I give up: I'd rather go backwards, than forwards (in Evolution)

[Shemjaza]

I didn't say "I already have genetic traits", I said "I already have relevant mutations, without adding to them".

I don't understand what you mean by: "without adding to them"

Can you explain?

 

[Gottservant]

I don't understand what you mean by: "without adding to them"

Can you explain?

Without adding to the mutations.

 

[Gottservant]

Alrighty, and how would you do that then.



No, I didn't, but perhaps I will when you flesh out that first step. How do you innovate the absence of wisdom teeth? Do be specific, I want an SOP style step by step instruction set. [...]

I just said? Wisdom teeth -> teeth in general -> words in general -> specific words.

Your argument is basically, the population still has wisdom teeth, so individuals have to wait for the rest? And then, when it's too late to elaborate, evolution will take the credit for those individuals that subsequently became a population?

Or does it go the other way? I mate more easily without wisdom teeth, so I have more of a population to my name??

 

[Shemjaza]

Without adding to the mutations.

But you don't add to mutations... you need to be born with them. You don't get them later in life and they aren't a choice.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

Can I name being beyond the reach of a selection pressure?

What would you call it??

Is it something I can refine???

Name it Adens sapientiae.

 

[Tanj]

I just said? Wisdom teeth -> teeth in general -> words in general -> specific words.

That's entirely unhelpful. That would be like someone asking NASA how to get to the moon and they say rocket -> moon.

You have given me nothing to work with. Very duplicitous of you. Try again. Give me the steps I can actually take to go from wisdom teeth to teeth in general, or I'll have to assume you don't believe anything you actually post.

Your argument is basically, the population still has wisdom teeth, so individuals have to wait for the rest? And then, when it's too late to elaborate, evolution will take the credit for those individuals that subsequently became a population?

Nope, that's not even in the same universe as my argument.

Or does it go the other way? I mate more easily without wisdom teeth, so I have more of a population to my name??

I've answered enough of your questions, time for you to answer some of mine. Start with that first one.

 

[Gottservant]

But you don't add to mutations... you need to be born with them. You don't get them later in life and they aren't a choice.

If you want to limit the context to the womb, fine, "I had the necessary mutation in the womb".

That doesn't account for why it needs to be acknowledged in the womb, for it to work.

You are basically tightening the noose, hoping that I will attribute my development to Evolution and not God.

 

[Gottservant]

That's entirely unhelpful. That would be like someone asking NASA how to get to the moon and they say rocket -> moon.

What do you want? I understand rocket -> moon. There is nothing wrong with saying "rocket -> moon".
You mean from the concept "rocket" a change of setting can be changed to "moon".

Saying its more complicated than that, is like saying "English is redundant"?

You have given me nothing to work with. Very duplicitous of you. Try again. Give me the steps I can actually take to go from wisdom teeth to teeth in general, or I'll have to assume you don't believe anything you actually post.

I've answered enough of your questions, time for you to answer some of mine. Start with that first one.

Basically, the DNA for development of wisdom teeth, getting cut, means that DNA for other teeth may be cut, from that DNA for words, and finally DNA for concepts.

If you don't believe DNA changes according to context, you are never going to believe that DNA can be adapted for anything.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

If you want to limit the context to the womb, fine, "I had the necessary mutation in the womb".

That doesn't account for why it needs to be acknowledged in the womb, for it to work.

The mutations relevant to evolution affect the individual in some significant way and are heritable (i.e. germ cell mutations). This pretty much means that those mutations must be present in every cell, which will only occur if they happen between production of parental sperm & egg and the earliest stages of development of the embryo.

 

[Shemjaza]

If you want to limit the context to the womb, fine, "I had the necessary mutation in the womb".

That doesn't account for why it needs to be acknowledged in the womb, for it to work.

I doesn't need to be acknowledged, because it isn't a decision.

It's just a reality about you.

You are basically tightening the noose, hoping that I will attribute my development to Evolution and not God.

I don't care what you attribute traits to, it's irrelevant to the point.

Evolution is just a consequence of there being a variety of genetic traits in a population. It's not an alternative to God it's not affected by God one way or the other.

A trait is an advantage in an environment whether it came from a natural mutation or it was put there by a miracle from God. It's origin doesn't matter to how it effects the creature that was born with it.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Do you have wisdom teeth? Or did you used to?

Dodging the point.
Again, you don't know the slightest about evolution and it clearly shows.

 

[Gottservant]

Dodging the point.
Again, you don't know the slightest about evolution and it clearly shows.

Can you explain, why you can't answer the question? If believing in Evolution, depends on it?

Am I wrong to think that Evolution applies to me at all? Even when it does? I mean I specifically have an adaptation that other people don't have??

 

[Gottservant]

I think there is something spurious, going on under the hood here:

Why don't you just kill other individuals, to ensure the population, exhibits your traits?

You're always going on about how important the population is, but if you are going to be out-evolved, why not fight back??

 

[Shemjaza]

I think there is something spurious, going on under the hood here:

Why don't you just kill other individuals, to ensure the population, exhibits your traits?

