If booster is useless or worse, what is the point of any of this?

Yarddog

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We don't need one article to say everything! We can look at sports teams and cruise ships and etc that were 1000% vaccinated and still got hit hard!
A cruise ship with over 6000 people on board but having less than 50 guests test positive with Covid-19 isn't getting hit hard. The vaccines are over 90% effective in preventing infection with the disease one could expect several hundred cases if a few passengers had breakthrough infections before boarding.
 
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Irkle Berserkle

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God kills babies for medicine now?
You do realize that the abortive stem cells used for medical research are well-identified? Moderna was developed (as I understand it) from a long line of stem cells dating from an abortion performed in the Netherlands in 1973. The lunatic fringe suggestion that these vaccines were developed with cells from abortions performed at Planned Parenthood clinics last week is nonsense. If you're going to be intellectually honest and carefully research and reject every medicine that has some reliance on abortive tissue in its development, you're going to pretty quickly find yourself telling your doctor "I guess I'll just die now, doc, because I can't take that stuff."

No one could be more unalterably opposed to abortion than I. The fact is, that's how some of these vaccines and medicines were developed. I assume God would have preferred they be developed by other means, but they weren't. While remaining unalterably opposed to abortion, I'm not going to die over the fact that abortive stem cells were used in the development of life-saving vaccines and medicines. Christians who make these sorts of arguments are never consistent in their positions, and those positions inevitably paint them into a corner of logical absurdities.
 
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Daniel of Sweden

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How far? Well, as far as rational thinking, healthy living and medical science will allow me. Why would I do otherwise? Even if I thought the pandemic were a plague sent by God, why would I not do my best to survive it? Is there some merit in not resisting disease because I suspect it might be a plague sent by God? Even if that were true, why I would I not also believe the development of Moderna was facilitated by God to protect those with ears to hear and eyes to see? These kind of arguments that attempt to turn medical issues into religious ones just never hold together rationally.

I think it's a matter of Belief. You believe that the events of the world is determined by physical things(?). But I believe things are determined by the unseen.
I can't change much, since I'm just a human being. The only thing I can do is to Believe that Jesus will save me, and Heaven will lift me up.
So, why should I, really, put needles into my body, when I can simply avoid it. It may cost me my Life (comfort, daily acitivites, etc), but my True life is with Jesus Christ anyhow. I do not need the world, and therefore I do not need to take the vaccine. I know the Lord will provide a solution.
 
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Irkle Berserkle

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I think it's a matter of Belief. You believe that the events of the world is determined by physical things(?). But I believe things are determined by the unseen.
I can't change much, since I'm just a human being. The only thing I can do is to Believe that Jesus will save me, and Heaven will lift me up.
So, why should I, really, put needles into my body, when I can simply avoid it. It may cost me my Life (comfort, daily acitivites, etc), but my True life is with Jesus Christ anyhow. I do not need the world, and therefore I do not need to take the vaccine. I know the Lord will provide a solution.
This is starting to sound like the old joke where the guy on his roof in a flood keeps saying he'll "just trust the Lord," eventually drowns, and is greeted in heaven by the Lord saying "For crying out loud, I sent a fire truck with a ladder, a boat and finally a helicopter, you idiot!" (or something like that).

Perhaps Moderna might be one of the solutions the Lord has provided? I have no problem with you choosing to trust the Lord in the way that seems best to you - but, as others keep saying to folks like you, just don't insist on taking up space in the hospital if and when it all goes south.
 
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LeafByNiggle

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Moderna was developed (as I understand it) from a long line of stem cells dating from an abortion performed in the Netherlands in 1973.

Actually, they were only TESTED using stem cells from a line from 1973. As far as actual production, neither of the mRNA vaccines uses cell lines from abortions in any way whatsoever. In principle, they could have been produced totally without such cells.
 
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power1

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Hi @power1
Yes and many, many, many more, and many experts of other nations, say that it was the best way to attack the disease and try to bring it under control.
Great. So all that we have to do is chose which batch are lying.
Looking at stats in many places, we see that they are lies.

