I changed my stance on gun control!!!

[renniks]

Yes, that is what one wants with game. A .223 round is also moving much much faster and does significant damage to the tissue it interacts with. You do not want that when hunting either. The problem was that you misinterpreted stopping power as lethality. They are not the same thing. Going back to the Rittenhouse case. A .22 would have gone all the way through his arm if it did not squarely hit the bone.. The damage would have been minimal. From a .223 the damage was so bad that without a tourniquet that becomes a fatal wound. That is what one wants when varmint hunting. One is not going to eat the meat so most wounds being fatal is ideal.

You ignored the obvious. Sheer stopping power is the most important in self defense. Which is why I wonder why the police carry 9mm. And the guy Kyle shot still has an arm. Sure, it did a lot of damage at three feet or whatever. It's still not a particularly lethal weapon comparatively. The media makes a big deal of the ARs, but they aren't some super powerful war machine.

 

[Astrid]

Thats what my ex cop neighbor recommended for me.

Shot gun is what i see guards at armoured car when the transfer money

 

[renniks]

A .223 round is also moving much much faster and does significant damage to the tissue it interacts with.

Not as much as the heavier rounds do. But you also have to consider what kind of bullet, soft tip or not and on and on. The point is that the AR is just not some super powerful war weapon, it's very much the same as most hunting rifles.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You ignored the obvious. Sheer stopping power is the most important in self defense. Which is why I wonder why the police carry 9mm. And the guy Kyle shot still has an arm. Sure, it did a lot of damage at three feet or whatever. It's still not a particularly lethal weapon comparatively. The media makes a big deal of the ARs, but they aren't some super powerful war machine.

I ignored nothing. You could have asked why police use 9 mms. There is plenty going for them. Ease of fire. Reliability. And one important factor is how easy it is to get off those second, third, fourth shots etc.. If an officer could always keep his head and had time to aim before firing a .45 might be the gun of choice. But police situations go from 0 to 100 in less than a second at times and sometimes "pray and spray" is a better technique. Ask the police why they made their choice if you want more details.

And we were discussing the damage done by .223's. The fact that you even have to say "And the guy Kyle shot still has an arm. Sure, it did a lot of damage at three feet or whatever." means that you still do not understand the weapon. That sort of damage is not done just close up. It has would do the same damage at twenty or even thirty feet. The velocity does not drop off very fast.

' “These weapons are designed for the purposes of killing or severely injuring large numbers of people in combat … The presence of these weapons in our society endangers the lives of every man, woman, and child in the United States,” the Western Trauma Association resolution stated.'

'He described turning over his first patient to find two fist-size holes in her abdomen. Her intestines had been shredded into a mixture of blood and feces by the explosive power of the AK-47-style rifle.'

Trauma Surgeons Among Those Calling For Assault Weapons Ban - Iowa Starting Line

These are surgeons that also work on gunshot wounds from more traditional firearms. They can tell when the get a patient that was shot with an assault weapon. They were designed to do this sort of damage. Almost losing an arm is significant compared to a regular through and through shot.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Not as much as the heavier rounds do. But you also have to consider what kind of bullet, soft tip or not and on and on. The point is that the AR is just not some super powerful war weapon, it's very much the same as most hunting rifles.

No, they are simply in another realm when it comes to damage done. But if that is the case you should have no complaints at all if hot rounds that have such high velocities are banned. After all, it makes not difference according to you.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I used to own a bunch of guns. I ended up in a situation where I could not store them so I end up having my lawyer dispose of them.

After 5 or so years of being gun-free, I became more sympathetic to the gun control crowd. I had no guns but I felt pretty safe anyway with 911 only minutes away, where I live so easy for police to mop up the criminals.

Recently I heard a question asked.....Who do you call when the police are criminals? Then I read a quote by Washington the said (paraphrase) There should be a rebellion every 20 years or so.

That made me think of the context the Constitution was written in. We need law-abiding citizens to own guns because we have a right to self-defense. Whether it's from a criminal or a totalitarian government, we need to be able to overthrow the government if need be. That is what Washington was saying.

