Icons...

[Cappadocious]

Any attempt can not fulfill the exact expression of His nature

Icons do not attempt to depict the Divine nature.

Christ was 100% man but as well in the hypostatic union 100% God...
This is what human hands will never express

If part of Christ's humanity was replaced by, or con-fused with, the Divine Nature, then he was not incarnate. If, on the other hand, Christ was fully human, then you can depict him by depicting his human body, human face, etc.

The Hypostastic Union does not mean that Christ's humanity became merged with his divinity, or that his divinity took the place of his humanity in any way.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I'm Lutheran, and like our Orthodox and Catholic brothers and sisters, icons and statues are not uncommon in our Churches. The temple in Jerusalem was adorned with images, the Ark of the Covenant had golden angels as commanded by God, there was the bronze serpent, also commanded by God.

As I shared elsewhere once, icons used to trip me out until actually talking with others in the OO (Oriental Orthodox) and EO (Eastern Orthodox) church---as well as others who used to be involved with them. And it was rather fascianting to see how the icons truly served to remind others of those before them... a great cloud of witnesses (Hebrews 11) that surrounds/reminds us of those who've gone before us.....and that's something that, IMHO, should never be dismissed when considering how reminders from those before us help us glorify Christ.


At no point has it ever been an issue of bowing down in worship to anything apart from the Lord...and for some good places to investigate, one can go here to the following:

• No Graven Image by Fr. Jack Sparks
• No Graven Image
• The Theology of Icons (mp3 lecture)

...To use a very contemporary parallel to this, praying before an icon is akin to using the other icons in our culture..those on a computer desktop. To use those icons, you click it and the program opens. The little icon is not the program, but rather it is the link that is the access to that computer program--and likewise, the icon is a simple link. By prayerfully viewing one, it is the goal that one becomes involved in what is depicted....

The Lord has often used Images to remind others of something of Himself---and thus, to say it was not always approrpiate is something I'm not certain that can be done. I'm always reminded of the staff was one made by Moses in Numbers 21:8-10 / Numbers 21 ....and interestingly enough, the staff had become something that was needing to be destroyed by the time of Hezekiah since people in his day began to worship it, as seen in 2 Kings 18:3-5 / 2 Kings 18 , yet the Lord references Himself in it in John 3 when discussing all looking unto Him, as they were commanded to do with the bronze serpent, were to be saved.

John 3:14
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,
John 3:13-15 / John 3
​

Iconographer David Mastroberte is the one who explains the theology of icons in this lecture (i..e "The Theology of Icons" ) given February 8, 2010 at Christ the Savior Orthodox Church in Johnstown, Pennsylvania. The lecture is in mp3format and lasts about 50 minutes. What others often forget is that Icons by themselves are apart of the way Orthodox people worship since they're mindset is that worship is about all 5 senses being used--sight being one of them. As said best in the article entitled The Five Senses in Worship (for brief excerpt):

Sight

“The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness.” – Matthew 6:22
​

Like much of what Christ said, this statement has a deeper meaning than just the topic of eyesight. “Light” and “darkness” can really refer to “goodness” and “badness.” In other words: don’t sin with your eyes. Well, in church, our eyes are bombarded with stimuli: vestments, decorative furnishings, but especially icons. Icons are not just pretty pictures – they call to mind the individuals or events that they represent and remind us that these people are worshipping with us, and ultimately direct our thoughts to God.

The entire Liturgy itself is a symbolic representation of the life of Christ.


​

Sadly, alot can happen when others can misunderstand what's said and diminish or desecrate what's given to them. I'm very glad for others such as Fr. Jack N. Sparks PhD who did excellent work trying to discuss the issue for Protestants who'd make arguments on the issue without fully understanding the concepts behind terminology used within Orthodoxy--as seen here--and I'm also glad that there are others coming from Evangelicalism that can really aid in bridging the gap for others. Fo rmany are often prone to making mistakes due to issues of translation when it comes to Orthodox Phenomenology

• Calvin vs. the Icon - Liturgica
• THE SACRED IN ART AND ARCHITECTURE: - Aidan Hart Icons
• Aidan Hart on Diversity Within Iconography - An Artistic Pentecost
• Protestant and Orthodox Icons and Idols: A Reflection » The ConneXion ...
• MONKS AND MERMAIDS ( A Benedictine Blog ): THE IMPORTANCE OF ICONS

 

[Gxg (G²)]

God seems to only have issues with objects which direct people away from Him, yet commanded images which point to Him and His glory.