"
“As a result of how data is recorded by health units into public health information databases, the ministry is not able to accurately separate how many people died directly because of COVID versus those who died with a COVID infection,” Ontario Ministry of Health Senior Communications Advisor Anna Miller said to True North in an email.

“A death that occurs in an active case of COVID-19 is counted as a COVID-19 death.”
Ontario counts suicide victims as COVID-19 fatalities

What a steaming pile of uknowwhat.


If we should have done nothing, as I suppose some of your experts will be suggesting, then why are we still suffering with the disease? I mean, if doing nothing would have conquered it, surely the things that we did wouldn't overpower doing nothing.
To reasonably protect the at risk people is not doing nothing. To encourage and seek alternative treatments is not doing nothing. To stop giving foolish advice (ever changing contradictory advice as well) over masks would be doing something. To triple ensure that all major public advocates of the lockdown agenda are not benefiting from it somehow is doing something. To keep people working as much as possible and protect freedom and quality of life is doing something. To have the drug companies liable for all death and side effects would be doing something. etc


Sometimes one needs to sit back and think through from beginning to end 'what' some plan would entail and how it would have come out. So, let's sit back and say let's do nothing. Let's not formulate vaccines. Let's not distance or mask. So, if we should have done nothing and it would all go away on its own...why is it still here? Think that through.
Let's not force people to take experimental gook that the producers insisted that they cannot be held responsible for! Let's not pretend possibly overused masks protect us. Some say wearing chicken wire on your face would keep viruses out as much! Let's protect the at risk without robbing freedom and going full monte nazi! Let's not censor medical opinion that differs from big brother! Let's use alternative treatments that are shown to save lives if people want them! etc. Let's tell the bullies to go to hell.


BTW from the historical evidence, pretty much everyone is at risk, so who should we not have isolated?
The biggest risk in some people's minds is the vaccine and agenda! Stop thinking you have any right to force isolation. Give us liberty or give us death. Protect those who actually are at risk and use life saving treatments, and do not ruin people's last days on earth preventing them from seeing loved ones etc.
 
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power1

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You do realize that the abortive stem cells used for medical research are well-identified?
It is not identifying them that I mind. It is using them in the first place!

Moderna was developed (as I understand it) from a long line of stem cells dating from an abortion performed in the Netherlands in 1973. The lunatic fringe suggestion that these vaccines were developed with cells from abortions performed at Planned Parenthood clinics last week is nonsense. If you're going to be intellectually honest and carefully research and reject every medicine that has some reliance on abortive tissue in its development, you're going to pretty quickly find yourself telling your doctor "I guess I'll just die now, doc, because I can't take that stuff."
You don't get it. It is still based on research using those murdered unborn people.
No one could be more unalterably opposed to abortion than I. The fact is, that's how some of these vaccines and medicines were developed.
We know.

I assume God would have preferred they be developed by other means, but they weren't.
Then don't blame them on God!

While remaining unalterably opposed to abortion, I'm not going to die over the fact that abortive stem cells were used in the development of life-saving vaccines and medicines.
But millions may (have already) died and got seriously injured using them!
Christians who make these sorts of arguments are never consistent in their positions, and those positions inevitably paint them into a corner of logical absurdities.
False. Even God gives us the choice to receive His eternal life gift. Society these days is racing toward a Satanic dictatorship that seeks to force it's way on all.
 
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power1

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Actually, they were only TESTED using stem cells from a line from 1973. As far as actual production, neither of the mRNA vaccines uses cell lines from abortions in any way whatsoever. In principle, they could have been produced totally without such cells.
While I know we need to take what whistleblowers say with a grain of salt, I found this article interesting.

"Pfizer’s Manufacturing Quality Auditor Melissa Strickler turned over internal company emails to Project Veritas exposing Pfizer’s intent to withhold information about fetal tissue being used for the development of its COVID injection."
Infowars Article


So it becomes a matter of trust. Should I trust what pfizer says over a former employee? Knowing that that company was involved in one of the biggest trial in history for lying and injuring people, sorry, they are automatically distrusted.

List of largest pharmaceutical settlements - Wikipedia

Besides, to use research from babies you kill simply is not OK for me anyhow.
 
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Blade

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"
No country can boost its way out of the pandemic,” said the World Health Organization’s Secretary General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus Wednesday.

