enjoyment in, He doesn't care what I sow in my mind and heart, when its fiction and fairytales....anything goes

 

[God's Word]

It appears in fiction sin does not exist, in fantasy sin does not count, one is free to embrace all the things that God says He is against, and He finds detestable, simply lay it under the banner of makebelieve, and you can do it all, love it all, have it all. and even then you can say God doesn't care what I think, or find enjoyment in, He doesn't care what I sow in my mind and heart, when its fiction and fairytales....anything goes

Some here certainly do seem to be of this mindset. Whatever happened to:

I Thessalonians 5:22

"Abstain from all appearance of evil."

???

 

[A New Dawn]

Offtopic but I love the Tardis in your avatar

Thanks! We have a Dr. Who Club here if you are interested. http://www.christianforums.com/t7405992/

 

[A New Dawn]

It appears in fiction sin does not exist, in fantasy sin does not count, one is free to embrace all the things that God says He is against, and He finds detestable, simply lay it under the banner of makebelieve, and you can do it all, love it all, have it all. and even then you can say God doesn't care what I think, or find enjoyment in, He doesn't care what I sow in my mind and heart, when its fiction and fairytales....anything goes

Again, you are speaking from a position of not having read the books you are complaining about. Luckily for us, we are able to distinguish between fact and fantasy, and read books that have a moral plot, even if they are set in fantasy, and enjoy them and not believe that we are worshiping evil while doing so. Some of us are lucky to be able to distinguish between reality and fiction that way.

 

[God's Word]

Originally Posted by God's Word

Paul didn't think that fortune telling/divination was "crud". He dealt with it in its proper manner by casting the spirit of divination (literally, the spirit of Python) out of the soothsayer in Jesus Christ's name.
​

What, are you telling me that a demon was actually telling people their futures? Demons lie, < staff edit > , and none knew it better than St. Paul. He put a stop to the lying, deceiving crud that the demon spewed through that poor girl by chucking the demon out.

BTW, what leads you to the belief that demons are somehow little gods who through their magical powers can tell the future? There's nothing, at all, in Scripture that even suggests any such thing.

You missed my point...whether accidentally or deliberately, I cannot tell. My point was/is that there is a demonic element to "fortune telling" and it's not just "crud" IN THAT SENSE. Along these same lines, I could also remind you of what was behind at least some of the false prophets in the Old Testament. Do you recall the following:

II Chronicles 18:18-22

"Again he said, Therefore hear the word of the LORD; I saw the LORD sitting upon his throne, and all the host of heaven standing on his right hand and on his left. And the LORD said, Who shall entice Ahab king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one spake saying after this manner, and another saying after that manner. Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will entice him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the LORD said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so. Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee."

???

Of course, I understand that "demons lie", BUT that was actually my point. Yes, they were telling people their futures, BUT they were actually sent to deceive such people. Why then would you defend such a practice and insist that it's only "fantasy"? It isn't.

I understand that there are differences of opinions as to whether or not this was really Samuel who was "brought up" or just a familiar spirit, but, in either case, someone/something was "brought up" and he/it accurately foretold the future.

Look at the witch's reaction when Samuel showed up. She was scared purple. And Samuel, as always a prophet speaking the word given to him by the Lord, laid the word of the Lord on Saul.

Now you may thing that demons, being little gods, can drag the blessed out of the presence of the Lord, and you may believe, based on nothing at all in Scripture, that demons can tell the future. Both are simply your notions, and worth precisely the price charged, springing from long held superstition that attributes "powers" to diabolical creatures.. I believe neither one, as there is no Biblical basis for believing any such thing.

Once again, scripture DOES plainly state that demons can and do tell the future, only in a deceitful way. Why wouldn't you then warn folks about staying away from things that glorify "fortune telling" and the such when it clearly has a demonic element to it at times? Also, why would you ridicule those who do sound such a warning? Anyhow, in this specific case, it very well could have been Samuel who was "brought up". Doesn't matter, though. Once again, you missed my point. GOD is the one who referred to such people as this woman who is commonly known as "the witch of Endor" as those who have a familiar SPIRIT. < staff edit > In other words, such a practice means that the practicioner has SPIRITUAL help or DEMONIC assistance. You seem to have no problem with such a REALITY and mockingly pass it all off as "fantasy". Your prerogative. Me? I'll stick with the scriptural warnings against such and warn others of the same.