Such images are like photographs. If we take a photo of a beautiful sunset, over a lake, on our vacation; then look at it later, it reminds us of the good time we had. If we have a picture of our loved ones on our desk; we don't love the picture, but we are reminded of those in the picture whom we do love.

Christian art, sculpture and icons do just that; they point to God.

Below are a couple of examples of what you may find in older, more traditional Lutheran Churches. In the first, there is a statue of Christ, a crucifix and an icon of the last supper on the Altar. On either side in stained glass is an icon of the resurrection and the Good Shepherd.

In the second photo there is an Icon of our Suffering Lord which reminds us of His Passion. A crucifix, and statues of Sts. Peter and Paul; two heroes of the New Testament, who brought many to the faith, and who's example is set before us and the Church, that we might do the same!

If I may share,

Here are some photos of one Ethiopian Orthodox sanctuary that I went to recently that was amazing (more shared here ) - beautiful how the pictures help you to remember the Lord and scriptural concepts:

• And for the actual sanctuary:

 

[Gxg (G²)]

If we take a photo of a beautiful sunset, over a lake, on our vacation; then look at it later, it reminds us of the good time we had. If we have a picture of our loved ones on our desk; we don't love the picture, but we are reminded of those in the picture whom we do love.

Christian art, sculpture and icons do just that; they point to God.

Sadly, when icons are not taken seriously, they can end up pointing away from God.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Thanks, and I love the Icons in your signature!

No problem - and glad to know the icons bless you It's always a blessing when others aware of what they are can appreciate them for what they are ..and what they symbolize (as they both come from Ethiopian Orthodoxy and Jewish culture).

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

If I may share,

Here are some photos of one Ethiopian Orthodox sanctuary that I went to recently that was amazing (more shared here ) - beautiful how the pictures help you to remember the Lord and scriptural concepts:

• And for the actual sanctuary:

Contrast that with this:

This is a main-line reformed protestant Church. If one's mind and eyes wanders in a Church with Icons, Statues, vestments, symbols etc, one can not help but see something that points them back to the reason that they are there. In Churches like this one (which at least has a cross which is an Icon in and of itself btw), one sees nice woodwork, and one can even look outside to see if it's golfing weather.

Like most reformed protestant Churches they have the organ dead centre, at the front of the Church; (Catholic and Lutheran Churches generally have them in a loft with the choir) it's like they are saying "my organ is bigger than yours" (pun intended).

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Contrast that with this:

This is a main-line reformed protestant Church. If one's mind and eyes wanders in a Church with Icons, Statues, vestments, symbols etc, one can not help but see something that points them back to the reason that they are there. In Churches like this one (which at least has a cross which is an Icon in and of itself btw), one sees nice woodwork, and one can even look outside to see if it's golfing weather.



Like most reformed protestant Churches they have the organ dead centre, at the front of the Church; (Catholic and Lutheran Churches generally have them in a loft with the choir) it's like they are saying "my organ is bigger than yours" (pun intended).

There are a lot of differences between the ways churches are set up - and many times, to be fair, I've been involved in some of those main-line Reformed Protestant Churches and learned much (as I have friends/family in them due to going to a predominately Reformed Christian High school and often hearing others note the intensity/beauty of hymnals in focusing their minds on the nature of God - and helping them to be sharp/think on His Character when it comes to not saying flippant words) - and I've been in other places where the service walls were very plain....yet the Lord moved powerfully in the service through the Gifts of the Spirit in operation.

Nonetheless, I must say that there's something distinct with how the East does things for a full-body experience. And amazingly, when I look at churches that were persecuted, it seems that they had the same desires even with few resources.

I am reminded of the Cave CHurch of Hagia Sophia which was very astounding.

It's like one can still feel the memory of what it was like for believers when they were pushed out of their homes/buildings for following Christ...and turned places that seemed barren into areas full of life because of the LIFE (Christ) inside of them, just as the OT Saints did (like David who made the Cave of Addulum his rallying point for building his mighty army when persecuted in 1 Samuel 22:1-3..or like Obadiah, who worked in King Ahab's palace and used caves to hide holy men set apart for the Lord even though they didn't have access to the Temple in 1 Kings 18:12-14

For more, one can go here or here:

• MYSTAGOGY: The Cave Church of Hagia Sophia in Kythira

Psalm 84[

Blessed are those whose strength(H) is in you,
whose hearts are set on pilgrimage.(I)
6 As they pass through the Valley of Baka,
they make it a place of springs;(J)
the autumn(K) rains also cover it with pools.[d]
7 They go from strength to strength,(L)
till each appears(M) before God in Zion.

