I struggle with...

[AV1611VET]

I have a issue with religious pride that leads to a refusal to reform by some religious fanatics.

Just out of curiosity, what were these [elusive] Hebrew priests doing in Mesopotamia in the first place?

And if it's the Pharisees you're referring to, are you saying the Pharisees wrote the book of Genesis?

 

[Gene Parmesan]

I honestly don't know how to be any clearer maybe if you specify what you don't understand about a miracle not being outside the natural law but rather just a different use of it. I even gave an example to make it painfully clear so your gonna have to help me understand what you don't understand. Okay, let's use an absurd example. Let's take gravity...let's say that all we know about gravity is that it holds us to the ground. God in His wisdom knows that it also can be used to hold the planets in orbit. It doesn't make holding the planets in orbit "supernatural" or "miracle" or "defying the natural law" to use it that way, it just means we didn't know it could do that. I believe some of the things we term "miracles" are nothing more than God using the natural world in a way we didn't know it could be used and others are things that defy the natural law. We as human beings don't always know the difference and it really bothers me when people try to claim that everything we can't explain is some miracle. I do believe there are actual miracles but I don't believe everything that cannot be explained is a miracle.

Thank you. I suppose to me there is just natural law and not natural law. I don't know how one "uses" the natural law without manipulating it in some way, which would then be a miracle. But since I'm reading your post for comprehension I understand that you mean that some things are absolutely consistent with the natural law but we just don't understand it and, in our ignorance, call it a "miracle." I hope I didn't misrepresent you there.

 

[razzelflabben]

Thank you. I suppose to me there is just natural law and not natural law. I don't know how one "uses" the natural law without manipulating it in some way, which would then be a miracle. But since I'm reading your post for comprehension I understand that you mean that some things are absolutely consistent with the natural law but we just don't understand it and, in our ignorance, call it a "miracle." I hope I didn't misrepresent you there.

close enough I'll take it....

 

[Colter]

Just out of curiosity, what were these [elusive] Hebrew priests doing in Mesopotamia in the first place?

And if it's the Pharisees you're referring to, are you saying the Pharisees wrote the book of Genesis?

During the Babylonian captivity is when much of the Old Testament as we know it today, was finalized. Babylon and Mesopotamia are basically one and the same region where a substantial portion of Biblical history took place. The events written about in Genesis, at least the true parts, were widely known outside of Israelite culture. The Western Christian world has a very biased and uninformed view of world history because of the Jews customized "chosen people" version. The Jews coopted the history in the region and made it all about themselves. There is still a TAD bit of resentment towards the Jews in the Middle East for that reason.

Dating the Bible - Wikipedia

 

[Justatruthseeker]

...trying to understand the creationist mentality. I've been struggling with this for years. Is anyone prepared to give an honest, clear explanation as to why they believe in creationism?

Because evolution is clearly false. Now if you have a theory that actually matches observations without ignoring the scientific definitions I'd be glad to listen.

I still struggle with evolutionist's that can observe finches interbreeding right in front of their noses and look the other way when people call them separate species.....

 

[AV1611VET]

During the Babylonian captivity is when much of the Old Testament as we know it today, was finalized.

I thought you said the book of Genesis? now you're invoking 'much of the Old Testament'?

And are you implying there were no Hebrew priests prior to the Diaspora?

 

[Colter]

I thought you said the book of Genesis? now you're invoking 'much of the Old Testament'?

And are you implying there were no Hebrew priests prior to the Diaspora?

I was asked about Genesis and a literal creation account. There were priests of various kinds all down through the history of semetic people. I referred specifically to the group in charge during the Babylonion captivity when much of the early parts were done. The link I provided shows the current scholarship of who contributed to what parts and when based on analysis of the scripture. Dating the Bible - Wikipedia

 

[AV1611VET]

I was asked about Genesis and a literal creation account. There were priests of various kinds all down through the history of semetic people. I referred specifically to the group in charge during the Babylonion captivity when much of the early parts were done. The link I provided shows the current scholarship of who contributed to what parts and when based on analysis of the scripture.

Well for the record, where the King James Bible differs with them, they are wrong.

 

[Colter]

Well for the record, where the King James Bible differs with them, they are wrong.

The KJV is just copies of other copies of things that were factually inaccurate to begin with made into a fetish, a golden calf, a religious idol.

 

[AV1611VET]

The KJV is just copies of other copies of things that were factually inaccurate to begin with made into a fetish, a golden calf, a religious idol.