IOW, necromancy, according to the Bible, is NOT "crud".

Necromancy is yet another lying deceit that leads peple away from God. It is not, as superstition would have it, dragging people back from the dead to ask them questions.

Again, it's a "lying deceit" BECAUSE there are LYING, DECEITFUL SPIRITS or DEMONS attached to it. According to the Bible, we cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of devils/demons. I couldn't care less whether or not anyone can genuinely "drag people back from the dead to ask them questions" or not. The point is that by even attempting to do so, one enters into the realm of the DEMONIC...a realm which is clearly forbidden by God Himself.

Didn't Harry Potter have contact with his dead parents? Sounds just like the type of necromancy that's condemned in the Bible to me.

Just try to bear in mind that HP doesn't exist. Bible, fact; HP, fiction. < staff edit > .

Just try to bear in mind that familiar SPIRITS do exist.

You believe that Pharaoh's magicians turned their rods into serpents (Exodus 7:11-12), turned the waters that were in the rivers to blood (Exodus 7:22) and covered the land of Egypt with frogs (Exodus 8:7) all by "the sleight of hand"?

Illusion is the stock in trade of magicians. Unless, of course, you're one of those folks who believe that David Blaine can actually levitate...

Ah, the old switcheroo. Who's talking about David Blaine? Certainly not me. Anyhow, there was a lot of type/foreshadow involved in the account of Moses' rod swallowing up the magicians' rods. Moses' rod was a type of Christ:

Exodus 4:1-8

"And Moses answered and said, But, behold, they will not believe me, nor hearken unto my voice: for they will say, The LORD hath not appeared unto thee. And the LORD said unto him, What is that in thine hand? And he said, A rod. And he said, Cast it on the ground. And he cast it on the ground, and it became a serpent; and Moses fled from before it. And the LORD said unto Moses, Put forth thine hand, and take it by the tail. And he put forth his hand, and caught it, and it became a rod in his hand: That they may believe that the LORD God of their fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath appeared unto thee. And the LORD said furthermore unto him, Put now thine hand into thy bosom. And he put his hand into his bosom: and when he took it out, behold, his hand was leprous as snow. And he said, Put thine hand into thy bosom again. And he put his hand into his bosom again; and plucked it out of his bosom, and, behold, it was turned again as his other flesh."

These are two of the signs that the LORD gave unto Moses to prove that He had truly sent him and they both point directly to Christ. When the LORD told Moses to cast his rod on the ground, that was a type of Christ being sent by His Father to come down to this earth. When the rod turned into a serpent, it was similar to the serpent that was lifted up on a pole in the wilderness in that it foreshadowed Christ's crucifixion when He took upon Himself the sin of the world or all of our followings after Satan whom the serpent represents. When Moses' rod, which had become a serpent, swallowed up all of the magicians' serpents, this foreshadowed/prefigured Jesus Christ swallowing up all of Satan's power, including the swallowing up of death. IOW, the magicians' "power" wasn't merely an "illusion" as you suggest, but it was Satanic in its origin. When Moses' rod was picked up again, it foreshadowed Christ's return to His Father in heaven. Similarly, Moses' initial removing of his hand from his bosom was a type of Christ leaving the bosom of the Father and coming to this earth. Once removed from the bosom, the hand became leprous. This, once again, prefigured Christ's taking upon Himself the sin of the world. When Moses' hand was returned to his bosom, the hand was restored to its original form. This symbolized Christ's return to glory at the right hand of the Father after His resurrection and ascension back to heaven.

 

[frankleespeaking]

Again, you are speaking from a position of not having read the books you are complaining about. Luckily for us, we are able to distinguish between fact and fantasy, and read books that have a moral plot, even if they are set in fantasy, and enjoy them and not believe that we are worshiping evil while doing so. Some of us are lucky to be able to distinguish between reality and fiction that way.

