I changed my stance on gun control!!!

[RDKirk]

The AR-15 often fires high energy rounds that do considerably more damage than a handgun or even many other rifles do. It makes the odds of a wound being fatal quite a bit higher. That along with the extended magazines one can obtain for that gun makes them very dangerous when it comes to mass shooting events.

No more than this one. It just looks more scary.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No more than this one. It just looks more scary.

You may be correct about bullet velocity. But that was only half of it. There is also the capacity of magazines to take onto consideration.

 

[renniks]

The AR-15 often fires high energy rounds that do considerably more damage than a handgun or even many other rifles do. It makes the odds of a wound being fatal quite a bit higher. That along with the extended magazines one can obtain for that gun makes them very dangerous when it comes to mass shooting events.

Lol, what the heck is a high energy round? Do they just make up this silly terms because they know nothing about guns?

 

[durangodawood]

....Fascism starts by winning over the people through populist psychological manipulation. The people clinging to their guns are the very people a populist, fascist leader would seek to manipulate and recruit. Those guns would be turned against the rest of us.....

Perfect.

Its a tyranny supported by wound up 2A worshippers thats a real possibility.

 

[durangodawood]

Lol, what the heck is a high energy round? Do they just make up this silly terms because they know nothing about guns?

Maybe he didnt use the right "gun words" but I think he's talking about things like this:

ALL GUNS CAN kill, but they do not kill equally.

Compare the damage an AR-15 and a 9mm handgun can do to the human body: “One looks like a grenade went off in there,” says Peter Rhee, a trauma surgeon at the University of Arizona. “The other looks like a bad knife cut.”

What an AR-15 Can Do to the Human Body

 

[Bradskii]

Lol, what the heck is a high energy round? Do they just make up this silly terms because they know nothing about guns?

Maybe you didn't do physics. E equals 1/2 mv².
E: energy
M: mass
V: velocity

A high energy round is one with a large mass and high muzzle velocity. A 180 grain bullet is a higher energy round than a 110 grain bullet fired from the same gun. If you have a choice then get shot by the lower energy one. Normally expressed in Joules (or some ancient medieval measurement in the US such as foot/pounds or inch/ounces or variations thereof).

 

[Subduction Zone]

Lol, what the heck is a high energy round? Do they just make up this silly terms because they know nothing about guns?

Seriously you do don't understand basic physics?

 

[RDKirk]

You may be correct about bullet velocity. But that was only half of it. There is also the capacity of magazines to take onto consideration.

The rifle I pictured also accepts extended magazines.

 

[RDKirk]

Maybe you didn't do physics. E equals 1/2 mv².
E: energy
M: mass
V: velocity

A high energy round is one with a large mass and high muzzle velocity. A 180 grain bullet is a higher energy round than a 110 grain bullet fired from the same gun. If you have a choice then get shot by the lower energy one. Normally expressed in Joules (or some ancient medieval measurement in the US such as foot/pounds or inch/ounces or variations thereof).

One of the most important criteria of the .233 round for the AR-15 is not its lethality or even its range...but its light weight. A soldier carries up to 218 rounds of .233 ammunition. There has always been a debate about whether it's even lethal enough for combat use, but it wins the competition by being just lethal enough for its weight.

 

[renniks]

Seriously you do don't understand basic physics?

The .223 is not a very powerful round. The media love to throw around words like ‘high-caliber’ and ‘high power’, but both of these are just plain incorrect. The .223 is a small caliber in most respects and is what most people consider a varmint cartridge. In fact a majority of serious hunters don’t even like it for deer and recommend against it if there are better options available. The .223 is ok on coyote, groundhogs, and other pests.
It's not some super caliber.
My 30.06 packs a whole lot more punch than that little round.

 

[renniks]

Maybe you didn't do physics. E equals 1/2 mv².
E: energy
M: mass
V: velocity

A high energy round is one with a large mass and high muzzle velocity. A 180 grain bullet is a higher energy round than a 110 grain bullet fired from the same gun. If you have a choice then get shot by the lower energy one. Normally expressed in Joules (or some ancient medieval measurement in the US such as foot/pounds or inch/ounces or variations thereof).

That would make the .223 used in the AR anything but high energy. The .223 is not a very powerful round. The media love to throw around words like ‘high-caliber’ and ‘high power’, but both of these are just plain incorrect. The .223 is a small caliber in most respects and is what most people consider a varmint cartridge. In fact a majority of serious hunters, myself included, don’t even like it for deer and recommend against it if there are better options available. The .223 is best put to use on coyote, groundhogs, and other pests.

 

[renniks]

Maybe he didnt use the right "gun words" but I think he's talking about things like this:


What an AR-15 Can Do to the Human Body

It's a varmint round. Not much bigger than a .22 mag.
I would not even use it on a deer, not enough impact.

 

[Bradskii]

The .223 is not a very powerful round.

Seems like you are determined to ignore the physics. Remember mass x velocity squared? Didn't see diameter mentioned anywhere.

