I Need to Know I'm Not Alone...

[GandalfTheWise]

I just did something and I suddenly feel like I've betrayed my church The Savation Army as a whole and my girlfriend a fellow salvationist. I haven't had spiritual guidance in months. The people I trusted within TSA have not spoken with me since Labor Day weekend. I know I need spiritual guidance at my age, 20. I was praying all weekend and today I sent a message to an Orthodox Church semiclose. I'm a soldier I'm on a track to become a minister in the Salvation Army as is my girlfriend. Well a member of that church emailed me back in less than three hours...I was so happy I immediately accepted the book he offered for me for free. My girlfriend says she understands and she would come with me if I ever left TSA as long as I was following Him. But I still feel wrong for what I've done...

I've been a Christian for over 40 years now. For a long time, I was concerned with finding the "right" denomination to be part of. My standard was something like finding the one that had the "truest" doctrine and had people who were seriously living a Christian life, etc. I wanted to find the "purest" possible church.

I eventually realized God's people are spread out through many denominations. I also found that most denominations hold the same core beliefs but usually just differ on the "distinctives", that is the things they have a different opinion about than other denominations. This can range from practical opinions on what type of musical instruments are allowed, to what day is the "right" day to meet on, to more serious matters. Much of that amounts to be a preference for style of worship and emphasis of ministry. For some people, it is a blessing and important to be part of a long standing tradition. For others, it is a blessing and important to be part of the cutting edge of expressing the gospel in terms a current generation can understand. I respect both and see value in both.

If I could give a single piece of advice to a young Christian man at age 20, it is this. Your Christian walk with God is about becoming the unique person He has created you to be; it is not about finding what God's "todo list" is for your life. It is important that you are walking with God yourself on a consistent basis. Reading the Bible, prayer, meditation, spending time with other Christians, study, are all things that help us grow spiritually. In the long run, effective ministry and being fruitful will flow from who we are, not from learning how to do things more effectively and joining the right group and getting the right training. Gifts, talents, and training are tools. It is becoming who God intends for us to be that allows us to put those things in their proper context and use them effectively.

 

[Kajiki]

I wanna thank all that have responded. One of my issues stands solely with the singular church I go to the lack of spiritual guidance and you guys have done more than what they have.

I've been a Christian for over 40 years now. For a long time, I was concerned with finding the "right" denomination to be part of. My standard was something like finding the one that had the "truest" doctrine and had people who were seriously living a Christian life, etc. I wanted to find the "purest" possible church.

I eventually realized God's people are spread out through many denominations. I also found that most denominations hold the same core beliefs but usually just differ on the "distinctives", that is the things they have a different opinion about than other denominations. This can range from practical opinions on what type of musical instruments are allowed, to what day is the "right" day to meet on, to more serious matters. Much of that amounts to be a preference for style of worship and emphasis of ministry. For some people, it is a blessing and important to be part of a long standing tradition. For others, it is a blessing and important to be part of the cutting edge of expressing the gospel in terms a current generation can understand. I respect both and see value in both.

If I could give a single piece of advice to a young Christian man at age 20, it is this. Your Christian walk with God is about becoming the unique person He has created you to be; it is not about finding what God's "todo list" is for your life. It is important that you are walking with God yourself on a consistent basis. Reading the Bible, prayer, meditation, spending time with other Christians, study, are all things that help us grow spiritually. In the long run, effective ministry and being fruitful will flow from who we are, not from learning how to do things more effectively and joining the right group and getting the right training. Gifts, talents, and training are tools. It is becoming who God intends for us to be that allows us to put those things in their proper context and use them effectively.

My most important thing is always to help others. But my issue above and the lack of communion being practiced in most corps makes me wary. Thank you for the advice though I will keep it all in mind without looking for a "comfortable" church that just says stuff to feel good.

Thank you all and God Bless

 

[Rescued One]

Well, I hope you come back and read my post. Yes, a Christian should take communion and he should read his Bible every chance he has. The Bible is where we learn God's will.

2 Timothy 3
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Psalm 119
11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

God bless.

 

[Petros2015]

But my issue above and the lack of communion being practiced in most corps makes me wary.

The Salvation Army - Wikipedia

The Salvation Army's main converts were at first alcoholics, morphine addicts, prostitutes and other "undesirables" unwelcome in polite Christian society,

Sounds like my kinda people (I'm originally from AA background)

which helped prompt the Booths to start their own church.[9] The Booths did not include the use of sacraments (mainly baptism and Holy Communion) in the Army's form of worship, believing that many Christians had come to rely on the outward signs of spiritual grace rather than on grace itself.

