Nathan Poe
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If it's anything like how God had "used" you, then FG is much better off the way he is.
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I don't believe in evolution... (2)
- Thread starter Zongerfield
- Start date
If it's anything like how God had "used" you, then FG is much better off the way he is.
HosannaHM
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If that's not the pot calling the kettle black.
I've tried embracing Christian brotherhood and reproof with you several times but you refuse to come down from your throne of righteousness.
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TheReasoner
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Zongerfield, he's not saying anything you haven't said first yourself. He's challenged you, as have multiple others here. You haven't listened in fact you've taken your ... Not commendable attitude - and made them permanent in your signature.
If you try setting yourself in our shoes this kind of language - or worse - is how most of your posts are read. It's what you've been telling everyone on here. And then quite a bit more to boot.
So why are you hurt?
You sure you're not guilty and confusing the feelings?
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HosannaHM
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Ridiculous. Faith Guardian has done nothing but quote scripture and his points are all valid. Just read your bible- actually ask someone at church or wherever you are to read the bible with you. Your interpretation scares me. The worst type of theologian is the one who thinks he/she has the Word completely discerned. Where are the fruits? Where is the love?
Telling someone to have an experience to follow God is one thing, recruiting them to follow you is another. I pray for you to come down from the pulpit and try learning again.
Faith Guardian is not the problem. YOU are. You've allowed your heart to be calloused by hate and oppresion instead of the love and grace of Jesus Christ. Twisting the faith is detrimental to spiritual growth.
I'm sorry if this is bold, but you are NOT bearing fruit. Get with the reality of things this is EVIL. You are advocating death and EVIL.
Would Jesus Christ say death to the sinners! Death to the oppresors! Death to all those who oppose God. The truth is ALL MEN HAVE SINNED. We have all went against God... If you don't think you have check your bible again (please with the help of someone else especially studying the OT) Jesus came to bring life! Not war, hate, and segregation- Faith, hope, love and eternal life!!
Refocus. Refrain. and Reestablish. Turn your eyes to Jesus. Please, I am not attacking you; I'm asking out of concern. I know it's difficult....God did not place you here to be His wrath. He can handle that department; He placed you here to glorify Him by reflecting Christ to everyone. God bless
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Archaeopteryx
Wanderer
Reading Clirus' posts, one gets the sense that this is exactly what she feels Government should be: the arbiter of God's wrath on sinners. She frequently emphasizes that God is both a God of love and of righteousness. Her ideology, however, implies that man can subvert God and exercise his righteousness for him and on his behalf. Can fallen and sinful man be entrusted with the authority to execute judgment and wrath on sinners? The authority that, if one reads the Bible, God alone possesses? Is this not a case of subverting his authority to exercise righteousness as he wills it, while at the same time claiming to do it for him and on his behalf?
You raise an interesting point, however, with regard to what the purpose of Christianity is (and correspondingly the role of a Christian). It is to reflect Christ (i.e. 'I am the vine, you are the branches'), not to be the arbiter of his wrath on sinners ('Vengeance is mine, says the Lord.') To reflect Christ means to strive, in as much as is one capable, to model one's life on him. To project one's being toward him (in an existentialist sense) and to seek communion with him, trusting that he alone has the authority to do authentic justice just as he alone has the authority to grant grace to those he chooses.
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sdmsanjose
Regular Member
.
Faith Guardian, Tulc, Nathan, Lion hearted Man, Art, iamnot87, and all the rest:
Should we ignore all of Zongerfields posts?
He may be really getting affected based upon his last post.
We all know that he has a very odd interpretation of the Bible but I doubt that we are going to do much good for him. As much as his view and attitude seem so twisted to me, his last post may be telling us that he is getting to a dangerous point.
What do you all think? If we keep debating him will it be dangerous for him?
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TheReasoner
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I think it appears that Z has a few issues that need ironing out in order for a healthy debate to be possible for him on this forum, or others. As I don't want any harm to come to him I vote YES. I'd prefer it for him to get those issues sorted out but it's far more important to me that he doesn't fall back into a problematic pattern or develop one than debating is.
That said, I think Z will regardless be distraught at what he reads here. Very very few appear to share his views so even though we ignore him I think he might still encounter problems.
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HosannaHM
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I think it could be a bad thing to keep talking to him, even if it has been mostly constructive. This last post by Zonger shows he can dish out the rebukes but not receive helpful consult. I wish the absolute best for all my christian brothers and sisters plus everyone else on the forum, and I think this is a good idea you've proposed.