 

[RDKirk]

Seems like you are determined to ignore the physics. Remember mass x velocity squared? Didn't see diameter mentioned anywhere.

It's a lethal round, but it's not astoundingly lethal. .357 Magnum in a pistol is more lethal, but with much shorter effective range and more difficult to handle than .233 in a rifle.

The point is, the specter of the AR-15 is mostly a boogeyman.

But then, maybe I shouldn't tell people that.

Oh, yeah, all you anti-gun people. Just outlaw the AR-15. That will solve all the problems and there won't be any need for any more gun laws.

 

[Bradskii]

It's a lethal round, but it's not astoundingly lethal.

Well, how lethal it is depends on the numbers you put into the equation, doesn't it. Do you know how it works? And I still don't see diameter mentioned anywhere. And I think that if a standard .223 can bust through 3mm of steel plate at a half a kilometre then it could well be described as 'astoundingly lethal'. If you're using this for domestic defence then I think the term 'overkill' is applicable.

Where would you keep it? Under the bed? Or maybe your neighbourhood punks call ahead so you can unlock it from your gun case and get it loaded. 'Is 10:30pm good for you?'

 

[RDKirk]

Well, how lethal it is depends on the numbers you put into the equation, doesn't it. Do you know how it works? And I still don't see diameter mentioned anywhere. And I think that if a standard .223 can bust through 3mm of steel plate at a half a kilometre then it could well be described as 'astoundingly lethal'. If you're using this for domestic defence then I think the term 'overkill' is applicable.

Where would you keep it? Under the bed? Or maybe your neighbourhood punks call ahead so you can unlock it from your gun case and get it loaded. 'Is 10:30pm good for you?'

When I talk about "lethality," I am taking all the numbers into account, as well as the profile of the bullet itself.

BTW, I do not own and have no intention of buying an AR-15.

But, sure, everyone look at that AR-15 over there! Look over there at that AR-15!

 

[Bradskii]

When I talk about "lethality," I am taking all the numbers into account, as well as the profile of the bullet itself.

The fact that the 'lethality' can vary by as much as a factor of 2.5 seems to have avoided your attention. Double the mass, double the energy. Do deer in your part of the world wear 3mm steel plate armour?

 

[rturner76]

I am very pro-gun control. The more restricted the supply, the more difficult it is for people who would do ill with them to get their hands on them.

What law would you want to see passed? How would you restrict the supply? Who/what would be restricted?

 

[RocksInMyHead]

And I think that if a standard .223 can bust through 3mm of steel plate at a half a kilometre then it could well be described as 'astoundingly lethal'.

That would depend on whether or not your target was wearing armor. High penetrating power is both a blessing and a curse - the majority of the damage done by a bullet in a body is caused by the bullet tumbling around inside as it loses energy/bounces off of bones. If the bullet retains the energy to maintain a straight path through you (i.e. if not slowed down by distance or armor plate), it actually will cause relatively little damage as long as it doesn't directly hit something important. This is why it's not popular for hunting large game (like deer). .308 or .30-06 (the most popular hunting calibers) have much heavier bullets and travel much slower, so they will cause more damage and are less likely to overpenetrate large game.

If you're using this for domestic defence then I think the term 'overkill' is applicable.

I'd agree with this - .223 isn't the greatest home defense cartridge. While it does let you put down a large volume of accurate fire quickly, individual hits will be less damaging, and you run the risk of shooting through walls and hitting other occupants of your house (children, pets, partners) or neighbors.

I will say that, even as a liberal who is generally in favor of stricter gun laws, I do think that the AR-15 is overly demonized by the broader anti-gun community. It gets a lot of attention because it's the same style of gun that's used by most of the US military (minus the capability for automatic fire), variants can be obtained for a relatively low price, and it has a large aftermarket community that produces a massive variety of accessories including extended magazines and attachments that make the gun look significantly more threatening to the casual observer. In reality, there are hundreds of models of firearm that could fill the exact same role.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The .223 is not a very powerful round. The media love to throw around words like ‘high-caliber’ and ‘high power’, but both of these are just plain incorrect. The .223 is a small caliber in most respects and is what most people consider a varmint cartridge. In fact a majority of serious hunters don’t even like it for deer and recommend against it if there are better options available. The .223 is ok on coyote, groundhogs, and other pests.
It's not some super caliber.
My 30.06 packs a whole lot more punch than that little round.

You are conflating momentum with energy. The energy of any round is going to be directly tied to the amount of powder in the cartridge. After doing a little checking it appears at .223 round often has more powder behind it than a .30-06. That means the individual rounds are going to have more power. This is why I asked you about basic physics. If you remember the Rittenhouse case the person that he shot that had a handgun had most of his bicep destroyed by one round. The high velocity of it was the cause. A heavier slower bullet will stay in the body of even large game at times. That means all of its momentum is transferred to the animal. A .223 just leaves a trail of destruction in its path.