Hebrews 10:30

32 Remember those earlier days after you had received the light, when you endured in a great conflict full of suffering.(BJ) 33 Sometimes you were publicly exposed to insult and persecution;(BK) at other times you stood side by side with those who were so treated.(BL) 34 You suffered along with those in prison and joyfully accepted the confiscation of your property, because you knew that you yourselves had better and lasting possessions. 35 So do not throw away your confidence;(BO) it will be richly rewarded.

Hebrews 11:30-39
There were others who were tortured, refusing to be released so that they might gain an even better resurrection. 36 Some faced jeers and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. 37 They were put to death by stoning; they were sawed in two; they were killed by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated— 38 the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, living in caves and in holes in the ground.

If believers met in caves during eras of persecution and thrived by turning those places into Holy Places FULL of imagery, than that makes me wonder why it seems it is looked down on today.

Even outside of that, historically, we have to deal with the fact that, Sacred Art is truly one of the most amazing ways that the Lord is glorified and it's always powerful seeing the many ways the Lord has worked through it over the centuries. Ethiopian culture is truly beautiful, especially as it concerns their artwork. I enjoy them due to how ancient they are in their connections, be it those with Ethiopian Orthodoxy or those who are Ethiopian Jewish (which Ethiopian Orthodoxy is essentially based on...and interestingly enough, many scholars/archeologists have noted that the Ark of the Covenant is most likely in Ethiopia for a host of reasons).

As it concerns pictures/art from a historical perspective, I've been amazed seeing the ways Samaritan art has been done over the years--especially as it concerns a temple dynamic/perspective. Something which may interest you:

• Samaritan Synagogue Uncovered near Bet She'an
• Ancient Samaritan Synagogue Unearthed In Israel : Discovery News
• Archaeologists in Israel Find a 1,500 Year Old Samaritan ... - Art Daily

​

​

​

The differing types of Mosaics and artwork from differing Samaritan synagouges set up in the Holy Land are truly stunning....and if they took it seriously, why should we do less today?

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Contrast that with this:

This is a main-line reformed protestant Church. If one's mind and eyes wanders in a Church with Icons, Statues, vestments, symbols etc, one can not help but see something that points them back to the reason that they are there. In Churches like this one (which at least has a cross which is an Icon in and of itself btw), one sees nice woodwork, and one can even look outside to see if it's golfing weather.

There are other types of sanctuary environments where the people were focused in service/WORSHIP since they were there to seek the Lord - and saw the sanctuary as where the Presence of the Lord. I automatically think back to the days being a part of store front churches without much and yet the Lord did amazing things - and I also think of other churches where the worship was vibrant...and even though icons would've been amazing, it was not something that kept people from having changed lives:

​

And of course, there are the churches with Stained Glass windows and imagery close to what occurs with icons (and as it is, Older Protestant churches seem to be more likely to have stained glass windows that depict Bible stories. ):​

​

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Certainly, one does not need icons to worship God, but they do enhance and focus that worship.

All too often in reformed protestant Churches, the emphasis seems to be one of a theology of personal glory, rather than a theology of the Cross: "I" accepted Christ; "I" was born again etc... Likewise, stages with bands and choirs make it more of a performance than a Church service, particularly in some of the charismatic Churches. At least with an Altar, one has a point of focus. I have frequently seen also in Non Denominational Churches/charismatic Baptist and Pentecostals in my town that they tend to be "personality cults"; when a preacher retires or leaves, there is also an ex-migration from that Church to one of the others that act similarly. When a bunch arrive at another Church, some of that Churches membership get's their noses out of joint and they move. Same thing happens when a new preacher arrives; a bunch of new members arrive too; a bunch of old ones leave.

I also have seen many situations where these Christians are less than humble because they can keep the legalism imposed by their Church better than other outside, and even others within their Congregation.

In my mind, these are forms of idolatry; "I must feel good"; "I must be entertained"; "I don't like what that Pastor is telling us"; "I could never listen to another Pastor"; I am most righteous.