The biggest problem- Clirus and Zongerfield both hold their theology without error. Not innerrancy of the scripture, but of their interpretation which is horrible. It's not possible to show someone where they are flawed when they don't believe they are.
We all want to see a change of heart, a wake up call, a divine intervention or some form of humble pie. The best approach is to pray for them, and hope they can refocus.
That's 2 votes for YES
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Nathan Poe
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I suppose I'll vote "yes" as well -- he does seem to need help above and beyond what we're able to provide.
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Charlie V
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I haven't been on this thread for a while, I believe over a week. There are several reasons, one, and the most important one, is that I have other important things to do--in particular, my writing. I'm in the process of writing, now, three books (I just started a new one) and also have many other important priorities in my life.
Another is this: I told the story of my father's descent from the man who invented a product worth billions of dollars, who worked as a loyal employee for a company that did not show him the same loyalty in return, until, ultimately, he was depending on others to bring him his groceries, living in unhealthy conditions, and died after a bout of congestive heart failure, unable to afford even a $10 copay.
The response from Zongerfield? It's my father's fault because he didn't get a really good lawyer to defeat a major corporation, because, of course, that's very easy to do and anyone could do that. Blaming the victim.
I want to point to a couple previous posts.
Take your own advice, Zongerfield. You accuse those who are truly victimized of "adopting a victim mentality." You tell them, life is hard and unfair--get over it, don't adopt a victim mentality, there's always God. Then you blame the members of this board for your depression and alcohol addiction.
There is nothing the people in this board can do to you to cause your depression or drinking. You are always free to shut off your computer, go read a book, watch television, wash your hair, learn to juggle, do a newspaper crossword puzzle, or anything other than get depressed and drink and come to this forum. (Perhaps even lay in bed and count sheep, if it's 2 AM?) And the notion that people who strongly disagree with your positions are "bullies" or "laughing at" you is utter nonsense.
There is something that major corporations are doing that destroys people's lives. The genuine hopelessness they instill, the true inescapable situations they create, the poverty of hard working people, the destruction of the lives of individuals and entire communities for the sake of addition, excessive profit, is something that would give reasonable people a reason to get depressed, perhaps even reasons to seek escape in drugs or alcohol--things my father never did. You smugly lectured me about my father's failure to get a good lawyer (after all, they're everywhere available to poor people) after a major, multi-billion dollar corporation robbed him of his life's work left him penniless, begging for groceries, and unable to afford a doctor's copay when he was dying. You did not see my father. You do not know all that he did for that company, how hard he worked for so many years, and you do not know what he went through after he was laid off, how hard he tried to put his life back together, and you did not see my father with his legs, swollen to two or three times their size and blue, and hear his voice when he explained to me that, he will just have to get better on his own because he can't afford a $10 copay. That you could say anything to blame the victim in this case, a situation which you know nothing about, boggles the mind.
Zongerfield, one of these two people--you, or my father--is a genuine victim, a victim of an unfair system who had genuinely been harmed, so badly that the word "bullied" is unbelievably inadequate to describe what occurred. One of these two people truly did everything in his power to overcome, and was dragged down in a way that no human being ever should.
And one of these two people--you, or my father--is using "victim mentality," is blaming others for his own faults and failures.
I will leave it to others to decide which is which.
No amount of blaming the victim or posturing in order to to hold onto a house-of-cards political position where corporations are wonderful and the poor are lazy, will change what happened to my father, what they did to him.
I will only add that depression is a medical condition. So is alcoholism. If you are truly depressed, there is help out there. There are Alcoholics Anonymous groups, and there are free clinics with psychiatrists available to help you with your depression... there is much more help available to you than there ever was for my father.
I wish you enlightenment, and I forgive, and will pray for you.
There is light at the end of the tunnel. Stop trying to be right, and try to find the light instead.
I join others in leaving this thread, again.
Charlie
Another is this: I told the story of my father's descent from the man who invented a product worth billions of dollars, who worked as a loyal employee for a company that did not show him the same loyalty in return, until, ultimately, he was depending on others to bring him his groceries, living in unhealthy conditions, and died after a bout of congestive heart failure, unable to afford even a $10 copay.
The response from Zongerfield? It's my father's fault because he didn't get a really good lawyer to defeat a major corporation, because, of course, that's very easy to do and anyone could do that. Blaming the victim.
I want to point to a couple previous posts.
