I need to either find a spouse or learn how to be at peace with being single, how do I do that?

prodromos · Jul 15, 2019

Coolbutclueless said:
Is there a specific prayer? I ask for her petitions most days but I don't actually have any specific prayers for her on the issue.

Search for Akathist St Xenia

Coolbutclueless · Jul 26, 2019

prodromos said:
Search for Akathist St Xenia

I'll look it up, though its not specifically asking for her intercessions in an akathist is it?

ArmyMatt · Jul 26, 2019

Coolbutclueless said:
I'll look it up, though its not specifically asking for her intercessions in an akathist is it?

often an Akathist has 2-3 longer prayers to the saint in the back just before the end.

Lukaris · Jul 26, 2019

I wish anyone who is young and single to find stability in a Christian marriage. If this is not possible then, I believe, just do the best you can in simple daily living ( Romans 13:8-10, Philippians 2:1-4 etc.).

I am hetero, always single, & in my 50s; it is not easy but I have been blessed to be able bodied & have no excuses.

GoingByzantine · Jul 26, 2019

Rouge Toy Story characters aside, has anyone noticed that these threads continue to pop up on the regular?

Though we aren't as gung-ho about ministries as some members of say the Protestant community are, we do have them. I've seen Orthodox groups for married couples, the elderly, people seeking vocations etc. but I have not seen any such groups for single Orthodox. Yet, it is pretty clear that this is a significant challenge facing our community, especially in the Western world. Prayer is good, and we should continue to pray for ourselves and for others, but God has gifted us with the ability to be pragmatic. When it is clear that there is a major problem facing our community, efforts need to be undertaken to help alleviate this problem.

Right now the only real singles ministry is "orthodox and single", which might be well intentioned, but has a very small user base and a very inbalanced gender ratio of users who are often half a continent apart.

The other advice that we hear is that we should go to conferences and meet people, but there comes a certain point where you are too old to go to most of these conferences which are aimed at undergraduate (18 to early 20s aged) people. Where do you go when you get too old for that?

Marriage was a much simpler concept throughout most of history. People lived in small villages, and marriages were generally brokered between families. Many of these marriages did not start out as romantic affairs, as most relationships in our modern world do. Whether we want to admit it or not, in Western society today most marriages begin in an amorous and often lustful context. To not engage in sinful and lustful pre-marital activities is in many ways frowned on, even by some Christians. For those of us who choose not to engage in these activities, our pool of potential partners is very slim. The bottom line is that we need support and help from the broader orthodox community, or for many of us the temptation to have a secular marriage might become too strong over time.

I would implore anyone on this forum who is in a position of church leadership to please begin seeking answers and solutions while all the people dealing with this problem continue to pray and work hard on being good Christians.

Anhelyna · Aug 4, 2019

unnecessary now - so comment deleted

FreeinChrist · Aug 4, 2019

MOD HAT

This thread had a clean up of problem posts and responses to those posts.

Please stay on topic.

bèlla · Aug 4, 2019

GoingByzantine said:
For those of us who choose not to engage in these activities, our pool of potential partners is very slim.

The Internet had a huge impact on the dating pool. Many people look online and for some that’s their only method. It’s easier to write a profile and let potential suitors come to you rather than giving others a chance if they don’t appeal.

The same criteria that warrants consideration in your youth applies when older. Give attention to your appearance and fitness. Develop your communication and conversational skills. Address bad habits and attitudes. Be willing to learn and try new things.

Everyone is taking a gamble. The more appealing the gamble is the greater your likelihood for success. This holds true whether you’re looking for a Christian or secular partner.