I see that! I see also that sin does not exist in fantasy and when reading stories of fiction, the characters can do anything for that matter and still be called good. because in fiction the bible is no longer the guide in which truth is discerned.......he is a subtle beast

 

[frankleespeaking]

I wonder how far someone could take this idea, if the bible and the words of God are not used to judge what is good or evil, someone could write a whole fictional novel about satan being a misunderstood angel and that he is in fact good, and somehow God is the one who is in error. And in all likelyhood the same folks that cheer for the good wizard Harry and his practising witchcraft friends would also be cheering that poor betrayed lucifer who got a bad deal from the tyrant God. and even in fantasy and fiction you would see no wrong in this depiction, because after all its not real

 

[abysmul]

Thanks! We have a Dr. Who Club here if you are interested. http://www.christianforums.com/t7405992/

Ohhhh I did not know that! On my way!

 

[A New Dawn]

I wonder how far someone could take this idea, if the bible and the words of God are not used to judge what is good or evil, someone could write a whole fictional novel about satan being a misunderstood angel and that he is in fact good, and somehow God is the one who is in error. And in all likelyhood the same folks that cheer for the good wizard Harry and his practising witchcraft friends would also be cheering that poor betrayed lucifer who got a bad deal from the tyrant God. and even in fantasy and fiction you would see no wrong in this depiction, because after all its not real

There are books of that nature out there, have even been made into movies. Movies which I have refused to watch, and books which I have refused to read. That is because it actually does call evil good and good evil, unlike HP, which actually has a Christian basis. Some of us, as I said, are actually able to distinguish between them.

 

[frankleespeaking]

There are books of that nature out there, have even been made into movies. Movies which I have refused to watch, and books which I have refused to read. That is because it actually does call evil good and good evil, unlike HP, which actually has a Christian basis. Some of us, as I said, are actually able to distinguish between them.

And again you fail to see ALL FORMS OF WITCHCRAFT AND SORCERY ARE EVIL! yet when Harry does it, IT IS GOOD!..............this fantasy arguement your trying to back would be the same as someone standing up for cartoon porn, and saying its fine for Christians to watch because the characters aren't real, even better if someone were to put an ethical spin in the little fornicating characters, making their sin appear to be some ethical stand for goodness and high morals. what would be the difference between the two, neither is real, and its pure fiction at best

 

[Timothew]

And again you fail to see ALL FORMS OF WITCHCRAFT AND SORCERY ARE EVIL! yet when Harry does it, IT IS GOOD!..............this fantasy arguement your trying to back would be the same as someone standing up for cartoon porn, and saying its fine for Christians to watch because the characters aren't real, even better if someone were to put an ethical spin in the little fornicating characters, making their sin appear to be some ethical stand for goodness and high morals. what would be the difference between the two, neither is real, and its pure fiction at best

If Santa Claus were real he'd be heading off to hell.

He does magic too! "And laying a finger aside of his nose, up the chimney he rose".

Yet when Santa does it, IT IS GOOD!

 

[sbvd]

And again you fail to see ALL FORMS OF WITCHCRAFT AND SORCERY ARE EVIL! yet when Harry does it, IT IS GOOD!..............this fantasy arguement your trying to back would be the same as someone standing up for cartoon porn, and saying its fine for Christians to watch because the characters aren't real, even better if someone were to put an ethical spin in the little fornicating characters, making their sin appear to be some ethical stand for goodness and high morals. what would be the difference between the two, neither is real, and its pure fiction at best

Do you believe there is such a thing as witchcraft?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

If Santa Claus were real he'd be heading off to hell.

He does magic too! "And laying a finger aside of his nose, up the chimney he rose".

Yet when Santa does it, IT IS GOOD!

Pssst....don't tell the kids that!

http://www.christianforums.com/t30166/
How do you celebrate Christmas? [poll]

 

[frankleespeaking]

Do you believe there is such a thing as witchcraft?

what does the bible say?

 

[frankleespeaking]

If Santa Claus were real he'd be heading off to hell.

He does magic too! "And laying a finger aside of his nose, up the chimney he rose".

Yet when Santa does it, IT IS GOOD!

I didn't say that you did.

 

[Timothew]

I didn't say that you did.

What? I'm saying that since you are saying that the fictional character Potter is headed of to eternal torment for the sin of magic, logically Santa is following him for the same damnable sin.