Take your own advice, Zongerfield. You accuse those who are truly victimized of "adopting a victim mentality." You tell them, life is hard and unfair--get over it, don't adopt a victim mentality, there's always God. Then you blame the members of this board for your depression and alcohol addiction.
There is nothing the people in this board can do to you to cause your depression or drinking. You are always free to shut off your computer, go read a book, watch television, wash your hair, learn to juggle, do a newspaper crossword puzzle, or anything other than get depressed and drink and come to this forum. (Perhaps even lay in bed and count sheep, if it's 2 AM?) And the notion that people who strongly disagree with your positions are "bullies" or "laughing at" you is utter nonsense.
There is something that major corporations are doing that destroys people's lives. The genuine hopelessness they instill, the true inescapable situations they create, the poverty of hard working people, the destruction of the lives of individuals and entire communities for the sake of addition, excessive profit, is something that would give reasonable people a reason to get depressed, perhaps even reasons to seek escape in drugs or alcohol--things my father never did. You smugly lectured me about my father's failure to get a good lawyer (after all, they're everywhere available to poor people) after a major, multi-billion dollar corporation robbed him of his life's work left him penniless, begging for groceries, and unable to afford a doctor's copay when he was dying. You did not see my father. You do not know all that he did for that company, how hard he worked for so many years, and you do not know what he went through after he was laid off, how hard he tried to put his life back together, and you did not see my father with his legs, swollen to two or three times their size and blue, and hear his voice when he explained to me that, he will just have to get better on his own because he can't afford a $10 copay. That you could say anything to blame the victim in this case, a situation which you know nothing about, boggles the mind.
Zongerfield, one of these two people--you, or my father--is a genuine victim, a victim of an unfair system who had genuinely been harmed, so badly that the word "bullied" is unbelievably inadequate to describe what occurred. One of these two people truly did everything in his power to overcome, and was dragged down in a way that no human being ever should.
And one of these two people--you, or my father--is using "victim mentality," is blaming others for his own faults and failures.
I will leave it to others to decide which is which.
No amount of blaming the victim or posturing in order to to hold onto a house-of-cards political position where corporations are wonderful and the poor are lazy, will change what happened to my father, what they did to him.
I will only add that depression is a medical condition. So is alcoholism. If you are truly depressed, there is help out there. There are Alcoholics Anonymous groups, and there are free clinics with psychiatrists available to help you with your depression... there is much more help available to you than there ever was for my father.
I wish you enlightenment, and I forgive, and will pray for you.
There is light at the end of the tunnel. Stop trying to be right, and try to find the light instead.
I join others in leaving this thread, again.
Charlie
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DaisyDay
I Did Nothing Wrong!! ~~Team Deep State
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Psst, Charlie - either Zongerfield is having a meltdown. The claim is that you all have driven him to drink and insomnia with your ingratitude and hostile bullying.
I ask all of you - ALL OF YOU!! - to join me in prayer that Zongerfield will soon recover his spirits. 
I ask all of you - ALL OF YOU!! - to join me in prayer that Zongerfield will soon recover his spirits.
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TheReasoner
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Psst, Charlie - either Zongerfield is having a meltdown. The claim is that you all have driven him to drink and insomnia with your ingratitude and hostile bullying.
Of course. So long as that's not an unfortunate pun. Spirits=alcohol you know
I don't think time matters but if you want to set a time...
Unsubscribing btw. Drop me a pm if you want.
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Nathan Poe
Well-Known Member
Including John 18:36?
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
Face it, clirus -- you're only interested in this world, not the one promised to you.
The Christians want power and authority for themselves -- the government gives it to those who have earned it.
So take a hike, mammon.
Sounds like between the Church and the State, you have no need of God.
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Archaeopteryx
Wanderer
You are confusing Atheistic with Secular; the two are not the same.
Actually, the public school does not tell the children that 'God has no authority'. The public school teaches children about Science.
We all know what you mean by that... persecuting non-believers for their non-belief! Barring their access to positions of leadership. Forcing them back into the proverbial closet. Killing them even, and then claiming that they were not killed because they were executed. Killing civilian men, women and children and then claiming that they were neither civilians nor killed because their deaths were authorized in war. Make no mistake, we are familiar with the numerous brutal and ruinous aspects of the ideology you endorse. And thus far it has failed to gain any significant support. Christians have come to rebuke this ideology of yours; they have unequivocally declared that it is antithetical to their Christ.
None-the-less, you have once again failed to answer my question. Might I conjecture as to why? Because the answer to it would only make you appear even more controversial. Because the answer is that you would leave that man to rot. Yes? Or No?