Newtheran · Aug 4, 2019

Coolbutclueless said:
I'm living in the middle of the US, to be honest I don't really have any desire to go overseas to try to find a spouse. I'm an American, i'm not some super patriot or anything but what I mean is this. I'm not greek, I'm not Russian , and I literally do not care at all about greek or russian culture it means nothing to me. I'm happy that many people enjoy it but personally its not something that I want to waste my time on. I have more than enough things taking up my time as it is. I don't speak those languages, I'm not of that culture, and while I'm not opposed to dating/marrying someone from that culture I can't just go to another country I care nothing about for the sole purpose of finding a wife. plus I'm a year out from graduating college, then I'll need to get a job and then It will be way more difficult if I go overseas.

I know you mean this as a joke, but the thought of doing that physical makes me ill.

I'm not sure if your school has one of these...

About OCF

Perhaps a nearby school has one? Perhaps you could get one started on your campus?

Actually, I don't think the advice was given to you as a joke...in fact, it's very sound advice. You could do a great deal worse in life than marrying a traditional Russian or Eastern European girl who is interested in being a homemaker and raising a family...that's going to take some flexibility on your part in terms of cultural adjustment.

Coolbutclueless · Aug 5, 2019

GoingByzantine said:
Rouge Toy Story characters aside, has anyone noticed that these threads continue to pop up on the regular?

Though we aren't as gung-ho about ministries as some members of say the Protestant community are, we do have them. I've seen Orthodox groups for married couples, the elderly, people seeking vocations etc. but I have not seen any such groups for single Orthodox. Yet, it is pretty clear that this is a significant challenge facing our community, especially in the Western world. Prayer is good, and we should continue to pray for ourselves and for others, but God has gifted us with the ability to be pragmatic. When it is clear that there is a major problem facing our community, efforts need to be undertaken to help alleviate this problem.

Right now the only real singles ministry is "orthodox and single", which might be well intentioned, but has a very small user base and a very inbalanced gender ratio of users who are often half a continent apart.

The other advice that we hear is that we should go to conferences and meet people, but there comes a certain point where you are too old to go to most of these conferences which are aimed at undergraduate (18 to early 20s aged) people. Where do you go when you get too old for that?

Marriage was a much simpler concept throughout most of history. People lived in small villages, and marriages were generally brokered between families. Many of these marriages did not start out as romantic affairs, as most relationships in our modern world do. Whether we want to admit it or not, in Western society today most marriages begin in an amorous and often lustful context. To not engage in sinful and lustful pre-marital activities is in many ways frowned on, even by some Christians. For those of us who choose not to engage in these activities, our pool of potential partners is very slim. The bottom line is that we need support and help from the broader orthodox community, or for many of us the temptation to have a secular marriage might become too strong over time.

I would implore anyone on this forum who is in a position of church leadership to please begin seeking answers and solutions while all the people dealing with this problem continue to pray and work hard on being good Christians.

"To not engage in sinful and lustful pre-marital activities is in many ways frowned on, even by some Christians. For those of us who choose not to engage in these activities, our pool of potential partners is very slim."

There is a lot of truth to this statement. There is also a problem Ive noticed thats a little more hidden. there are some people who are fairly neutral on this. They will abstain from sex until marriage if that is what their partner wants but they also will have sex before marriage if thats what the partner wants. To be blunt I'm not going to get along with someone who has that attitude. We might be able to be friends but I'm never going to pursue a relationship with them so long as that is their attitude towards it. THOSE people very much are hard to see. Its fairly easy to figure out if someone isn't wanting to remain chaste when dating. But the neutral attitude is a little less overt.

LaBèlla said:
The Internet had a huge impact on the dating pool. Many people look online and for some that’s their only method. It’s easier to write a profile and let potential suitors come to you rather than giving others a chance if they don’t appeal.

The same criteria that warrants consideration in your youth applies when older. Give attention to your appearance and fitness. Develop your communication and conversational skills. Address bad habits and attitudes. Be willing to learn and try new things.

Everyone is taking a gamble. The more appealing the gamble is the greater your likelihood for success. This holds true whether you’re looking for a Christian or secular partner.

