sevengreenbeans
Remember Yosef
"Us" refers to "people", in general. Can human beings, in general, look forward to a restoration of the 12 tribes to the House of Israel, without being condemned?
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Identity Chrisis: Slander
- Thread starter pat34lee
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"Us" refers to "people", in general. Can human beings, in general, look forward to a restoration of the 12 tribes to the House of Israel, without being condemned?
I'm Jewish(Israel) and live in the USA therefore I live outside the Land. Living outside the Land= living in the diaspora.
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We use the term Jew/Jewish. You object. But your objection means nothing since we are one people, and one nation.
It was not Babylon who 'lumped' us together. We are called children of Israel. One. We are called the children of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Again one. Jewish is a synonym for children of Israel which refers to all 12 tribes.
The silliness of this is you, and Two House, and British Israelism, and Christian Identity, all try to tell the Jewish people who we are. We know who we are and don't need anyone to tell us. The problem is, those who try to tell us we are not who we know we are, but our own culture and terms, are always trying to take away from who we are so they can claim to be us. That is replacement theology.
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The replacement theology with the 2 House etc goes way beyond that. If you listen to Staley he leads one to believe that they must somehow be an Israelite because 'how could a person believe in a Jewish Messiah and not be an Israelite?'
Then when these people believe they are Israelites that's when the replacement theology begins.
In even goes even broader and BECOMES MORE DANGEROUS Staley leads one to believe that salvation only applies to you being Israel. He sites Romans 11 to help prove his case. In other words his paraphrase is 'after the fullness of the Lost tribes then Israel will be saved'.
It totally takes Yeshua's Atonement out of the picture because the 2 House etc believes in an identity to be saved. This is absolute truth. I've debated with many Staley followers on forums and this is a fact that followers aren't aware of. Yeshua's Atonement for all human kind is taken out of the picture unless you believe you're of the Lost tribes.
Go to any 2 House discussion group and Yeshua isn't the focus, identity is the focus.
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You've obviously been spoon fed lies for so long that you can't even entertain the possibility that it is all wrong, even when the rabbis tell you themselves. So you ignore, objectify or distort anything that differs from your worldview. Seven isn't teaching replacement theology, nor am I, or most two house teachers. You, however, are saying that Judah has subsumed all tribes into itself (replacing their individual banners with its own), even though most are still missing. That hasn't happened because it cannot, as that is also replacement theology.
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So Paul was deceiving the people he taught? When he spoke of being grafted in, he could only mean one of two things. Either he was speaking of gentiles being grafted into Israel, or the dispersed Israel being grafted into Judah (wild into cultivated). Both are a problem if you believe that Israel no longer exists apart from Judah.
What does Romans 11 mean then?
They must not be very good followers then if they can't spot that as a lie. Staley does not teach that identity has anything to do with salvation. He says flat out that it has no bearing on who can be saved. Whether part of Israel or grafted in after salvation, we are all heirs to the promises.
Sounds like here, where you are making identity the focus.
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I am halfway through listening to the whole thing--for the third time! This time, though, I am outlining the presentation, and highlighting the questionable assumptions and the outrageous statements. I've found about four or five deceptions, now, which I constantly hear from Hebrew Roots people.
One of the worst is the anachronism that "Jews = Judah, and they represent 1/12 of the people who stood at Sinai." This statement is completely ahistorical, and causes people to confound the distinction between the tribe of Judah and the political nation of Judah.
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This is absolute obsurdity and proof that you have no clue about the truth. Judah is not all 12 tribes. Jews are all 12 tribes. Jew does not mean Judah. But this has been said at least 20 times on the forum. Jewish refers to children of Israel, which are all 12 tribes.
Two House wants to redefine the word to match their theology, but Jewish does not mean what Two House would like it to mean. There is so much dishonesty and misrepresentation put forth by Two House. Re-defining words in scripture to prove a theology is simply desception.