The where specifically is God's written revelation to mankind to be found?

 

[Colter]

The where specifically is God's written revelation to mankind to be found?

On our hearts.

The written word needs to be considered in light of what it is and is not. Its tempting to make the writings of holy men into something sacred and then divinely inspired. The consequence can be seen in the rejection of more advanced teachings such as in the prophets and even the Son of God.

“The authority of truth is the very spirit that indwells its living manifestations, and not the dead words of the less illuminated and supposedly inspired men of another generation" Jesus of the UB.

 

[AV1611VET]

On our hearts.

Then how did your [elusive] Hebrew priests in Mesopotamia get away with writing what they wrote?

And what happens to those who have an artificial heart?

And why were some people martyred for what they wrote?

 

[Colter]

Then how did your [elusive] Hebrew priests in Mesopotamia get away with writing what they wrote?

And what happens to those who have an artificial heart?

And why were some people martyred for what they wrote?

Why do you say elusive Hebrew priests in Babylon???? Did you think Judaism didn't have a preist class during the captivity???

*The Hebrew priest made NO CLAIM of writing by divine inspiration! They wrote in "preacher speak", like any preacher giving a sermon on Sunday where he says "God does this and that, and thinks this and that" in order to make a point, feed the flock, give them faith and hope. We don't appreciate the devastation to the Israelites of the Babylonian captivity. It could have all come to an inglorious end! Think of the ruling priest class as modern day politicians trying to decide what to do for the good of the terrified, alien ruled nation? What to say, how to respond in the light of shattered belief in a divinely appointed nation which now lay in ruins.

 

[joshua 1 9]

How many times do we have to go through this?

As many times as you want to go through the subject of the botany middle east. Ie the evolution & domestication of plants and animals in the middle east. What Breasted called the fertile crescent. I have studied the subject for over 50 years. My ancient history teacher in high school was from Germany and a survivor of the Holocaust. He lived to be 100. I am grateful that he started me on a study of History just like I am grateful that my Biology teacher a graduate of Harvard University got me started on the study of Science. I plan to continue to study science and I plan to continue to study history. I just do not get as interested in the study of fiction as some people do.

 

[joshua 1 9]

On our hearts.

The written word needs to be considered in light of what it is and is not. Its tempting to make the writings of holy men into something sacred and then divinely inspired. The consequence can be seen in the rejection of more advanced teachings such as in the prophets and even the Son of God.

“The authority of truth is the very spirit that indwells its living manifestations, and not the dead words of the less illuminated and supposedly inspired men of another generation" Jesus of the UB.

Jesus clearly tells us that the problem was the traditions of man made of word of God of no effect.

Mark 7 They worship Me in vain; they teach as doctrine the precepts of men.’ 8 You have disregarded the commandment of God to keep the tradition of men.” 9 He went on to say, “You neatly set aside the commandment of God to maintain your own tradition.…

 

[joshua 1 9]

Let's get this right, what you actually mean is that you rarely accept any evidence that contradicts your interpretation of the bible.

That is not true at all. I constantly change my interpretation of the Bible as I study science. In fact I started out a YEC & My acceptance of OEC was slow and gradual as I studied the evidence from many different sources.

 

[joshua 1 9]

They wrote in "preacher speak"

There is a clear distinction between what you call "preacher speak" and those who actually speak the Word of God". We need to be a fruit inspector to see if people live the life that God calls us to. Leviticus sets the standard for those who want to live their life as a Priest before God.

2Timothy2 "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth."

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Matthew 7:21

 

[joshua 1 9]

Is that good enough for you? If it were written in a book?

The Word of God is good because He watches over His Word to Perform and do what He says He will do. The Promises of God are conditional, we have to do our part of the covenant and then we can be sure that God will do do His part. My wife says: "Do your best and God will do the rest".

 

[Colter]

There is a clear distinction between what you call "preacher speak" and those who actually speak the Word of God". We need to be a fruit inspector to see if people live the life that God calls us to. Leviticus sets the standard for those who want to live their life as a Priest before God.

2Timothy2 "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth."

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Matthew 7:21

True that! Living a decided life dedicated to doing the will of God, that was the original gospel before the cross.

 

[AV1611VET]

Why do you say elusive Hebrew priests in Babylon???? Did you think Judaism didn't have a preist class during the captivity???

Did they minister in the Temple?

If so, how was the Temple transported there from Jerusalem?