I really dislike the way the internet effects dating. Ive met people in person who have gotten along with very well that if I had seen a dating profile of them I would have never given them a chance. Dating profiles have NOTHING of substance on them. You basically just get to know what they look like, their hobbies, and what they say their values are (which are often different than what their true values are even if they don't realize it). I try to give people a chance. A lot of really attractive people become ugly when they open their mouth, and a lot of less attractive people become quite attractive as you see their character as a person. Online dating basically skips this entire concept.

Newtheran said:
I'm not sure if your school has one of these...

About OCF

Perhaps a nearby school has one? Perhaps you could get one started on your campus?

Actually, I don't think the advice was given to you as a joke...in fact, it's very sound advice. You could do a great deal worse in life than marrying a traditional Russian or Eastern European girl who is interested in being a homemaker and raising a family...that's going to take some flexibility on your part in terms of cultural adjustment.

the closest OCF is over an hour away I'm also a little old for it. I'm 26. Yes I'm a 26 year old still in college (long story but i finish up this year). I feel so old compared to most of the people around me. we are in very different life places and most of my friends are actually a good 3-10 years older than I am.

I don't think driving over an hour to get their would be super beneficial.I would rather just drive to an event at my church (which is about an hour and a half away).

as for marrying an "traditional" russian or eastern European girl I don't have any issues with it but I found the way it was suggested to be somewhat predatory. I also tend to avoid people who use the word "Traditional" like a hammer. I'm not looking for a woman to be an underling, but a partner. If we don't have children I would expect her to be working a job or pursuing some form of education, the same I expect of myself. If we mutually decide that it would be better for her to be a stay at home mom when we have kids then I have no problem with that. But I'm very nervous about people who want to get married and immediately start popping out children as if thats their biggest goal in life.

Newtheran · Aug 6, 2019

Coolbutclueless said:
If we don't have children I would expect her to be working a job or pursuing some form of education, the same I expect of myself.

Does that sound like "husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself for it?" Perhaps you're approaching this with a bit too much cultural egalitarianism. My wife hasn't had to work a day in her life since I met her; barring serious illness or injury I think that's pretty intrinsic to the duty a husband has to his family.

dzheremi · Aug 6, 2019

Newtheran said:
Does that sound like "husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself for it?" Perhaps you're approaching this with a bit too much cultural egalitarianism. My wife hasn't had to work a day in her life since I met her; barring serious illness or injury I think that's pretty intrinsic to the duty a husband has to his family.

This is rather unrealistic for today. America has been a nation of majority dual-income households for years now, and that's far more likely among younger people like the OP. From a Pew study from 2015:

It may or may not be a husband's duty to his family to be the sole breadwinner, but it hasn't been the reality for the majority of American households since about 1980 -- 13 years before the OP was even born.

Newtheran · Aug 6, 2019

dzheremi said:
This is rather unrealistic for today. America has been a nation of majority dual-income households for years now, and that's far more likely among younger people like the OP.

America is a lot of things that aren't necessarily appropriate for a Christian household to adopt or model. Today, it is a largely pagan culture.

dzheremi · Aug 6, 2019

Alright. No arguments about that. My only point is that it's by and large not economically feasible today.

I'm over a decade older than the OP, and even I only know one couple my age who manage to live on one income with no outside assistance, and that's because the husband has worked his way up to a position where he is more less irreplaceable within a worldwide medical device manufacturing company, and he did that by working there for the past 16 years. So maybe if the OP had started in his current job (whatever it is) when he was 10 years old, he might be able to say the same thing, but I can't imagine anyone who is starting out now or has less time than that put in at the average company being able to say the same. Regardless of what that is blamed on, it's still the reality for most young people.

Newtheran · Aug 6, 2019

Hey, at least you all aren't dealing with the fallout from the Josh Harris "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" nonsense where a bunch of evangelicals wasted their 20s in young adult groups under leadership that actively discouraged seeking out a spouse within such groups.

