if Harry Potter were real he would be going to hell

[ToBeInChrist]

I don't know what's so hard to get, really.

I want to reach out to Harry Potter fans, sure. I don't feel like going around trashing Harry Potter, wearing a sign about Harry Potter going to Hell outside of theaters. This is a Christian forum, so I'm expressing some things that occur to me AS A CHRISTIAN, about what God loves and hates, and about our hearts, and about not loving sin.

If someone who is non-Christian brought up Harry Potter, I might see where they go with the conversation, see if we can relate on something, and have a dialog, sure. I may or may not want to have some more knowledge of some popular phenomenon so I can discuss things with people, but there are plenty of ways to have dialog, I don't have to watch the latest slasher movie or Desperate Housewives to talk to people.

I don't have to find Harry Potter entertaining to reach people. I don't find it entertaining. I don't want to watch fiction where the main characters do what God hates over and over again, and what God hates is called good or entertaining. Period.

< staff edit > . Any Christian should be able to understand my references to Jesus' words about adultery in the heart, my concerns about the heart and entertainment.

 

[RETS]

I don't know what's so hard to get, really.

I want to reach out to Harry Potter fans, sure. I don't feel like going around trashing Harry Potter, wearing a sign about Harry Potter going to Hell outside of theaters. This is a Christian forum, so I'm expressing some things that occur to me AS A CHRISTIAN, about what God loves and hates, and about our hearts, and about not loving sin.

So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.

So stop judging each other. Instead, this is what you should decide: never put a stumbling block or obstacle in the way of your brother or sister. I know and I&#8217;m convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is wrong to eat in itself. But if someone thinks something is wrong to eat, it becomes wrong for that person. If your brother or sister is upset by your food, you are no longer walking in love. Don&#8217;t let your food destroy someone for whom Christ died. And don&#8217;t let something you consider to be good be criticized as wrong. God&#8217;s kingdom isn&#8217;t about eating food and drinking but about righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit. Whoever serves Christ this way pleases God and gets human approval.


So let&#8217;s strive for the things that bring peace and the things that build each other up. Don&#8217;t destroy what God has done because of food. All food is acceptable, but it&#8217;s a bad thing if it trips someone else. It&#8217;s a good thing not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything that trips your brother or sister. Keep the belief that you have to yourself&#8212;it&#8217;s between you and God. People are blessed who don&#8217;t convict themselves by the things they approve. But those who have doubts are convicted if they go ahead and eat, because they aren&#8217;t acting on the basis of faith. Everything that isn&#8217;t based on faith is sin.

Romans 14:12-23​

​

If someone who is non-Christian brought up Harry Potter, I might see where they go with the conversation, see if we can relate on something, and have a dialog, sure. I may or may not want to have some more knowledge of some popular phenomenon so I can discuss things with people, but there are plenty of ways to have dialog, I don't have to watch the latest slasher movie or Desperate Housewives to talk to people.

Ready? What jumps out in the next section of this post?

I don't have to find Harry Potter entertaining to reach people. I don't find it entertaining. I don't want to watch fiction where the main characters do what God hates over and over again, and what God hates is called good or entertaining. Period.

< staff edit > You are correct. None of these things do you HAVE to do. You are not forced to do any of these things. Nor do you have to to be able to talk to the fans of such things. It can help, but it is not a must for YOU.

< staff edit > . Any Christian should be able to understand my references to Jesus' words about adultery in the heart, my concerns about the heart and entertainment.

Oh, I understand this. I understand it very well. I was in a church led by people with the same mindset, only they did not stop at "this is MY conviction." They continued demanding that THEIR conviction become the conviction of ALL.

I do understand what Christ said about adultery in the heart- I may even understand it better than you, in a first person kind of way. I don't know.

However, I also know what the Lord speaks to me, as a unique follower. I also know that what the Lord speaks to me, He may not speak to you. You stated earlier:

...from being seduced by things which He has reveals that He hates...

< staff edit > . I am going to point out that we are not all seduced by the same things. Thus, while I may be able to "drink wine," you may not be able to do so. Therefore, when around you, I will not drink so as not to be a stumbling block for you.

However, whereas you may have been a drunk, perhaps I have been addicted to other things- Let us say legalism. So, I will not drink around you, and you will not be legalistic around me, so as to avoid being stumbling blocks to one another.

I will quote this once more, because it's relevant, it's true, and it needs to be repeated:

But those who have doubts are convicted if they go ahead and eat, because they aren&#8217;t acting on the basis of faith. Everything that isn&#8217;t based on faith is sin.