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Sincerly, if people want to slander, they'll do so regardless of anything said that doesn't agree with the narrative they propose. In practical example, there have been multiple times throughout the ages where others - from Jewish rabbis/sages (as far back as Josephus ) to Gentiles who noted that the Northern Kingdom itself never returned fully and that there's still a massive scattering present....and there was discussion on how many Gentile nations may have either had Crypto-Jews who laid low/eventually assimilated into the culture and Jewish/Hebrew heritage was forgotten - or they lost records of heritage of no fault of their own.
What often happens is that people ignorantly look at the label "Two-House" and assume that anything with that label is what represents all forms of thought that others had when it's similar....and that's no more logical than saying that an airplane must be the same as the birds which precedded it because folks used the language of flight/"flying" to describe their actions which were similar. It doesn't matter whether or not British Israelism - or the Wootens or Armstrong and others held similar thoughts about the Northern Kingdom being present amongst certain Gentile nations....for they were not the ones who originated the thought. And if they take things into a racist ideology (as they did) with saying the Jewish people are not Jewish and that other Gentile nations are the "true" Hebrews, it doesn't mean that it's logical (or considerate) to claim that all believing in Hebrew prescence amongst Gentiles are the same.
By the logic others use, there should be nothing wrong with saying that all Israeli Zionists of today who support Israel are the same as the British Zionists (many of which were racists) because of how they wanted to have a homeland - and there should be nothing wrong with saying that all Jewish people involved in heinous actions (from the slave trade to human trafficking in Israel and other events) are the same/representative of all Jewish people around the world because they so happen to believe that Jewish people are God's people. Guilt by association (as mentioned before) is a poor tatic in discussing historical issues.
The Messianic Jewish movement has experienced much of the same multiple times before when others automatically see where Hebrew Roots groups claim to be "Messianic" alongside Messianic groups treating Gentiles as second class - and in dealing with examining all other Messianic Jewish groups, the negative ones are associated automatically with Messianic Judaism at large because of sharing a common name...with it said by others "Well, they may not claim to be biased against Gentiles or hateful - but they're really all the same!!!!". Seen it way too many times when others do lazy actions by assuming a name alone is how to address something - be it with One Law, Jewish Roots or Talmud and many other things. What needs to be done is a case by case basis......and with Two-House, unless it can be shown that EVERY SINGLE group of Two-House has always supported Replacement Theology/anti-semitism, then anyone saying such is slandering fellow believers and will have to give an account to the Lord for that.
There are already plenty of Jewish people saying some of the same things as others associated with certain Two-House groups - and none of them are anti-semitic or demeaning of Jews because of such. Unless it is the case that those Jewish people are now not to be considered Jewish - and instead deemed as "traitors" to the cause, then people need to be honest on the matter.
I am aware of where others have written things on the issue such as the MJAA in their article on "The Ephramite Error" - and yet it is already the case that not all Messianic Jewish fellowships came close to agreeing with the arguments being applicable to all - and others noting where some of the arguments, although valid, did indeed take things out of the context they were in. Some will say that the MJAA is the final standard and thus nothing disagreeing with it should not be placed here in this forum- but of course, that goes back to some fundamental issue of how the MJAA IS NOT the standard here on this specific forum. As it is, some of the same people arguing against Two-House on the basis of the MJAA already are in disagreement with it when it comes to things such as claiming Messianic Jews shouldn't call themselves Christian - or saying that all Messianic Jewish fellowships are to be "One Law" for all......and the MJAA isn't flawless.
Just My Two Cents...
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Exactly right on every point.
Many people of the diaspora are forced to convert, one group among them - the Ethiopian sect. They are now known as Ethiopian Jews, due to conversion, but they called themselves Beta Israel - The House of Israel. There are many debates that go on among those descended from the 12 tribes, who keep their own ancient traditions alive, on whether to return to the Land of Israel at this time, because they are forced to accept Judaism and all its traditions and rabbinical teachings. They further lose their tribal identity (whether or not they know their tribe by name). They lose their own ancient traditions.