GoingByzantine · Aug 6, 2019

Agreed with dzheremi. It can be unrealistic to live on one income unless you are a high ranking executive, or own a sucessful business (especially in expensive urban areas). This is especially true if you plan to raise multiple children as most Orthodox do.

Besides that, this idea that a woman has to sit at home and be a good housewife is somewhat silly. Its an idea that originates from an narrow minded western protestant view of the world. While women are naturally good at rearing families and managing the house, they can certianly work as well. Go to India, or Egypt or any developing country. There are women working in markets, hauling water, selling wares, cooking food, making handicrafts, farming etc. These women are able to work and raise a family. There is nothing wrong with that.

bèlla · Aug 6, 2019

dzheremi said:
Alright. No arguments about that. My only point is that it's by and large not economically feasible today.

It isn’t economically feasible due to lack of planning. I’m doing this right now with my daughter and she will be a stay-at-home wife and mother for all her days,

This is possible through financial discipline and vision. She didn’t mortgage herself for an education, create excessive credit card debt, or strike out on her own and incur the expenses that choice brings.

Discipline and patience meant her earnings are wholly hers and her living expenses are next to none. Remaining at home has given her greater discretionary income and the ability to pursue entrepreneurship without encumbrances.

She will be out of the workforce in less than two years and earning an income from home. We designed our plan based on the lifestyle she sought in light of her purpose. While her peers are enjoying their freedoms she’s toiled for a different aim. Financial independence and peace.

She’s done her part. I won’t sanction a union with anyone who hasn’t done the same. We don’t fall into life. We’re meant to seek the Lord’s direction and allow Him to order our steps. Where do you think the idea came from? ;-)

SingularityOne · Aug 6, 2019

I do think that the nurturer should stay home to take care of the children until around age 7, however, I don’t think it’s a bad idea for both parents to work, just so as long as the children are getting the nurturing they need in the formitive years of their life.

Satan, through our society, is trying to tear the family apart. So by both parents working, their plan is succeeding. Who are the “parents” of our society today...? The teachers and babysitters... unless the nurturer can stay at home or a grandparent can help raise the child while the female works for a short section of the day... however, that’s the worst case scenario.

Coolbutclueless · Aug 7, 2019

Newtheran said:
Does that sound like "husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself for it?" Perhaps you're approaching this with a bit too much cultural egalitarianism. My wife hasn't had to work a day in her life since I met her; barring serious illness or injury I think that's pretty intrinsic to the duty a husband has to his family.

Thats a huge stretch. Put it this way. If a woman is married and doesn't have children. WHAT is she doing if she doesn't have a job? It does not take that much effort to "Manage the home" when its 2 people with no children. Each person can easily pull their own weight when it comes to household chores without it taking up much time. It certainly doesn't taken 8 hours a day. I have no problem with stay at home moms, its a great thing if the family can afford to do it. That said if their are no children in the picture then there are really only 2 reasons for her to stay home. The first is health issues (understandable I had a time in my own life where I was stuck at home due to health issues. It is what it is), the second is laziness. Laziness isn't a great quality in a spouse.

Newtheran · Aug 7, 2019

Coolbutclueless said:
Thats a huge stretch. Put it this way. If a woman is married and doesn't have children. WHAT is she doing if she doesn't have a job? It does not take that much effort to "Manage the home" when its 2 people with no children. Each person can easily pull their own weight when it comes to household chores without it taking up much time. It certainly doesn't taken 8 hours a day. I have no problem with stay at home moms, its a great thing if the family can afford to do it. That said if their are no children in the picture then there are really only 2 reasons for her to stay home. The first is health issues (understandable I had a time in my own life where I was stuck at home due to health issues. It is what it is), the second is laziness. Laziness isn't a great quality in a spouse.

You certainly have the right to the opinion that childless homemakers are either sick or lazy.

I need to either find a spouse or learn how to be at peace with being single, how do I do that?

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