“Blanket booster programs are likely to prolong the COVID-19 pandemic, rather than ending it, by diverting supply to countries that already have high levels of vaccination coverage, giving the virus more opportunity to spread and mutate.”

Nor should a third dose of vaccine be seen as carte blanche, he added. “Boosters cannot be seen as a ticket to go ahead with planned celebrations.”

WHO warns booster campaigns prolonging pandemic

So neither shots nor boosters are an 'excuse' to enjoy gatherings..or seemingly anything else at all!

I've shared before about the scientist that worked on this drug at the start from the UK and talked about how we better hope they never ask for covid passports or then they can do what they want. They can make you get that booster shot or treat you as if you never got the shot.. heres just one.... Calf heal care workers required to get covid booster shot. Praise GOD here no one is required to get the booster. My wifes work treating it like the flu. There have been 3 I think over the past 4 months at her work that got covid. They stayed home about a week but.. yeah didn't just OH NO spread around the whole office lol. They sit in cubicles.. and ware masks.

Be it my son works with the deaf or my other that works for Lockheed. Haha..some big companies you would think that have FED workers are on top of this.. not at all. .. thats all I will say. So I rejoice with not getting the vaccine praise God.

I think the pill will make it easier for some. Well the US adds Merck Pill as 2nd easy to use drug against Covid. I praise God for that. As long as it works.
 
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power1

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I've shared before about the scientist that worked on this drug at the start from the UK and talked about how we better hope they never ask for covid passports or then they can do what they want. They can make you get that booster shot or treat you as if you never got the shot.. heres just one.... Calf heal care workers required to get covid booster shot. Praise GOD here no one is required to get the booster. My wifes work treating it like the flu. There have been 3 I think over the past 4 months at her work that got covid. They stayed home about a week but.. yeah didn't just OH NO spread around the whole office lol. They sit in cubicles.. and ware masks.

Be it my son works with the deaf or my other that works for Lockheed. Haha..some big companies you would think that have FED workers are on top of this.. not at all. .. thats all I will say. So I rejoice with not getting the vaccine praise God.

I think the pill will make it easier for some. Well the US adds Merck Pill as 2nd easy to use drug against Covid. I praise God for that. As long as it works.
I would not trust that at all, it is from the same people that make the vaccines. I wonder if they will be held responsible for deaths and injuries from the pill that they will make untold billions from?
 
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LeafByNiggle

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While I know we need to take what whistleblowers say with a grain of salt, I found this article interesting.

"Pfizer’s Manufacturing Quality Auditor Melissa Strickler turned over internal company emails to Project Veritas exposing Pfizer’s intent to withhold information about fetal tissue being used for the development of its COVID injection."
Infowars Article


So it becomes a matter of trust. Should I trust what pfizer says over a former employee?
You should not trust anything at all that is found only on InfoWars. EVER! As for "trusting Pfizer", it would be extremely difficult for Pfizer engineer a conspiracy in the face of all the government involvement in regulation and oversight. Plus, the incentive to hide this particular bit of information is not sufficient to justify the risk. The reputation of the company means so much more than the small short-term gain from making it "seem" that fetal tissue is used in the making of vaccine.
 
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power1

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You should not trust anything at all that is found only on InfoWars. EVER!
Maybe we should say the same for msbn or cnn etc?

As for "trusting Pfizer", it would be extremely difficult for Pfizer engineer a conspiracy in the face of all the government involvement in regulation and oversight.
Is that the government that they give big donations to etc? The government that can't whack babies fast enough and that absolves the drug companies from all responsibility? The government that helps suppress alternative treatments? Very suspicious.

Plus, the incentive to hide this particular bit of information is not sufficient to justify the risk.
That is your guess.
The reputation of the company means so much more than the small short-term gain from making it "seem" that fetal tissue is used in the making of vaccine.
Even if you are correct they still used the research.
 
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LeafByNiggle

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Maybe we should say the same for msbn or cnn etc?
No. They have a good reputation for truthfulness. InfoWars has none. In fact it has a reputation for falsehoods.