Romans 14:23​

​

 

[cubinity]

The problem is that we get hung up on vocabulary.
The Bible talks about something it calls witchcraft, and we have something we call witchcraft.
The one in the Bible is bad, so ours, and everything associated with it must be bad, too.
And then, as an alternative, we seek out entertainment options that give us and our kids equivalent stimulus, with synonymous themes, but disguise it under different vocabulary.
Hey, we say, it's not called "witchcraft," so it's a healthy alternative, right?
We should judge things based on their content and themes, not on the labels and vocabulary we place on them.

 

[God's Word]

I sincerely feel sorry for some people who have participated in this thread. It's rather obvious that some cannot/will not address the actual points made, but, instead, must continually erect their strawmen and then defend them. It has REPEATEDLY been stated by some (myself included) that this issue has absolutely nothing to do with OUR OWN "weaknesses", yet this is what the strawmen erectors keep on insisting to justify their own self-serving behavior. Rather, our objections are pretty much two-fold:

1. We ought to detest what GOD detests.
2. We ought not let our "Christian liberties" become stumblingblocks FOR OTHERS.

In spite of such being plainly stated ad nauseum, the strawman erectors just keep on arguing their ficticious points. Perhaps some truly cannot deal with reality and therefore live in a world of fantasy. I've seen enough evidence of such on this thread to seriously consider such a possibility.

 

[God's Word]

No. I already addressed that aspect of his post when I noted that the Lord finds such things as are glorified in the Potter books/movies to be ABOMINABLE. The HOLY GHOST will never direct one towards or excuse that which is UNHOLY.

Interesting. Genesis 12:17-19 | 1 Samuel 28

Just two examples of the Lord using, directing and excusing things and means which He found abominable.

Genesis 12:17-19

"And the LORD plagued Pharaoh and his house with great plagues because of Sarai Abram's wife. And Pharaoh called Abram, and said, What is this that thou hast done unto me? why didst thou not tell me that she was thy wife? Why saidst thou, She is my sister? so I might have taken her to me to wife: now therefore behold thy wife, take her, and go thy way."

And? Sarai could rightly be called Abram's sister...

Genesis 20:10-13

"And Abimelech said unto Abraham, What sawest thou, that thou hast done this thing? And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God is not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake. And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife. And it came to pass, when God caused me to wander from my father's house, that I said unto her, This is thy kindness which thou shalt shew unto me; at every place whither we shall come, say of me, He is my brother."

...so what's your point?

As far as the incident involving Saul, the woman with the familiar spirit and Samuel is concerned, the jury is still out on that one. IOW, there are two diametrically opposed opinions on this one. One group insists that it wasn't Samuel who was called up, but rather a familiar spirit which was impersonating Samuel. The other group insists that it truly was Samuel who was called up. Let's go with the position which best suits you and assume that it truly was Samuel. And? Does this help your position in any way, shape or form? No, it does not. What were the direct results of Saul consulting a woman with a familiar spirit? Well, here are some of them:

1. Israel was defeated in battle (I Samuel 31:1).
2. Saul and his three sons were killed (I Samuel 31:8).
3. Saul was BEHEADED and his body was fastened to a wall (I Samuel 31:10).
4. Saul's body (no mention of his head that I know of) was later retrieved and his bones were burned and then buried (I Samuel 31:12-13)

Be sure to mention these facts the next time that you're witnessing to your friends about "the shadow of Christ" in the Harry Potter books/movies, okay? What a sad day for Christianity when professing Christians see "good witches", "good wizards", "Christian witches and wizards" and "a shadow of Christ" in a sorcerer. God help us...

 

[heymikey80]

Raise your hand if you think God's just judgment of your actions won't land you in Hell.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Raise your hand if you think God's just judgment of your actions won't land you in Hell.

I guess that would also beg the question:

http://www.christianforums.com/t43270-2/#post800482
Can a CHRISTIAN go to HELL?

This is not a OSAS debate. Think long and hard before answering. Can a Christian, someday, astonishingly find themselves falling through the GATES OF HELL???

 

[God's Word]

We are ALSO to pray for the body of Christ. DAILY.

I cannot answer for anyone else here, but I do pray for people on this forum all of time...even as I pray for myself.

 

[brinny]

I cannot answer for anyone else here, but I do pray for people on this forum all of time...even as I pray for myself.

Amen my brother!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LOL! Amen.

Actually I was being pretty serious with that sis...but what the heck, if it gets a point across....I just can't believe this thread is still going! ehehe....