Ethiopian Jews blame Israeli racism for discrimination and price tag graffiti in Kiryat Malakhi
On that note, it has been the case that crowds of Ethiopian `Falash Mura` immigrants protested at an Israeli government decision not to admit more of their relatives because of a judgment that they had converted from Judaism to Christianity. For an insightful video I was able to come across on the issue of Ethopian Jews, one can investigate the following:
It often seems as if there are very few that discuss the issue of what's happening to Beta Israel....or the FALASHA Mura. Of course, I'm aware of others in Israel..but again, I don't see the issue broadcast often. Thankfully, coverage is being done on the issue elsewhere/others are becoming aware of the dual reality that the "persecuted Israelies" are involved in when it comes to proclaiming to the world how there's is a homeland for "Jews"/they are attacked on all sides and mistreated....and yet, behind the lines, much of the same is done to the very people with legitimate claims of Jewish blood.
For more info on the matter of those who are Black Jews:
- New Signs that Ethiopian Aliyah Will Resume
- Israels welcome for Ethiopian Jews wears thin
- The Jews of Africa -- The Beta Israel of Ethiopia
- The Rosh Pina Project (an alternative look at Messianic Jews): Call to blacklist Ethiopian Messianic Jews
- The Rosh Pina Project ( an alternative look at Messianic Jews ): Is Today's Jewish State Racist?
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<< Staff Edit >>
So
Here is 110b from ShemaYisrael and it is the same debate, will the 10 tribes ever return...because they hadn't
shemayisrael.co.il/dafyomi2/sanhedrin/insites/sn-dt-110.htm
2) THE FATE OF THE TEN LOST TRIBES
OPINIONS: In the Mishnah, Rebbi Akiva and Rebbi Eliezer argue
concerning the fate of the Ten Tribes that were exiled by Sancheriv in the times of first Beis ha'Mikdash. Rebbi Akiva says that the Ten Tribes will not return from their exile, basing his view on the verse that says, "And he exiled them to another land, [where they remain] like this day" (Devarim 29:27). Rebbi Akiva explains this verse to mean that just as a day passes by and never returns, so, too, the Ten Tribes will never return. Rebbi Eliezer states that they will return, and he explains that the verse is saying that just as the light of day comes after the darkness, so, too, the Ten Tribes will again shine after the exile.
The facts remain...do you have better evidence?
The prophecy of the Two Houses becoming One is a Last Days Prophecy, this alone proves It has not happened yet
Say unto them, Thus saith the ADONAY YHWH Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in Mine hand....And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one King shall be King to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all. Ez 37:19,22
So
Here is 110b from ShemaYisrael and it is the same debate, will the 10 tribes ever return...because they hadn't
shemayisrael.co.il/dafyomi2/sanhedrin/insites/sn-dt-110.htm
2) THE FATE OF THE TEN LOST TRIBES
OPINIONS: In the Mishnah, Rebbi Akiva and Rebbi Eliezer argue
concerning the fate of the Ten Tribes that were exiled by Sancheriv in the times of first Beis ha'Mikdash. Rebbi Akiva says that the Ten Tribes will not return from their exile, basing his view on the verse that says, "And he exiled them to another land, [where they remain] like this day" (Devarim 29:27). Rebbi Akiva explains this verse to mean that just as a day passes by and never returns, so, too, the Ten Tribes will never return. Rebbi Eliezer states that they will return, and he explains that the verse is saying that just as the light of day comes after the darkness, so, too, the Ten Tribes will again shine after the exile.
The facts remain...do you have better evidence?
The prophecy of the Two Houses becoming One is a Last Days Prophecy, this alone proves It has not happened yet
Say unto them, Thus saith the ADONAY YHWH Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in Mine hand....And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one King shall be King to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all. Ez 37:19,22
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Yes. This is the biggest of the half-dozen red flags I have identified so far in Staley's "Identity Crisis" video. He weaves together a number of redefinitions and anachronisms to build his doctrine from whole cloth.