I, I, I, I, I; me, me, me. It's about self, so the individual often becomes their own idol; and is more central than our Lord Jesus Christ!

 

[Kristos]

Any attempt can not fulfill the exact expression of His nature, Christ was 100% man but as well in the hypostatic union 100% God...
This is what human hands will never express, furthermore a prime example of God's disgust in this is how angry He became when the Israelites made Him out to be a golden calf.

I think that our apophatic theology would not only affirm this but take it step further, saying that whatever the hands do was conceived in the mind and heart first, therefore in order to "know" God one must first empty oneself of all thought and notion, allowing God to be revealed. As soon as you even think of God catophatically, you make Him in your own image because no human thought can ascend to the Holy. He is beyond all reason, language and art. Can we even say that God is love? Yes this is scriptural, but what does it mean? What is love? As soon as we say God is love we immediate assign our own human understand of love, but God is love perfectly and transcendently, something completely beyond anything we could possible conceive as love. Now I'm not saying that we can quote scripture and say "God is love", but when we do we must understand the context. The same goes for an icon of Christ - same logic. In the Incarnation God became Man - a mystery beyond any human understanding, but it is true and it is affirmed in the same mystical way as saying God is Love in the Icon.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Certainly, one does not need icons to worship God, but they do enhance and focus that worship.

Oh Yes, indeed, sir

You can live without a lot of things - but it's no different than lacking tools which could've made things MUCH more enjoyable, effective and engaging

All too often in reformed protestant Churches, the emphasis seems to be one of a theology of personal glory, rather than a theology of the Cross: "I" accepted Christ; "I" was born again etc..

We kind of have the same thing in many other churches when it comes to worship songs in general:


I'm reminded of the song "I am a friend of God!!!" ( nice song....but seriously, after awhile, you feel like saying "WHO CARES??!!!" )

And many other songs seem to have the same impact - especially in many black churches (like songs saying "In the morning, when I rise...I'm soldier on the battlefield"), where the songs were more so based in declarations on what someone was going to do - but not really based on studying who the Lord was.

But there is a place for noting - like often done in the Psalms - where one notes where they are thankful for what the Lord has done for them - noting where they were previously and how they came OUT of it by God's grace...( Psalm 136:23-25, Psalm 71:22-24 , Psalm 55:17-19 Psalm 35:16-18 Psalm 18:2-4 Psalm 13:4-6/Psalm 13 ) they were lost and how the Lord found them.

Psalm 116:6
The Lord preserves the simple; I was brought low, and He saved me.
Psalm 116:5-7/ Psalm 116
​

It's why songs like "Amazing Grace" are still so powerful..

Amazing Grace History/"Amazing Grace" By Wintley Phipps ​

Likewise, stages with bands and choirs make it more of a performance than a Church service, particularly in some of the charismatic Churches.

True - and having worked in a Charismatic Church and been in several others, I've seen this often where it feels things are more so based on performance to get the appearance of how things were the previous time where it seemed others encountered the Lord - and assuming that getting a response is an indicator of things going well.

At least with an Altar, one has a point of focus. I have frequently seen also in Non Denominational Churches/charismatic Baptist and Pentecostals in my town that they tend to be "personality cults"; when a preacher retires or leaves, there is also an ex-migration from that Church to one of the others that act similarly. When a bunch arrive at another Church, some of that Churches membership get's their noses out of joint and they move. Same thing happens when a new preacher arrives; a bunch of new members arrive too; a bunch of old ones leave.

I agree - and this seems to happen across Christendom whenever the focus becomes more so on the minister rather than the action occurring. And the same thing, amazingly, can also happen whenever others focus more so on the Sounds/presentation of what occurs with Liturgy rather than the Spirit of what you do.

Granted, I am all about having excellence in the Arts and in singing - but it tripped me out going into a Baptist Church for a choir rehearsal (high school days)/seeing signs on the back of the pews saying "Our desire is to honor the Lord with making a joyful sound - Psalm 100:1 and Psalm 98:6 - so if you cannot sing well, we'd appreciate it if you'd refrain from singing so as to not distract from the others in worship of Christ "....as if it was okay to discriminate against other believers/make MAN the focus when it came to singing that was supposedly done unto the Lord.