 

[God's Word]

< staff edit >

< staff edit > . Rowling's first installment in the Potter series was "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's (or Philosopher's) Stone". Going just by the title of the book, there's trouble already as the "Philosopher's Stone" was supposedly made by NICOLAS FLAMEL (sound familiar?), the man who also supposedly discovered "the elixir of life" in order to gain immortality. Nicolas Flamel is not only mentioned in Rowling's first Potter book, but he also has an entire chapter named after him. Here's an excerpt from that chapter:

Chapter 13 - Nicholas Flamel - Page 175 / Harry Potter The Sorcerer's Stone

"Thanks, Harry... I think I'll go to bed.... D'you want the card, you collect them, don't you." As Neville walked away, Harry looked at the Famous Wizard card.

"Dumbledore again," he said, "He was the first one I ever-" He gasped. He stared at the back of the card. Then he looked up at Ron and Hermione.

"I've found him!" he whispered. "I've found Flamel! I told you I'd read the name somewhere before, I read it on the train coming here -- listen to this: 'Dumbledore is particularly famous for his defeat of the dark wizard Grindelwald in 1945, for the discovery of the twelve uses of dragon's blood, and his work on alchemy with his partner, Nicolas Flamel'!" Hermione jumped to her feet. She hadn't looked so excited since they'd gotten back the marks for their very first piece of homework.

"Stay there!" she said, and she sprinted up the stairs to the girls' dormitories. Harry and Ron barely had time to exchange mystified looks before she was dashing back, an enormous old book in her arms.

"I never thought to look in here!" she whispered excitedly. "I got this out of the library weeks ago for a bit of light reading." "Light." said Ron, but Hermione told him to be quiet until she'd looked something up, and started flicking frantically through the pages, muttering to herself.

At last she found what she was looking for.

"I knew it! I knew it!" "Are we allowed to speak yet." said Ron grumpily. Hermione ignored him.

"Nicolas Flamel," she whispered dramatically, "is the only known maker of the Sorcerer's Stone!" This didn't have quite the effect she'd expected.

"The what." said Harry and Ron.

"Oh, honestly, don't you two read. Look -- read that, there." She pushed the book toward them, and Harry and Ron read: The ancient study of alchemy is concerned with making the Sorcerer's Stone, a legendary substance with astonishing powers. The stone will transform any metal into pure gold. It also produces the Elixir of Life, which will make the drinker immortal.

There have been many reports of the Sorcerer's Stone over the centuries, but the only Stone currently in existence belongs to Mr. Nicolas Flamel, the noted alchemist and opera lover. Mr. Flamel, who celebrated his six hundred and sixty-fifth birthday last year, enjoys a quiet life in Devon with his wife, Perenelle (six hundred and fifty-eight).

Here's a little background on Flamel:

Nicolas Flamel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nicolas Flamel (French pronunciation: [nik&#596;&#712;la fla&#712;m&#603;l]; September 28,1330&#8211;1418) was a successful French scrivener and manuscript-seller who developed a posthumous reputation as an alchemist due to his reputed work on the philosopher's stone.

According to the introduction to his work and additional details that have accrued since its publication, Flamel was the most accomplished of the European alchemists, and had learned his art from a Jewish converso on the road to Santiago de Compostela. As Deborah Harkness put it, "Others thought Flamel was the creation of 17th-century editors and publishers desperate to produce modern printed editions of supposedly ancient alchemical treatises then circulating in manuscript for an avid reading public."[1] The modern assertion that many references to him or his writings appear in alchemical texts of the 16th century, however, has not been linked to any particular source. The essence of his reputation is that he succeeded at the two magical goals of alchemy -- that he made the Philosopher's Stone, which turns lead into gold, and that he and his wife Perenelle achieved immortality through the "Elixir of Life".

Aside from the obvious references to ACHIEVING IMMORTALITY APART FROM CHRIST, I find it interesting to note the date of Flamel's birth and the date of the first publication of this book. Flamel was born in September of 1330 and Rowling's book was first published in June of 1997.

Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone is the first novel in the Harry Potter series written by J. K. Rowling and featuring Harry Potter, a young wizard. It describes how Harry discovers he is a wizard, makes close friends and a few enemies at the Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry, and with the help of his friends thwarts an attempted comeback by the evil wizard Lord Voldemort, who killed Harry's parents when Harry was one year old.

The book was published on 30 June 1997 by Bloomsbury in London, while in 1998 Scholastic Corporation published an edition for the United States market under the title Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone.

IOW, Flamel, who's still alive in Rowling's book (remember his "elixir of life"), is now 666 years old. In fact, Rowling acknowledges this by saying:

Mr. Flamel, who celebrated his six hundred and sixty-fifth birthday last year, enjoys a quiet life in Devon with his wife, Perenelle (six hundred and fifty-eight).

Is it a "happy coincidence" that Rowling's book, which bears Flamel's work in its title, was published 666 years from the date of his birth? Personally, I doubt it. Not only are the contents of Rowling's books demonic, but I'd personally have no trouble believing that the timing of her book was demonically inspired as well.