Sadly, people buy into this junk, then think it is we who accept falsehood. Staley and his ilk prey upon the ignorant and gullible.
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Exactly I'm listening to it again and what he's doing from the beginning is redefinitions then bases his theology on the redefinitions.
Why people buy into this junk? He's a good speaker and he's hip. Probably the younger crowd he attracts.
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I think the video presentation has a couple of issues that either need to be clarified or that need to be done away with - as it concerns language wise. A lot of what he noted that others take issue with is interesting since many people against Two-House will simultaneously argue (based on what Paul said in Romans 11 and Ephesians 2) that Gentiles must be included into Israel to be a part of God's people - and thus, even when saying "We don't want any teaching which says Jews are replaced by Gentiles as being Israel!!!", it seems there's a lot of inconsistent arguing against a position since you only have 2 options:
1.) Gentiles are adopted into God's People - Israel - and thus on Equal Footing with the Jewish people as it concerns Israel..
Or
2.) Gentiles are adopted but on a sub-level with the Jewish people
Or
3.) Gentiles are included in Israel by adoption but they are allowed to have a Seperate Identity where the Lord works through them - with Israel and the Church being seperate and the Church taking dominance at certain times - the very thing people say they're against.
Or
4.) Gentiles are included into the Covenant with God's People Israel- and yet they have a different calling that the Jewish people (who make up Israel Remnant) and the Gentiles are not to walk in all aspects of the Hebrews lifestyle like the Hebrews did when God gave his standards to Israel - consistent with the ways that Gentiles (who converted) ended up being deemed as Hebrews/Jews and yet Gentile Foreigners amongst the Israelites were not expected to do the same as them ...with Gentiles outside of the community who served the Lord always being treated differently and seeing the Lord interact with them differently, as Paul and the other apostles noted.
Christ is central in all things...
One Messianic, Brother mpossoff, began an excellent dialouge on the subject not too long ago (here, here, here, here , here, here , here and here/here)...concerning what it means to be nourished by the Root.
Sadly, you have others (such as John Hagee) taking statements from Romans 11:25-26 (i.e., that all Israel will be saved) and other scriptures dealing with the Patriarchs/Root and assuming that to mean that most Jews are automatically saved in the name of Israel..and that ideology, Dual Covenant Theology, is a very deadly interpretation (more shared in here, here, here, here, here, here, here ). For more, there's an excellent article on the subject entitled Romans 1:18-25 Is Salvation Only Available for those who Profess Faith in Yeshua? - TNN Online. Additionally, apart from that, there're some good articles on the issue by John McKee that addresses what you noted earlier (concerning the claim that only physical sons of Jacob were considered "Israelites")....entitled "One Law as Replacement Theology - TNN Online and FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS C Commonwealth of Israel -TNN Online. Both address the ways many feel Gentiles in the movement seeking to live as believers who are physical descendants of Israel/Jacob are deemed to be taking what doesn't belong to them--and yet are often misunderstood when it comes to what Jacob/Israel represented.
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If I may say,
I think there are other ways of considering the Covenant dynamic - specifically in light of the fact being in Covenant with the Lord doesn't mean having the same relationship to the founder of the Covenant as others may have. Similar to how children in a large family (even blended family) do not all experience their father relating to them in the same way individually. All are loved and yet each has differing dynamics..
If going strictly by the ways that the apostle Paul defined Israel, there was always more than one paticular perspective and that has to be kept in mind above how we'd prefer it to be....as Israel was never just those who are a congregation coming together/practicing Torah.
When it comes to defining what the Church is (said to be His bride in Ephesians 5:26 ), it can be quick to assume that one must think Israel is automatically seperated from any type of marriage connection...but when seeing the entirety of God's Word, one can see the ways it makes sense.