And yet the same things I know happen even in the Eastern world of Christianity when people literally have attitudes/bickering toward others who are off key - or looking down upon them because how they sung when a service went down didn't sound the best to them.

On the issue, I came across this back in April this year really enjoyed seeing the ways this sister broke down Liturgy - the ways it is often misunderstood and the ways that people not only forget the reasons behind why Liturgy is done - but the ways that many in Orthodoxy often miss the ability for adaptation because they don't know the roots of traditions. It's a very interesting commentary on the historical development of the Liturgy by Sister Vassa (Larin), given at St. Nicholas Orthodox Cathedral in Washington, DC. Very well done

• --"Sister Vassa (Larin) on Divine Liturgy and History" ( )
• --"Sr. Dr. Vassa Larin (Orthodox) - Ancient Faith Radio" ( )
• --Sister Vassa (Larin): Orthodoxy is Not A Religion of Fear ( )

I also have seen many situations where these Christians are less than humble because they can keep the legalism imposed by their Church better than other outside, and even others within their Congregation.

In my mind, these are forms of idolatry; "I must feel good"; "I must be entertained"; "I don't like what that Pastor is telling us"; "I could never listen to another Pastor"; I am most righteous.


I, I, I, I, I; me, me, me. It's about self, so the individual often becomes their own idol; and is more central than our Lord Jesus Christ!

Definitely understand - although it does take a variety of shapes...and I'd also argue that it can even go into the realm of idolatry whenever it seems that others without what we deem valuable are assumed to have the worst of motives or doing things from a self-focused basis rather than unto the Lord - for only He can see the hearts...

And there's only ONE Messiah...

 

[simonthezealot]

Icons do not attempt to depict the Divine nature.

Then you in no way are depicting the Christ.

 

[simonthezealot]

Please don't tell me that you are trying again to draw a connection between icons and the Gold Calf...

Sure thing...
they weren't trying to make their own god to worship but rather wanted to worship the God who led them out of Egypt through this image.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

God in our own image, this is a declaration of the Incarnation of God Himself. Can this be abused just like Scripture - absolutely, without a doubt, it can and is, but that doesn't mean it must. Just like Scripture, the foundation must be sound in order for the walls to stand.

So true - but truthfully, for many Protestants railing against any use of icons depicting Christ, I wonder how far are we willing to go.

For many say they're against icons - and yet they allow for presentations of the Lord to occur in smaller ways - and it makes you wonder on the issue of Bible stories made in movies/media--be it "The Passion" on the suffering of Christ or "The Nativity Story" in regards to the birth of Christ or other films dealing with Biblical history. Personally, although they can never have it fully accurate as to how things exactly were, I'm thankful for many of those films that have caused others to study on the life of the Messiah and seeing what the scriptures have to say.....and that is also said in light of the many children's church stories utilizing pictures to show the Messiah.

Love it when the saints do things such as sacred artwork in showing what the Scriptures beautifully demonstrate for the saints to see---regarding the many ways in which the Lord has shown Himself. It is indeed a blessing....and something I think is beneficial when it comes to aiding via illustration with the scriptures. Of course, it does not include much of the NT---though what it had to offer was indeed a gem...& of course, plenty of others out there on the issue that one could look into.

Same with other venues utilizing the medium of art when it comes to the Scriptures for portrayal. There's one film I know of which is a clay-animation film on the account of the Exodus---known as "The 10 Commandments":



The Ten Commandments

The stories of the Exodus's accounts are truly some of the most beautiful mentioned in the Scriptures...and seeing them on flim are always a blessing. The Burning Bush has always stood out to me. The film known as "The Prince Of Egypt" was one of my favorites when it came to bringing the Exodus Account to life...especially on that part, as seen in:​

"Prince Of Egypt" - The Burning Bush ​

But if all depictions of the Lord are sin, then how to go about it?

I've often had to do- a LOT of battle with people when they felt kids were promoted "idolatry" simply for imagining what Christ looked like if it wasn't exactly the way it was in history - ironically for saying that there was nothing wrong with depicting Christ in Afro-Centric terms like it is in many churches ( More was shared on that in #1, #39 and here ) - and I've often had ALOT of issue with when it comes to many being offended that Christ was not portrayed as a European-looking individual with blone hair and blue eyes and a Halo around his head when it comes to iconography or images of the Lord....much of it being cultural, due to what occured over the centuries when EuroCentric thought dominated everything and others were trained to think that all other ethnicities were inferior---especially those who happened to be of darker complexion. I crack up still whenever I come across others shocked to see that Jews have been of Ethopian background, Indian, Asian and many other cultures...for in their mind, "Jesus was White!!!!" based on what they saw in the media.