That's interesting. I eventually went from the 'raw' spirituality of AA to the discipline of the Orthodox because I was led there and God knew that I needed it. The sacrament of communion isn't an outward sign, it is reaffirming my commitment and part of the regeneration process. I do believe it to be part of grace itself. That and the sacrament of confession keep me honest with myself and God. I recently fell away a bit and realized I could no longer take communion and it highlighted the conflict until it was resolved. A little bit like losing sobriety in AA, and then coming forward and taking a 24-hour chip. There is much to be said for the sacrament of baptism as well. I was baptized early but I think it did more for me than I will ever know. I've come to think of these things like spiritual 'seals' in some sense and be more grateful for them.

So Salvation Army seems largely to be sacrament-less. I can tell you that the sacraments are part of the means by which Christ is establishing the salvation of my soul and keeping me in line. I can't tell you what you need though, I can only tell you what God told me that I needed.

Wishing you a rich spiritual walk wherever God takes you

 

[Kajiki]

The Salvation Army - Wikipedia

The Salvation Army's main converts were at first alcoholics, morphine addicts, prostitutes and other "undesirables" unwelcome in polite Christian society,

Sounds like my kinda people (I'm originally from AA background)

which helped prompt the Booths to start their own church.[9] The Booths did not include the use of sacraments (mainly baptism and Holy Communion) in the Army's form of worship, believing that many Christians had come to rely on the outward signs of spiritual grace rather than on grace itself.

That's interesting. I eventually went from the 'raw' spirituality of AA to the discipline of the Orthodox because I was led there and God knew that I needed it. The sacrament of communion isn't an outward sign, it is reaffirming my commitment and part of the regeneration process. I do believe it to be part of grace itself. That and the sacrament of confession keep me honest with myself and God. I recently fell away a bit and realized I could no longer take communion and it highlighted the conflict until it was resolved. A little bit like losing sobriety in AA, and then coming forward and taking a 24-hour chip. There is much to be said for the sacrament of baptism as well. I was baptized early but I think it did more for me than I will ever know. I've come to think of these things like spiritual 'seals' in some sense and be more grateful for them.

So Salvation Army seems largely to be sacrament-less. I can tell you that the sacraments are part of the means by which Christ is establishing the salvation of my soul and keeping me in line. I can't tell you what you need though, I can only tell you what God told me that I needed.

Wishing you a rich spiritual walk wherever God takes you

Don't get me wrong it is a truly good organization. I just need to watch myself and not make it an idol as I kinda did. I need to focus on The Lord Almighty. The man whose parable (Prodigal Son) saved me when I was suicidal due to guilt of sin.

God Bless and thank you

 

[PeaceJoyLove]

Not technically. It's just you're expected to move towards commiting your life to Christ but with them.

Remember, "the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory." Hunger for more is part of the process taking place within...our faith urging onward...but also remember the promise: "However, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth. For He will not speak on His own, but He will speak what He hears, and He will declare to you what is to come."

Look to God, not man..."Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:"

Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.

 

[Petros2015]

Actually reading over the history again, they (at least originally) promoted complete abstinence from alcohol in their members, which was important since they started with many down and outs who were alcoholics. Hence, real wine at communion could be a real disaster for some of them and start a spiraling compromise. For me the communion wine has been the only I've had in over 4 years (the bread is soaked in it and given to us by the priest), and it has not left me with a craving, but I know some alcoholics would not feel safe even with that.

 

[Strong in Him]

I just did something and I suddenly feel like I've betrayed my church The Savation Army as a whole and my girlfriend a fellow salvationist. I haven't had spiritual guidance in months. The people I trusted within TSA have not spoken with me since Labor Day weekend. I know I need spiritual guidance at my age, 20. I was praying all weekend and today I sent a message to an Orthodox Church semiclose. I'm a soldier I'm on a track to become a minister in the Salvation Army as is my girlfriend. Well a member of that church emailed me back in less than three hours...I was so happy I immediately accepted the book he offered for me for free. My girlfriend says she understands and she would come with me if I ever left TSA as long as I was following Him. But I still feel wrong for what I've done...

There's nothing wrong with reading a book about another denomination; if it helps you to understand their p.o.v, there's everything right with it.
There's nothing wrong in asking another minister for help, guidance or prayer. Sometimes it helps to talk to someone outside of the situation, and I would hope that your officers would realise that. In fact, when I was a Methodist lay worker, the clergy in my circuit specifically chose an anglican curate to be my mentor.

If you do become a minister in the SA, you might well have to interact/socialise/pray with ministers of other denominations. In fact, I hope you would - we are all Christians and, imo, should all be working together anyway.