Anyhow, I'm not here to offer my exegesis on Rowling's works. I'd much rather discuss the HOLY GHOST INSPIRED SCRIPTURES...and that's what I plan on doing...on other threads.

 

[sbvd]

And kids that's why you will always regret debating in a forum. Either nobody will post or it will be so crowded with posts that you'll lose track of what's anybody's saying

 

[RETS]

And kids that's why you will always regret debating in a forum. Either nobody will post or it will be so crowded with posts that you'll lose track of what's anybody's saying

No kidding, sbvd.


I'll just leave these here:

She didn't exactly get it in her education, but J.K. Rowling (42) is religious. It not only led her to acceptation of mortality, but also to seven mega-bestsellers...
...
But Harry is a sort of Jesus. He must die to rid humanity of evil. You made him into a messiah.
Yes, he does have certain messiah traits. I chose that on purpose. He is that one man in a million.. and I say "a man"because with women it's different who is able to stand up against the power, and who turns down powers control. That makes him the wisest of all.

Were you raised religiously?
I was officially raised in the Church of England, but I was actually more of a freak in my family. We didn't talk about religion in our home. My father didn't believe in anything, neither did my sister. My mother would incidentally visit the church, but mostly during Christmas. And I was immensely curious. From when I was 13, 14 I went to church alone. I found it very interesting what was being said there, and I believed in it.When I went to university, I became more critical. I got more annoyed with the smugness of religious people and I went to church less and less. Now I'm at the point where I started: yes, I believe. And yes, I go to the church. A protestant church here in Edinburgh. My husband is also raised protestant, but he comes from a very strict Scottish group. One where they couldn't sing and talk.

That you yourself go to church only makes the harsh criticism of your work by religious fanatics even more bizarre.
The past ten years there have always been fundamentalists who've had problems with my books. The fact that they feature magic and witchcraft is already enough, they despise them. I want nothing to do with fundamentalism, of any sort; it scares me. The Christian fundamentalists are especially active in the United States. One time I have been face to face with such a person. I was in a toy store with my children and I was recognized by a girl who got all excited. The next thing that happened was that a man came up to me and said 'Aren't you that Potter woman? After which he brought his face close to me and said very aggressively: 'I pray for you every evening.' I should have said that he'd better pray for himself, but I was stunned. It was very frightening.​

Now, I'll say this, and leave this thread alone, except in the event of a direct response:

This insanity over the Harry Potter series is not new; it is not without historical precedent.

This same response met The Da Vince Code; and Angels and Demons; and Jesus Christ Superstar. It even met the epics of Tolkien and most of Lewis' fiction, both of whom. Years from now, this series will be seen as yet another allegorical entry in the long lines of Christian fiction writings.

And the objections will, by and large, fade into obscurity- Exactly where they belong.

 

[A New Dawn]

< Staff edit > . Rowling's first installment in the Potter series was "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's (or Philosopher's) Stone". Going just by the title of the book, there's trouble already as the "Philosopher's Stone" was supposedly made by NICOLAS FLAMEL (sound familiar?), the man who also supposedly discovered "the elixir of life" in order to gain immortality. Nicolas Flamel is not only mentioned in Rowling's first Potter book, but he also has an entire chapter named after him. Here's an excerpt from that chapter:

Chapter 13 - Nicholas Flamel - Page 175 / Harry Potter The Sorcerer's Stone



Here's a little background on Flamel:

Nicolas Flamel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Aside from the obvious references to ACHIEVING IMMORTALITY APART FROM CHRIST, I find it interesting to note the date of Flamel's birth and the date of the first publication of this book. Flamel was born in September of 1330 and Rowling's book was first published in June of 1997.

Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



IOW, Flamel, who's still alive in Rowling's book (remember his "elixir of life"), is now 666 years old. In fact, Rowling acknowledges this by saying:



Is it a "happy coincidence" that Rowling's book, which bears Flamel's work in its title, was published 666 years from the date of his birth? Personally, I doubt it. Not only are the contents of Rowling's books demonic, but I'd personally have no trouble believing that the timing of her book was demonically inspired as well.

Anyhow, I'm not here to offer my exegesis on Rowling's works. I'd much rather discuss the HOLY GHOST INSPIRED SCRIPTURES...and that's what I plan on doing...on other threads.

Boy, you are really grasping at straws with the last bit there. Do you think she had this all written out years before and just waited till that year so it marked the 666th birthday of Nicolas Flamel? Did you know my high bowling series is 666? Is that demonic as well? I'm just wondering how far you are willing to take this.

 

[suzybeezy]

Well, we tried to keep the thread open, but some folks just couldn't resist engaging in the flames. Sorry, we have no choice but to close the thread.​