The same goes for depictions of Christ or others as being weak-or depictions being made where others act dogmatically about it when the truth is that no one was fully there in the times of the scriptures...and thus, no one will ever truly know.

Others may disagree, but I think people relate by using their senses and visual representations of Christ, etc. are just an effort to reach people, entirely innocuous. Like it or not, we ALL Have Mental images of Christ that comes to mind when thinking of Him, and those images were influenced by something we either saw in a painting at service, children’s church, or even a Christian movie……and that image, though perhaps close, may not be 100% accurate, but God still worked it for good….and that mental image was a part of connecting with the Lord as we sought to relate to Him, for using one’s imagination is a part of learning timeless truths, whether it be imagining the landscape of a biblical location when studying Biblical history, or imagining the look of the Burning Bush or Transfiguration of Christ bit by bit…..

Unless it hindered us in obeying Him or caused us to promote something like heresy, where’s the real issue?

Regardless of the color/shades, The Gospel Message’s still the same.

Being a Child worker, I see this all the time whenever the children do crafts. Some wish to color Jesus as white, others as brown, and some even green.

However, there’re no benefits in being vexed about it since the children are being taught EXTENSIVELY on whom Christ was (i.e. His Divinity, message, mission, etc), sin’s ugliness, n’ the need for His Redemption/Lordship for our lives. Additionally, it’s encouraging to witness their growth in Love for Him.

Moreover, they’ll eventually square with His LITERAL APPEARANCE in time---which was a Hebraic/Middle Eastern Jewish man (though appearances can be similar to some things...especially in light of the reality of Ethiopian Jews and other similar groups), so why become indignant on the issue?

How would it look if 5 yr old Chang depicted Jesus Yellow n’ with slanted eyes, despite Jesus not LITERALY appearing as such and despite how Johnny earnestly seeks God, and I stopped him in class claiming “BAD JOHNNY!!! THAT’S NOT CHRIST’S APPEARANCE….IDOLATRY!!!!”?

Why would I belittle the importance of thirsting to be more like Christ n’ place more emphasis on KNOWING HIS EXTERNAL attributes rather than the ESSENCE of who He WAS?

Regarding idolatry, I believe the command was more than making images of gods…. Specifically, it was the importance of not BOWING DOWN IN WORSHIP OF THEM (Exodus 20:4-5).

Images ALONE were not what constituted idolatry, but WORSHIP/Insistence of them as God.

In Israel’s time, worshiping various statues/carvings was very popular….Pagan nations attributed all kinds of miracles/powers to them….BUT JEHOVAH was to be Distinct, not simply seen as another idol/statue made by man…Thus, He forbade them from trying.

That said, it seems imagery of Christ would qualify as idolatry if one were to worship that image, as if the image BY ITSELF CONTAINTED Power (i.e. thinking a depiction one made is THE real depiction of the Lord and therefore should be REVERED).

Moreover, the “Idol” part would seem to be the insistence of Him ONLY being of one race, refusing to ever research/acknowledge His actual ethnicity.

Considering differing depictions of Christ ALONE as idolatry seems EXTREME, as it implies all art forms (ex. the timeless illustrations of Christ from the Renaissance, to crafts/artworks of Him at Christian Bookstores, and movie portrayals like “The Passion”) are condemned,….

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I love the Icons in your signature!

I had considered using this one - as it's one of my favorites:

Bermuda's Ethiopian Orthodox Church Paintings



​

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Creativity and the arts are gifts from God. To have the God-given inspiration and ability to take the Word of God and translate it into a visual representation that inspires others is a blessing indeed.