Is that the government that they give big donations to etc?
As the conspiracy theory is trying to be justified, we see here that it is necessary to hypothesize more and more levels of corruption, which makes the conspiracy theory less and less believable, which is something because it had no believability to begin with, so it ends up just being silly.

Even if you are correct they still used the research.
Yes, they (and most other pharma companies) did, and that is never to be condoned, and neither do I condone it. However there is a limit to how much perfection we demand from those we deal with, and a limit to the degree of moral culpability incurred by those whose connection to the original immoral act is more and more distant.'
 
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power1

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No. They have a good reputation for truthfulness. InfoWars has none. In fact it has a reputation for falsehoods.
? Seriously? You thought mainstream media had a good rep? No. I do not even look at those anymore. But you believe whom you like.

As the conspiracy theory is trying to be justified, we see here that it is necessary to hypothesize more and more levels of corruption, which makes the conspiracy theory less and less believable, which is something because it had no believability to begin with, so it ends up just being silly.
I see. So when people admit truth that is conspiracy and when they work hand in hand, covering stuff up, absolving the other of responsibility, and pouring money into mainstream media, that is accidental? Ha.

Do you think these people grieving in the article below are in a conspiracy also?

"Dozens of funeral portraits were displayed at Saturday’s demonstration at the government complex in Seoul. Protesters called for the government to identify the causes of adverse reactions and admit that vaccines are to blame."
61c8bc2a20302756a95c5129.png


Protests over post-vaccination deaths spread across South Korea


Yes, they (and most other pharma companies) did, and that is never to be condoned, and neither do I condone it. However there is a limit to how much perfection we demand from those we deal with, and a limit to the degree of moral culpability incurred by those whose connection to the original immoral act is more and more distant.'
When imperfect concoctions are mandatory and no accountability exists that is wicked as far as I am concerned.
 
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Irkle Berserkle

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It is not identifying them that I mind. It is using them in the first place!

You don't get it. It is still based on research using those murdered unborn people.
We know.

Then don't blame them on God!

But millions may (have already) died and got seriously injured using them!
False. Even God gives us the choice to receive His eternal life gift. Society these days is racing toward a Satanic dictatorship that seeks to force it's way on all.
  • Please document from reliable sources those "millions" of deaths and serious injuries you assert. (Safeway did put a Band-Aid on my arm - am I one of the serious injuries?)

  • From a very anti-abortion website (Human Life International), here are some of the vaccines and medicines that have been developed using lines traceable to human fetal tissue. You have, of course, previously declined the smallpox, chickenpox and rabies vaccines as a matter of principle - right? I don't even mention things like Nestle coffee creamers. You can obtain the full list here: Human Life International (hli.org).
    • Adenovirus Types 4 and 7
    • Anemia
    • Angioplasty Thrombosis
    • Chickenpox
    • Cystic Fibrosis
    • Ebola
    • Hemophilia
    • Hepatitis A
    • HEP and Typhoid
    • Measles-Mumps-Rubella
    • Polio
    • Rabies
    • Rheumatoid Arthritis
    • Shingles
    • Smallpox
 
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power1

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Please, provide statistics from reliable sources about these "millions." Odd t

Please prove millions were not adversely affected?
I already posted a link earlier about a doctor (with many published papers) that cited some numbers.

"He said that more than 200 million Americans have responded to the government's call to get vaccinated, but the CDC's database records nearly 1 million reports of vaccine injuries, which McCullough previously has estimated could be only one-fifth the true total. Other studies estimate it's much higher.

Top doctor scolded by Biden for COVID 'lies': 'I'm just giving Americans the data'

So, if the actual total is much higher than 5 million in the US alone, let's say it may be 15 million.

Who knows? There are no stats on true numbers.

Looking at Korea, they are grieving over dead loved ones. Do you think they are in the stats??

"Dozens of funeral portraits were displayed at Saturday’s demonstration at the government complex in Seoul. Protesters called for the government to identify the causes of adverse reactions and admit that vaccines are to blame."
Protests over post-vaccination deaths spread across South Korea

As for news sources, do not question sites I choose to look at. You do not get to dictate who speaks truth.
 