Before going any further, it should be noted that the understanding of marriage within the scriptures often seemed to evolve/have differing implications throughout differing eras. I'm reminded of what occurred with the religious leaders trying to trap Jesus by discussing the laws of Moses in regards to divorce ( Deuteronomy 24:2-4 / Deuteronomy 24 )---as they were focused on what Moses gave in the law and the Lord brought them back to the focus of how things were MEANT to be....and why laws were given ( Matthew 19:7-9 / Matthew 19, Mark 10:4-6/ Mark 10 ). Where they had actually glorifed one aspect of what Moses said, the Lord made clear that a specific law was never given because the Lord wanted others to walk in that for all time...but rather, it was given since the people were corrupt/wouldn't honor him and a system had to be given to restrain the damage that could be done to others when marriage wasn't upheld. His original intention was for ONE MAN and ONE WOMAN together for life
The same thing goes for laws made about polygamy, as the Law stated that a man could take another wife as long as he still provided for his first wife (Exo.21:10). And for others who had multiple wives:
- Jacob married Leah and Rachel (Gen.29:23-30; 31:17; 32:22) and then he married Leah and Rachel's handmaids, Zilbah and Bilhahand (Genesis 30:1-24; 37:2)
- Judge Gideon had many wives and a concubine (Judges 8:30-31)
- Elkanah married Hannah and Peninnah (1 Sam.1:2)
- David married Abigail and Ahinoam (1 Sam.25:42-43; 30:18), then later took more wives (2 Sam.5:13) at Jerusalem (1 Chron.14:3)
- In 2 Sam.12:7-8, God gave David these multiple wives as a blessing, just as anointing him as king over Israel, protecting him from Saul, and giving him the house of Israel and Judah were also blessings from Him
- Ashur married Helah and Naarah (1 Chron.4:5)
- Shaharaim married Hushim and Baara (1 Chron.8:8)
- Abijah had 14 wives (2 Chron.13:21)
- Jehoiada the priest had 2 wives (2 Chron.24:3).
Moving on from there and connecting the concept of polygamy with what seems to be present in the NT, for all of those wondering "Why does the Bible seem to give instances multiple times of polygamy when one wife/one man was the standard Christ noted in Matthew 19/Matthew 19:5", in some senses it seems that the ways Israel and the Church are contrasted often seem to be in view of that. As said elsewhere, if I was playing the role of Devil's Advocate, I could make an argument that Polygamy plays out in the life of the Lord when seeing how He felt toward the Nation of Israel (His original Bride) and the Church made of both Gentiles/Jews (Remnant)---which is also called "Israel" in the spiritual sense.
Isaiah 50:1 reads...
"Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away."
Romans 11:1-5 clearly teach that God did NOT divorce Israel...
"I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace."
We read in the Old Testament book of Hosea that he never divorced Gomer for her continued adultery and unfaithfulness. .....for . Hosea pictures God, Who is longsuffering and forgiving (II Peter 3:9).
Some could consider Jeremiah 3:8 as showing how the Lord divorced Israel...
"And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also."
Doesn't Jeremiah clearly say that God divorced Israel? Of course...although it seems best to see divorce as a seperation from them AS A NATION; but not as His people. This Scripture must be reconciled with Hosea's refusal to divorce Gomer and the Scriptures in Romans 11:1-5. God divorced the NATION of Israel (as termination of a business agreement); but NOT His children (saved Jews). For God never forsakes His own (Hebrews 13:5)...and because of Israel's rebellion, God instead decided to turn to the Gentiles to do His business of preaching the Gospel (and they did); but God never divorced His own.