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sdmsanjose
Regular Member
Thank you Art!
I hope everyone that reads Clirus realizes that all Christians that have responded are opposed to Clirus except for Zongerfield. Clirus tries to manipulate scripture to make her ideology look credible.
We know that Clirus would let that person that does not believe like she does rot in the street. She would not dare touch that non-believer in Clirus's Christianity. Kind of reminds me of the Pharisees that would not touch the “unclean” and washed their self 7 times a day. Jesus ate and fellowshipped with sinners and had some of his strongest rebuke words for the self-righteous Pharisees.
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Jane_the_Bane
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I suspect what happened in this thread was the following:
A person from the far-right end of the conservative spectrum came here to re-affirm his beliefs by delivering some of the stock phrases that are toted in those circles, expecting Yes's and Amens from all present.
Instead, he found that the sentiments and slogans that were so popular with his usual audiences were not only challenged and discussed, but actually caused negative reactions rather than affirmative cheers.
Now, if those negative reactions had come exclusively from Non-Christians, the cognitive dissonance would have been negligible: just file them away as "liberal wastrels" trying to undermine God's Glorious Country with their evil and sinful ways, and dust off your feet.
However, the fact that the vast majority of CHRISTIANS contested his POV was probably too much.
Zongerfield, if you read this: please realize that it was never our intention to attack you. There's a difference between your person and the arguments you present here - and it's exclusively the latter that we are discussing, in terms of content as well as of wording.
Realize that we do not know you as an individual - for all we know, you might be the most amiable person ever (in spite of your political views); the only thing we address here is what you write.
A person from the far-right end of the conservative spectrum came here to re-affirm his beliefs by delivering some of the stock phrases that are toted in those circles, expecting Yes's and Amens from all present.
Instead, he found that the sentiments and slogans that were so popular with his usual audiences were not only challenged and discussed, but actually caused negative reactions rather than affirmative cheers.
Now, if those negative reactions had come exclusively from Non-Christians, the cognitive dissonance would have been negligible: just file them away as "liberal wastrels" trying to undermine God's Glorious Country with their evil and sinful ways, and dust off your feet.
However, the fact that the vast majority of CHRISTIANS contested his POV was probably too much.
Zongerfield, if you read this: please realize that it was never our intention to attack you. There's a difference between your person and the arguments you present here - and it's exclusively the latter that we are discussing, in terms of content as well as of wording.
Realize that we do not know you as an individual - for all we know, you might be the most amiable person ever (in spite of your political views); the only thing we address here is what you write.
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Archaeopteryx
Wanderer
Let me refresh your memory:
I believe the State should have the right to refuse you employment in any leadership position such as teacher, judge, etc. because your views are not consistent with the Christian Lifestyle.
Atheists are usually socialists and pacifists, that oppose war and the death penalty, because they are the ones that should be executed. Opposition to the death penalty is a survival concept for evil people.
Are Christians to condone people that are infidels or should Christians support Civil Law that deals with infidels, even to the point of execution?
Atheists are usually socialists and pacifists, that oppose war and the death penalty, because they are the ones that should be executed. Opposition to the death penalty is a survival concept for evil people.
Are Christians to condone people that are infidels or should Christians support Civil Law that deals with infidels, even to the point of execution?
The government of good people should go to war with nations or groups of people that are a threat to the government/society as is instructed by the Old Testament of the Bible. The purpose of the war should be to do what ever it takes to win, in the shortest possible time, which includes the elimination/killing of men, women and children associated with the threat ... The war should be concluded only when the threat has been eliminated.
I believe the State has the right to either rebuke or execute homosexuals because there is health, safety and economic justification.
I believe homosexuality should be rebuked, but if homosexuals do not return to the closet from which they came, then other measures should be considered by the State. ... I believe the State has a right and a responsibility to protect the health and safety of the nation.
I believe the State has the right to either rebuke or execute homosexuals because there is health, safety and economic justification.
I believe homosexuality should be rebuked, but if homosexuals do not return to the closet from which they came, then other measures should be considered by the State. ... I believe the State has a right and a responsibility to protect the health and safety of the nation.
Which by the way, raises a pertinent question that you refuse to answer: will you save the life of the Atheist from his burning home?
As you can see, from your own words, I haven't made any 'strawman exaggeration'. Stop pretending that you are the victim of misrepresentation. You're not. Everyone knows what your ideology is about. No one is buying the sugar-coated pill you want them to swallow. We see it for the ruinous thing that it is. Maybe one day you will too.
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