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Icons...

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by simonthezealot, Oct 18, 2011.

  1. simonthezealot

    simonthezealot have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

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    Right on! any attempt to symbolize the supremacy of Christ as laid out for example in Colossians 1 is FUTILE.
     
  2. Kristos

    Kristos Servant

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    Wood and paint are certainly not necessary to create God in one's own image - liberal theologians seem to manage just fine without it:)

    The point being missed here is that God DID reveal His image to us through the Incarnation - this is not creating God in our own image, this is a declaration of the Incarnation of God Himself. Can this be abused just like Scripture - absolutely, without a doubt, it can and is, but that doesn't mean it must. Just like Scripture, the foundation must be sound in order for the walls to stand.
     
  3. Kristos

    Kristos Servant

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    My comments were only related to the specific quotation. If I had time to read all these books I guess I would have to change my occupation:)
     
  4. JesusFreak78

    JesusFreak78 Reformed Baptist

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    I agree with you, you don't need wood and paint to create God in one's own image and there is people who abuse the bible and I condemn it all.

    People create God in their own image because they are more interested in continue in their sin than to submit to the one true Holy and perfect God. In some cases people are just ignorant/just doesn't know any better.

    Now we need to get back on topic.
     
  5. Cappadocious

    Cappadocious Well-Known Member

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    If the incarnate God cannot be represented, then there was no true incarnation, but a creation of some sort of un-depictable demigod flesh.
     
  6. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    well if EYE-connz are bad . then the internet is bad too . why are we talking here? it's an image ingraved into the computer screen! aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! :D
     
  7. JesusFreak78

    JesusFreak78 Reformed Baptist

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    I know this post isn't for me, but I would like to answer this.

    Only God can represent God and that's why Jesus walking on earth is a true representation of God. All man made images of God can not represent God because we don't fully understand or comprehend God's Majesty, Glory, Holiness and Perfection.
     
  8. simonthezealot

    simonthezealot have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

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    Hebrew 1
    The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact expression of His nature...

    John 1
    No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

    And you feel man can rightly do this?
     
  9. Kristos

    Kristos Servant

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    Once again - your argument pertains not just to images but to everything man-made - words, sentences, conceptions, descriptions etc. Yes, God is ineffable - the eastern Christianity is acutely aware of this and in practice tends towards apophatic theology, but in cases where God has specifically revealed Himself, this can and even must be affirmed, thus the gospel was spoken and eventually written in human words and the image of Christ was painted as He was incarnate in the flesh.
     
  10. JesusFreak78

    JesusFreak78 Reformed Baptist

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    This thread is about icons, so lets stick to that.
    Also, what is written about God in the bible is from God, not man, which will take us back to God is the only one fit to tell us Who God is and what He is and about His attributes.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2013
  11. Kristos

    Kristos Servant

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    What is painted in an Icon is from God as well - why do you make a distinction? Are the ears more reliable than the eyes? I'm not changing the subject - the Incarnation was not literary - it was real, and this is what is presented in an icon of Christ just as it is heard with words in the gospel - no difference - the source is the same.
     
  12. JesusFreak78

    JesusFreak78 Reformed Baptist

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    I disagree with you the source is the same, but since you make the claim, I would like you present proof from the bible saying icons are from God.
     
  13. MarkRohfrietsch

    MarkRohfrietsch Unapologetic Apologist Supporter

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    I agree, as one learns about the symbolism in traditional icons, you can read them. Creativity and the arts are gifts from God. To have the God-given inspiration and ability to take the Word of God and translate it into a visual representation that inspires others is a blessing indeed.

    I'm Lutheran, and like our Orthodox and Catholic brothers and sisters, icons and statues are not uncommon in our Churches. The temple in Jerusalem was adorned with images, the Ark of the Covenant had golden angels as commanded by God, there was the bronze serpent, also commanded by God.

    Then there was also the Golden Calf; God seems to only have issues with objects which direct people away from Him, yet commanded images which point to Him and His glory.

    Such images are like photographs. If we take a photo of a beautiful sunset, over a lake, on our vacation; then look at it later, it reminds us of the good time we had. If we have a picture of our loved ones on our desk; we don't love the picture, but we are reminded of those in the picture whom we do love.

    Christian art, sculpture and icons do just that; they point to God.

    Below are a couple of examples of what you may find in older, more traditional Lutheran Churches. In the first, there is a statue of Christ, a crucifix and an icon of the last supper on the Altar. On either side in stained glass is an icon of the resurrection and the Good Shepherd.

    In the second photo there is an Icon of our Suffering Lord which reminds us of His Passion. A crucifix, and statues of Sts. Peter and Paul; two heroes of the New Testament, who brought many to the faith, and who's example is set before us and the Church, that we might do the same!
    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  14. Kristos

    Kristos Servant

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    You disagree that the source of an Icon of Christ is the Incarnation? So you want proof that Jesus Christ was God? Sorry, but I'm not following your logic here so it's difficult to respond in any meaningful way.
     
  15. Cappadocious

    Cappadocious Well-Known Member

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    Do you think that if you took a photograph of Christ back in the day, it wouldn't have developed or something?

    Christ became truly 100% human, exactly as you or I, except without sin. And part of condescending to be human means that he became a particular man in a particular place with a particular history and nationality and language, and family, etc. And in him, the un-locatable God becomes located.

    If Christ really became human, then you can depict him. If he cannot be depicted, then something about him shining forth in his humanity isn't real, it's a fraud. It means that when you see Christ, you aren't seeing God as man, but God as part of man, where God fills in the blanks where man is missing.

    The whole notion that God cannot condescend to become human, to become depictable, because of his transcendent radiance, is Islamizing and anti-Christian.
     
  16. simonthezealot

    simonthezealot have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

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    Any attempt can not fulfill the exact expression of His nature, Christ was 100% man but as well in the hypostatic union 100% God...
    This is what human hands will never express, furthermore a prime example of God's disgust in this is how angry He became when the Israelites made Him out to be a golden calf.
     
  17. Tzaousios

    Tzaousios Αυγουστινιανικός Χριστιανός

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    Please don't tell me that you are trying again to draw a connection between icons and the Gold Calf... :doh:
     
  18. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) CF Ambassadors Supporter

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    :clap:


    Excellent :)
     
  19. MarkRohfrietsch

    MarkRohfrietsch Unapologetic Apologist Supporter

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    Thanks, and I love the Icons in your signature!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  20. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) CF Ambassadors Supporter

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    Some of what you were noting was discussed elsewhere in other threads dedicated to discussing the Biblical merit behind icons, as seen here:













     
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