 

[Kajiki]

Actually reading over the history again, they (at least originally) promoted complete abstinence from alcohol in their members, which was important since they started with many down and outs who were alcoholics. Hence, real wine at communion could be a real disaster for some of them and start a spiraling compromise. For me the communion wine has been the only I've had in over 4 years (the bread is soaked in it and given to us by the priest), and it has not left me with a craving, but I know some alcoholics would not feel safe even with that.

Yes this is accurate even today. When I became a soldier I signed the Soldier's Covenant. Which includes abstinence.

 

[fat wee robin]

Thank you for the warm words. For a long time I was putting TSA first before God I fear. Now I'm seeing that.

I certainly understand I am young and thank you for the well placed advice. I do know however that even at my young age I need a spiritual guidance on Earth that I don't currently have.


I know it sounds silly but it truly is my life at this point. I'm in what they call 730 Club which means I'm accepting a call to ministry within TSA and messaging another church looking for guidance in the moment my mind said I was betraying...

What you have just written says that you need to
go forward ,not backward out of guilt or fear .
If you go back it might be very bad for you .

 

[Kajiki]

What you have just written says that you need to
go forward ,not backward out of guilt or fear .
If you go back it might be very bad for you .

But what way is backwards and which is forwards. Starting over with another denomination could be seen as going back but staying after all my prayer andlearning could too.

 

[PeaceJoyLove]

But what way is backwards and which is forwards. Starting over with another denomination could be seen as going back but staying after all my prayer andlearning could too.

Perhaps the question should be...where is your faith, in man/denomination or in the promises of God? God is everywhere, in everything...even if we cannot 'see' it, (yet)...

 

[Myychael]

What you have just written says that you need to
go forward ,not backward out of guilt or fear .
If you go back it might be very bad for you .

Thank you for the warm words. For a long time I was putting TSA first before God I fear. Now I'm seeing that.

I certainly understand I am young and thank you for the well placed advice. I do know however that even at my young age I need a spiritual guidance on Earth that I don't currently have.


I know it sounds silly but it truly is my life at this point. I'm in what they call 730 Club which means I'm accepting a call to ministry within TSA and messaging another church looking for guidance in the moment my mind said I was betraying...

Advice is free Drjean has a valid point I left a position in the Church I was serving in I was a Deacon
And Sunday School Teacher there I left because I was betrayed and I have some regrets because I have
To start over in another congregation maybe it’s not fear you feel but the pull To stay TSA serves the people others would discard I have a question for you do you love the people where you are serving
What I mean by this is when a TSA member is sick in the hospital do you go visit them do you worry about the youth in the congregation staying true to GODS word do you pray for each member before you pray for your own family do you worry if there is enough money coming in to do the TSA work for
The ministry work they do.If you would just try this pray to the Lord to send you someone to talk to
About the direction he has for you and wait and see what happens I have been my worst enemy by being to quick and not be patient Above what I wrote is how I feel about my past congregation
If you don’t be patient you can make Ames’s of things I really miss preaching I even dream of it
Again don’t be afraid whatever you choose to do don’t forget our Jesus trust in him he will light
Your path if I could only follow my own advice. GOD Bless you

 

[Kajiki]

The Army as a whole I love the work it does. My particular corps does very little for others anymore and its the only one I can get too. Luckilyy my girlfriend got her officer (different corps) to talk to me. He actually left catholocism and has an idea on communion.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I just did something and I suddenly feel like I've betrayed my church The Savation Army as a whole and my girlfriend a fellow salvationist. I haven't had spiritual guidance in months. The people I trusted within TSA have not spoken with me since Labor Day weekend. I know I need spiritual guidance at my age, 20. I was praying all weekend and today I sent a message to an Orthodox Church semiclose. I'm a soldier I'm on a track to become a minister in the Salvation Army as is my girlfriend. Well a member of that church emailed me back in less than three hours...I was so happy I immediately accepted the book he offered for me for free. My girlfriend says she understands and she would come with me if I ever left TSA as long as I was following Him. But I still feel wrong for what I've done...

The problems I see with the Salvation Army is that they deny partaking in the Lord's supper (Note: I am not talking about Catholic or Orthodox communion here; I am talking about a simple sharing of unleavened bread with grape juice with your fellow brother and sisters in remembrance of the Lord's sacrifice for us). Also, the use of soldier ranks is not something that is exactly commanded of us in Scripture, either. While holiness does play a part in our salvation after accepting Jesus as your Savior, if it is all work and no emphasis on God's grace and his salvation it misses the point of why we are here on this Earth. While it is good to help others, Jesus said the poor will always be among you. Christianity is about Jesus and loving and following Him. It is not about doing what some group says like the Salvation Army. They may be doing the Lord's work but have they lost their first love? Only God and you can answer that. Do you see the love of Jesus more in your life when you worship with them? Do they help you to study God's Word and encourage you to learn it by way of prayer and by comparing Scripture with Scripture? See, no church should tell you how to live for the Lord and make you feel trapped that you have to obey them. Only God's Word is our ultimate authority. We are not above God's Word; And some of the things in the Salvation Army kind of appears like they are going a little against the Word of God (Which is not good). The fact that you feel the need to look elsewhere should tell you that something does not add up exactly. Maybe the Salvation Army in another city and or country is doing it right. Who knows. But what is most important is that you get in God's Word and seek out the truth and see if all of what they are doing is actually biblical or not.