Sadly, many in Replacement Theology assume that the Church has REPLACED Israel---although anyone understanding of Messianic Judaism realizes that the Church was meant to exist alongside Israel and what the Lord would do through her. Both Israel and the Church have UNIQUE Roles to play in His Kingdom---with both being considered collectively as "THE BRIDE" of Christ since all people trusting in the Lord are His beloved He'll return for ( John 3:28-30, Revelation 19:6-8/ Revelation 19 /Revelation 21:8-10 /Revelation 22:16-18 ...more discussed here and here in #113 on the that reality of what Christ meant when he told the Apostle Paul "On this rock I'll build my Church" and what "all Israel will be saved" means)....and yet the ways that Israel and the Church act operate before the Lord are like two differing brides before Him with their own type of relationship. Dr.Michael Brown spoke on the subject at length, as seen here...and here. Additionally, Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum (another Messianic Jewish/Hebrew Christian) of Ariel Ministries shared more on the issue as well....as seen here. As he shared when stating the 6 reasons why the Church and Israel are distinct:
1) "The first evidence is the fact that the church was born at Pentecost, whereas Israel had existed for many centuries" (116). This is supported by "the use of the future tense in Matthew 16:18 shows that it did not exist in gospel history" (116). Since the church born at Pentecost is called the "Body of Christ" (Col. 1:18), and entrance into the body is through "Spirit baptism" (1 Cor. 12:13), in which Jew and Gentile are united through the church. It is evident that the church began on the Day of Pentecost since Acts 1:5 views Spirit baptism as future, while Acts 10 links it to the past, specifically to Pentecost.
2) "The second evidence is that certain events in the ministry of the Messiah were essential to the establishment of the church-the church does not come into being until certain events have taken place" (117). These events include the resurrection and ascension of Jesus to become head of the church (Eph. 1:20-23). "The church, with believers as the body and Christ as the head, did not exist until after Christ ascended to become its head. And it could not become a functioning entity until after the Holy Spirit provided the necessary spiritual gifts (Eph. 4:7-11)" (117).
3) "The third evidence is the mystery character of the church (117)." A mystery in the Bible is a hidden truth not revealed until the New Testament (Eph. 3:3-5, 9; Col. 1:26-27). Fruchtenbaum lists "four defining characteristics of the church [that] are described as a mystery. (1) The body concept of Jewish and Gentile believers united into one body is designated as a mystery in Ephesians 3:1-12. (2) The doctrine of Christ indwelling every believer, the Christ-in-you concept, is called a mystery in Colossians 1:24-27 (cf. Col. 2:10-19; 3:4). (3) The church as the Bride of Christ is called a mystery in Ephesians 5:22-32. (4) The Rapture is called a mystery in 1 Corinthians 15:50-58. These four mysteries describe qualities that distinguish the church from Israel" (117-18).
4) "The fourth evidence that the church is distinct from Israel is the unique relationship between Jews and the Gentiles, called one new man in Ephesians 2:15" (118). During the current church age God is saving a remnant from the two previous entities (Israel and Gentiles) and combining them into a third new object-the church. This unity of Jews and Gentiles into one new man covers only the church age, from Pentecost until the rapture, after which time God will restore Israel and complete her destiny (Acts 15:14-18). 1 Corinthians 10:32 reflects just such a division when it says, "Give no offense either to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God."
5) "The fifth evidence for the distinction between Israel and the church is found in Galatians 6:16" (118). "It appears logical to view 'the Israel of God' (Gal. 6:16) as believing Jews in contrast to unbelieving Jews called 'Israel after the flesh' (1 Cor. 10:18)" (124).2 This passage does not support the false claim of replacement theologians who claim that Israel is supplanted by the Church. Instead, the Bible teaches that a remnant of Israel is combined with elect Gentiles during this age to make up a whole new entity the New Testament calls the church (Eph. 2).
Replacement theology tries to teach that because Gentiles believers are described as the "seed of Abraham" (Gal. 3:29) that this is equivalent to saying that they are Israel. This is clearly not the case. Paul's description of Gentile believers in Galatians 3:29 simply means that they participate in the spiritual (i.e., salvation) blessings that come through Israel (Rom. 15:27; 1 Cor. 9:11, 14). "Those who are the spiritual seed are partakers of Jewish spiritual blessings but are never said to become partakers of the physical, material, or national promises" (126). Therefore, Israel's national promises are left in tact awaiting a yet future fulfillment.