You're always going on about how important the population is, but if you are going to be out-evolved, why not fight back??

It's not a useful pattern for survival or thriving.

However there is an example in nature that is similar.

There is a species of bird who often get cuckoos stashing their eggs in their nests, so this species of bird will immediately throw any eggs or hatch-lings out of the nest so that they can be cared for alone by their parents.

This means that parent birds lay multiple eggs, but only get one chick, but they are less likely to get no chicks because a cuckoo killed the rest.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Can you explain, why you can't answer the question? If believing in Evolution, depends on it?

Am I wrong to think that Evolution applies to me at all? Even when it does? I mean I specifically have an adaptation that other people don't have??

Again, you are showing that you do not understand evolution at all.

I'm 26 and I've never had to worry about wisdom teeth. I don't have them, I've never seen them on the x-rays I've had at my dentist and I've never had the slightest inkling from my dentist that they're going to be a problem. You are not unique in not having wisdom teeth.

I think there is something spurious, going on under the hood here:

Why don't you just kill other individuals, to ensure the population, exhibits your traits?

You're always going on about how important the population is, but if you are going to be out-evolved, why not fight back??

Because that's called eugenics and leads to mass murder and is very heavily frowned upon in all cultures, countries and societies in the world.

 

[Gottservant]

Again, you are showing that you do not understand evolution at all.

I'm 26 and I've never had to worry about wisdom teeth. I don't have them, I've never seen them on the x-rays I've had at my dentist and I've never had the slightest inkling from my dentist that they're going to be a problem. You are not unique in not having wisdom teeth.
[...]

Ok. You passed the test, but what does it feel like? What has changed, since you realised you had unconsciously done something to enhance your survival?

What is it that you tell others, is a further hallmark of your adaptability? How do you remind yourself, to be humble, despite being more advanced? Is it something you do daily?

Without these things, what will prevent your children from becoming throwback to a time when wisdom teeth were the norm? You haven't even been grateful and you expect them to benefit? What would be the foundation of that?

I am asking a lot of questions, but I am sincerely intrigued - I guess in a sense, mostly that it can't not be something which "feeling" plays a part in (you realise feelings are a sign that you are alive, right?)

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Ok. You passed the test, but what does it feel like? What has changed, since you realised you had unconsciously done something to enhance your survival?

What is it that you tell others, is a further hallmark of your adaptability? How do you remind yourself, to be humble, despite being more advanced? Is it something you do daily?

Without these things, what will prevent your children from becoming throwback to a time when wisdom teeth were the norm? You haven't even been grateful and you expect them to benefit? What would be the foundation of that?

I am asking a lot of questions, but I am sincerely intrigued - I guess in a sense, mostly that it can't not be something which "feeling" plays a part in (you realise feelings are a sign that you are alive, right?)

You need to stop conflating evolution and adaptation and mutation with conscious choices. You cannot choose to have a mutation or adaptation. You don't get to pick and choose what changes inside your body, in your genetics. It is a result of hereditary genes and environment.

Evolution is not something to be thankful for, it is not something I give thanks to. Evolution is just a fact and facet of biology.

You're asking questions, but they are nonsensical and insipid.

 

[Gottservant]

You need to stop conflating evolution and adaptation and mutation with conscious choices. You cannot choose to have a mutation or adaptation. You don't get to pick and choose what changes inside your body, in your genetics. It is a result of hereditary genes and environment.

Evolution is not something to be thankful for, it is not something I give thanks to. Evolution is just a fact and facet of biology.

You're asking questions, but they are nonsensical and insipid.

The Australian Science magazine reported that DNA was seasonally affected inside flowers. If the flower believed something other than the current season, it's DNA would change to reflect that.

All I am doing is asking you to reflect on what is most likely affecting your belief - your DNA to an extent, but also belief through that DNA.

Why do you think we like language? Because it reminds us we don't have to do anything?

It's like I said to you elsewhere: feelings are a sign you are alive - so far you have shown little reason for me to believe your theory reflects life.

Jesus talked about mourning and joy and all manner of observations of the world around Him, why you think that is irrelevant, is at least temporarily beyond me.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

The Australian Science magazine reported that DNA was seasonally affected inside flowers. If the flower believed something other than the current season, it's DNA would change to reflect that.

All I am doing is asking you to reflect on what is most likely affecting your belief - your DNA to an extent, but also belief through that DNA.

Why do you think we like language? Because it reminds us we don't have to do anything?

It's like I said to you elsewhere: feelings are a sign you are alive - so far you have shown little reason for me to believe your theory reflects life.

Jesus talked about mourning and joy and all manner of observations of the world around Him, why you think that is irrelevant, is at least temporarily beyond me.

There is no 'belief through DNA'. Biology does not work that way.

Do you know anything about basic biology, or even basic science?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

The Australian Science magazine reported that DNA was seasonally affected inside flowers. If the flower believed something other than the current season, it's DNA would change to reflect that.

You seem to be confusing 'belief' with 'sensing the environment', which is somewhat bizarre...