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Irkle Berserkle

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[STAFF EDITED DELETED QUOTE]
Two radio hosts I generally like and who seem generally rational, David Wheaton of The Christian Worldview and Sandy Rios of American Family Radio, are absolutely obsessed with this issue, to the extent I can't even listen to them anymore. It's a bizarre blend of political/economic/medical/religious conspiracy theory in the name of Christianity that accomplishes nothing but to embarrass the faith. Wheaton and Rios, among others, sound completely unhinged.

Some of the worldwide reaction to Covid has been so extreme that I don't consider it completely irrational to question whether the crisis is being used in furtherance of a political/social agenda ("Never let a crisis go to waste," as the saying goes), but it's absurd to think the worldwide medical and medical research communities are part of it. There has scarcely been a disease, from cancer on down, where the lunatic fringe didn't insist the conventional treatments were bogus and there was some simple, secret remedy being hidden from us.

Laetrile, anyone? "Advocates for laetrile assert that there is a conspiracy between the US Food and Drug Administration, the pharmaceutical industry and the medical community, including the American Medical Association and the American Cancer Society, to exploit the American people, and especially cancer patients." Amygdalin - Wikipedia.
 
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LeafByNiggle

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? Seriously? You thought mainstream media had a good rep? No. I do not even look at those anymore. But you believe whom you like.
Mainstream media has existed for several centuries at least, and during that time it has proven more reliable when taken as an aggregate than any other single source of information. Regardless of what one thinks of mainstream media, one should always consider when a story is single-sourced as compared to a story that has multiple independent sources. If CNN were the only source for a story and all the other outlets were reporting the opposite, I would disbelieve CNN too. And here you have a InfoWars story that is confirmed by nobody else. That alone should raise a red flag.

I see. So when people admit truth that is conspiracy and when they work hand in hand, covering stuff up, absolving the other of responsibility, and pouring money into mainstream media, that is accidental?
This is called "begging the question" and it has been recognized as a logical fallacy since the time of Aristotle. (Begging the Question is when you assume what you are trying to prove is true in order to prove it is true.)

Do you think these people grieving in the article below are in a conspiracy also?
I have no idea if the "people" in the article are even real, or if they are, that what was reported about them is real.

"Dozens of funeral portraits were displayed at Saturday’s demonstration...
Portraits of people who may or may not have died prove nothing.
 
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power1

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Mainstream media has existed for several centuries at least, and during that time it has proven more reliable when taken as an aggregate than any other single source of information. Regardless of what one thinks of mainstream media, one should always consider when a story is single-sourced as compared to a story that has multiple independent sources. If CNN were the only source for a story and all the other outlets were reporting the opposite, I would disbelieve CNN too. And here you have a InfoWars story that is confirmed by nobody else. That alone should raise a red flag.
History aside it is obviously worthless today.

This is called "begging the question" and it has been recognized as a logical fallacy since the time of Aristotle. (Begging the Question is when you assume what you are trying to prove is true in order to prove it is true.)
I have no reason to doubt the tens of thousands of experts, whistleblowers and witnesses and victims that warn against what is going on. That is logical, period.

I have no idea if the "people" in the article are even real, or if they are, that what was reported about them is real.
I could say the same about your media
Portraits of people who may or may not have died prove nothing.
You doubting for no reason proves nothing.

I see in some places suicides are now listed as covid deaths! Ha
Ontario counts suicide victims as COVID-19 fatalities
 
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LeafByNiggle

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History aside it is obviously worthless today.
Not so. Past performance is best predictor of future behavior. Mainstream media, which is a combination of separate news sources, all competing for reputation, have done much better than any single source with no reputation over the past two hundred years of journalism, starting with the big national newspapers, then later radio and television networks. InfoWars has no such pedigree, and such a pedigree as it does have is for falsehoods.

I have no reason to doubt the tens of thousands of experts, whistleblowers and witnesses and victims that warn against what is going on. That is logical, period.
That might be true if there actually were tens of thousands of experts, whistleblowers and witnesses and victims that are saying what claim they are saying. But their aren't, despite InfoWars claims to the contrary.

I could say the same about your media
You could say it, but it would not be true, because the people that are reported about by the mainstream media can be confirmed by multiple independent sources. Not so with your InfoWars stories.
 
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