Growing in doing Children's ministry and Youth Ministry, I was amazed seeing how much of a need was met via the arts. As I've shared before elsewhere, in Youth Ministry, I've often been very saddened for those individuals who often hear I Corinthians 12 or Romans 12 discussed with the gifts...and then hear sermons on how those gifts played out in Acts. For some (as it was for myself as well growing up), they may not have the gift of wisdom or prophecy---and they may love the arts, but they'll always feel that there's no place for them. My cousin and I loved doing artwork and he's actually an Art Major now---one who was amazingly gifted...and I'd often wonder if the NT would make room for that gift. Others would say "Well, its nice what others do in art--but its not really a gift of the Spirit or something he uses in Acts." That said, I was shocked when I was able to see this:

Then Moses said to the Israelites, “See, the Lord has called by name Bezalel son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah. He has filled him with the Spirit of God—with skill, with understanding, with knowledge, and with all kinds of work, to design artistic designs, to work in gold, in silver, and in bronze, and in cutting stones for their setting, and in cutting wood, to do work in every artistic craft (Exod 35:30-33).

​

Exodus 31:2-4 also discusses the same theme. And on the issue, It amazed me to see how the Lord already had the Spirit of God use others in the realm of art----and for those who are bent toward that direction, it is a big deal. The widsom of Bezaleel and Aholiab is skill in supervising and teaching others how to do things, as well as being able to do intricate, artistic things themselves. Another way of putting it would be "strength of capacity" or even "expansion of their minds." In addition, God gave them understanding, which means "discernment" In this context of building the Tabernacle, it would mean being able to arrange or connect all the different parts. God also increased their knowledge, which means "a particular acquaintance."

The very God who formed the world, who brought order out of chaos at creation, also filled men like Bezalel (not a New Testament Christian, but an Old Testament believer) to produce works of art...and for others who had that gifting, they don't have to feel as if the Lord cannot use that for His glory. It's why there is now an entire ministry developed called "Prophetic Art", as mentioned earlier, where others will draw during worship services and use their art to glorify the Messiah. ...and for those leaning toward visual presentations, it truly is a blessing.

 

[MoreCoffee]

A lovely Orthodox lady that I know gave to me a beautiful icon of the Theotokos.

It looked like the above.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

A lovely Orthodox lady that I know gave to me a beautiful icon of the Theotokos.

It looked like the above.

That's beautiful

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Growing in doing Children's ministry and Youth Ministry, I was amazed seeing how much of a need was met via the arts. As I've shared before elsewhere, in Youth Ministry, I've often been very saddened for those individuals who often hear I Corinthians 12 or Romans 12 discussed with the gifts...and then hear sermons on how those gifts played out in Acts. For some (as it was for myself as well growing up), they may not have the gift of wisdom or prophecy---and they may love the arts, but they'll always feel that there's no place for them. My cousin and I loved doing artwork and he's actually an Art Major now---one who was amazingly gifted...and I'd often wonder if the NT would make room for that gift. Others would say "Well, its nice what others do in art--but its not really a gift of the Spirit or something he uses in Acts." That said, I was shocked when I was able to see this:Exodus 31:2-4 also discusses the same theme. And on the issue, It amazed me to see how the Lord already had the Spirit of God use others in the realm of art----and for those who are bent toward that direction, it is a big deal. The widsom of Bezaleel and Aholiab is skill in supervising and teaching others how to do things, as well as being able to do intricate, artistic things themselves. Another way of putting it would be "strength of capacity" or even "expansion of their minds." In addition, God gave them understanding, which means "discernment" In this context of building the Tabernacle, it would mean being able to arrange or connect all the different parts. God also increased their knowledge, which means "a particular acquaintance."

The very God who formed the world, who brought order out of chaos at creation, also filled men like Bezalel (not a New Testament Christian, but an Old Testament believer) to produce works of art...and for others who had that gifting, they don't have to feel as if the Lord cannot use that for His glory. It's why there is now an entire ministry developed called "Prophetic Art", as mentioned earlier, where others will draw during worship services and use their art to glorify the Messiah. ...and for those leaning toward visual presentations, it truly is a blessing.

Gxg, you and I have been running into each other here at CF for some time now; and it seems we are always on the same page!

A lovely Orthodox lady that I know gave to me a beautiful icon of the Theotokos.

It looked like the above.

That's beautiful

It is a pure depiction of love and devotion; a mother and her child, a child and his mother, our Lord for mankind.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

It is a pure depiction of love and devotion; a mother and her child, a child and his mother, our Lord for mankind.

I agree.

On a side note, don't know if you ever came across this - but I saw this recently on FB earlier in the year- and it was simply beautiful. It's a Japanese Christian Orthodox Icon (in the Nihonga style of the late 19th-early 20th century) - and I figured I'd share it as I thought it'd bless you or someone else out there:​

And on the Japanese Madona​

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