6) "In the book of Acts, both Israel and the church exist simultaneously. The term Israel is used twenty times and ekklesia (church) nineteen times, yet the two groups are always kept distinct" (118). Thus, the replacement theologian has no actual biblical basis upon which he bases his theological claim that Israel and the church have become one.
2) "The second evidence is that certain events in the ministry of the Messiah were essential to the establishment of the church-the church does not come into being until certain events have taken place" (117). These events include the resurrection and ascension of Jesus to become head of the church (Eph. 1:20-23). "The church, with believers as the body and Christ as the head, did not exist until after Christ ascended to become its head. And it could not become a functioning entity until after the Holy Spirit provided the necessary spiritual gifts (Eph. 4:7-11)" (117).
3) "The third evidence is the mystery character of the church (117)." A mystery in the Bible is a hidden truth not revealed until the New Testament (Eph. 3:3-5, 9; Col. 1:26-27). Fruchtenbaum lists "four defining characteristics of the church [that] are described as a mystery. (1) The body concept of Jewish and Gentile believers united into one body is designated as a mystery in Ephesians 3:1-12. (2) The doctrine of Christ indwelling every believer, the Christ-in-you concept, is called a mystery in Colossians 1:24-27 (cf. Col. 2:10-19; 3:4). (3) The church as the Bride of Christ is called a mystery in Ephesians 5:22-32. (4) The Rapture is called a mystery in 1 Corinthians 15:50-58. These four mysteries describe qualities that distinguish the church from Israel" (117-18).
4) "The fourth evidence that the church is distinct from Israel is the unique relationship between Jews and the Gentiles, called one new man in Ephesians 2:15" (118). During the current church age God is saving a remnant from the two previous entities (Israel and Gentiles) and combining them into a third new object-the church. This unity of Jews and Gentiles into one new man covers only the church age, from Pentecost until the rapture, after which time God will restore Israel and complete her destiny (Acts 15:14-18). 1 Corinthians 10:32 reflects just such a division when it says, "Give no offense either to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God."
5) "The fifth evidence for the distinction between Israel and the church is found in Galatians 6:16" (118). "It appears logical to view 'the Israel of God' (Gal. 6:16) as believing Jews in contrast to unbelieving Jews called 'Israel after the flesh' (1 Cor. 10:18)" (124).2 This passage does not support the false claim of replacement theologians who claim that Israel is supplanted by the Church. Instead, the Bible teaches that a remnant of Israel is combined with elect Gentiles during this age to make up a whole new entity the New Testament calls the church (Eph. 2).
Replacement theology tries to teach that because Gentiles believers are described as the "seed of Abraham" (Gal. 3:29) that this is equivalent to saying that they are Israel. This is clearly not the case. Paul's description of Gentile believers in Galatians 3:29 simply means that they participate in the spiritual (i.e., salvation) blessings that come through Israel (Rom. 15:27; 1 Cor. 9:11, 14). "Those who are the spiritual seed are partakers of Jewish spiritual blessings but are never said to become partakers of the physical, material, or national promises" (126). Therefore, Israel's national promises are left in tact awaiting a yet future fulfillment.
6) "In the book of Acts, both Israel and the church exist simultaneously. The term Israel is used twenty times and ekklesia (church) nineteen times, yet the two groups are always kept distinct" (118). Thus, the replacement theologian has no actual biblical basis upon which he bases his theological claim that Israel and the church have become one.
That said, again, if one wanted to make a case that the Lord lived out the concept of what the patriarches experienced when it came to polygamy and multiple wives, one could again make an argument based on how the Church and Israel are distinct from one another and have differing relationships with each other...even though both must look to the Messiah for redeemption
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sevengreenbeans
Remember Yosef
I'm not trying to tell anyone who they are. I'm not claiming to be anybody I'm not, either.
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- Sep 13, 2011
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The word "Jew" is not in scripture except in English past the 1600s. The term used is Yehudim, from Yehuda, which is either a person from the southern kingdom or the tribe. The northern kingdom may be missing, but it is still the northern kingdom, Israel or Ephraim.
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