 

[Myychael]

The Army as a whole I love the work it does. My particular corps does very little for others anymore and its the only one I can get too. Luckilyy my girlfriend got her officer (different corps) to talk to me. He actually left catholocism and has an idea on communion.

When I disassociated myself wife and I from the Jehovah Witnesses .the both of us had never partook of our Lords Communion.I finally got the courage to visit a real congregation outside a Kingdomhall
Guess what was happening that day COMMUNION !!!!! But we never partook of it the Lord put this
In place for us because all his children are special and he loves us it finally hit me when I got back home I was sad at first then over whelmed in my Spirit mowing I was accepted in the beloved I try never to miss being with my brothers and sisters at Communion GOD has and is so Gracious to me
This always makes me tear eyed and that’s a good thing keep your eyes on Christ you have a good start young brother give him the glory and as always we’re blessed in the Lord

 

[GoingByzantine]

Do not be afraid to read works or reach out to others, Kajiki. If something does not feel right about your current church, then maybe the holy spirit is trying to guide you in a new direction. The only way to know for sure is to pray to God for guidance. As others said, you should take time to discern and explore your options.

 

[LoricaLady]

I'll do anything go anywhere that He calls me. but the Army is a great organization why would I feel this tug at my heart to leave almost everything I know...my family friends. I have always pushed the Army as an awesome organization...My mind is telling me to simply return the book if and when it arrives and forget this craziness...but my heart is MUCH more curious...

Abraham felt a a call to move far away from his home and leave everyone, except a cousin and his wife. Now, that doesn't mean you are called the same way. I would do a 24 hour water fast and pray for guidance. Only the Holy Spirit can tell you what is your right course as He knows the future.

 

[Kajiki]

Now that I am home from work I sit on my bed with my laptop and my Bible. Today I talked to that officer from my girlfriend’s church and he explained a lot and plans to help me more tomorrow. I do not agree entirely on certain things personally however. I feel he stretches something. I first asked about communion. He answered by saying that communion, according to the Army, is practiced everytime we sit down and break bread as a congregation in rememberance of Jesus. This is something some corps do regularly mine only on holidays and sometimes not even then…He then said that it and Baptism aren’t whats important because they do not save souls. And that only Believing in Jesus’ death and resurrection by faith does. And that that is all that matters saving souls. He also said it is more than okay to read other denominations works but to continue to do something I’ve done since I’ve sat in services. I listen of course to the preacher and then read above and below the verse or passage for some context. I do the same when verses are quoted in books. He, being a former Roman Catholic had a strong opinion on them I won’t get into here but when I asked him on his thoughts of Eastern Orthodoxy he said he had to go and was busy. I believe he probably was busy seeing as the life of an Officer is a busy one. He said to ask him more tomorrow and he is happy to answer.


Thank you everyone whom has invested time in this thread and God Bless you!

 

[~Anastasia~]

Just a bit of info if it matters to you. This is kind of an odd things, but ... Catholics tend to think they are exactly like Orthodox. Orthodox tend to see the differences between us and Catholicism. I'm still trying to figure out why this is, but in certain aspects we are all (Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant) like each other and different in different ways - since some of Protestantism came from Catholicism (because that was the Church they were trying to reform so they started with some basic beliefs) and because some of the reforms moved them actually closer to Orthodoxy. So it's complicated.

We may look the same visually to Protestants (I help in the Church when we have our Festival and greet thousands of guests). Protestants almost invariably will comment that it looks Catholic, while Catholics often comment how different from a Catholic Church it looks to them, lol.

But my point is that a disaffected Catholic Protestant may not actually understand Orthodoxy as much as he might think, if he's relying on his opinions of Catholicism, as he probably would be.




I am glad you were able to talk to someone and get some help. And glad they encourage you to learn on your own.


I never realized the Salvation Army did away with sacramentals altogether. All I will say is that if that concerns you, I can understand. We don't get to remake things as we see fit. And it is grieving from my own point of view, because these things are supposed to be vehicles for the grace of God.

Thankfully God is merciful. But I couldn't in conscience suggest it is ok to presume to do away with the Sacraments altogether when they were established by Christ Himself.