I don't think we are anywhere near the point where we need to rise up, but we need to be able to if we get some Fascist in office suspends the Constitution or tries to dissolve our rights.


We have 2,000 laws about guns. No more gun laws......Agree or disagree......

Discuss.........

I think we have enough gun laws. The problems were seeing with guns are resulting from people breaking the gun laws not because we don’t have enough gun laws. That being said I would like to add that I would be supportive of a law that requires gun owners to secure their guns in a safe or with trigger locks so that they can’t be stolen or taken without permission or if they are stolen or taken without permission they can’t be used. Other than that I think the laws we currently have are sufficient.

 

[BNR32FAN]

It isn't. Washington used the militia to aid the government in putting down rebellion. The exact opposite of what you are saying.

The American Revolutionary War was a rebellion against Britain and began before America’s Independence Day before the American government was established. So Washington did use rebel militia to fight against the reigning government.

 

[BNR32FAN]

If they don't enforce what's on the books, why write new laws? Feels conspiratorial. It is not the public's safety they are after, is the feel of it.

I think it’s more about political appearances to sway the population in their favor. I also think the politicians seeking to remove guns from the public should set an example by getting rid of their armed guards so they can really show us all how much faith they have in emergency response times. I called 911 last week to report a wheelbarrow in the middle of the freeway and waited over 4 minutes for the police dept to answer. Good thing my life wasn’t in danger.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

So some say.
But thats not what i was talking about.
There's 40000 different Christian sects each with
a different version of what the Word actually means.

You are very wrong about that and it you clearly just made that up. You lack even a basic understanding of Christianity.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Thinking that the greatest military power in history can be overthrown by untrained first world civilians with small ams is delusional.

Not when that military is comprised of American citizens. If such an uprising did occur on a large scale I would expect that many military personnel would be supportive of it. On top of that a large percentage of civilians are ex military.

 

[Astrid]

You are very wrong about that and it you clearly just made that up. You lack even a basic understanding of Christianity.

Oh - I'm sorry, its actually about 45,000. A shame to underestimate.

Did you know that among those sects are those who thunk the " flood "
is entirely metaphorical, others that it is 100% literally true,
happened just as it is told?

Is it you think I am an ignorant liar because I am Chinese?

 

[renniks]

I ignored nothing. You could have asked why police use 9 mms. There is plenty going for them. Ease of fire. Reliability. And one important factor is how easy it is to get off those second, third, fourth shots etc.. If an officer could always keep his head and had time to aim before firing a .45 might be the gun of choice. But police situations go from 0 to 100 in less than a second at times and sometimes "pray and spray" is a better technique. Ask the police why they made their choice if you want more details.

And we were discussing the damage done by .223's. The fact that you even have to say "And the guy Kyle shot still has an arm. Sure, it did a lot of damage at three feet or whatever." means that you still do not understand the weapon. That sort of damage is not done just close up. It has would do the same damage at twenty or even thirty feet. The velocity does not drop off very fast.

' “These weapons are designed for the purposes of killing or severely injuring large numbers of people in combat … The presence of these weapons in our society endangers the lives of every man, woman, and child in the United States,” the Western Trauma Association resolution stated.'

'He described turning over his first patient to find two fist-size holes in her abdomen. Her intestines had been shredded into a mixture of blood and feces by the explosive power of the AK-47-style rifle.'

Trauma Surgeons Among Those Calling For Assault Weapons Ban - Iowa Starting Line

These are surgeons that also work on gunshot wounds from more traditional firearms. They can tell when the get a patient that was shot with an assault weapon. They were designed to do this sort of damage. Almost losing an arm is significant compared to a regular through and through shot.

So what are you comparing them to? Sure, if you are comparing them to a .22 pistol or a 9mm they do more damage. Compared to a full auto, not even close. And it's an actually amusing argument when you think about it. If it doesn't do a lot of damage, what good would it be for defense or hunting?
And you could not be more wrong about the spray and pray method. That is a recipe for disaster as we have seen many times.

 

[renniks]

No, they are simply in another realm when it comes to damage done. But if that is the case you should have no complaints at all if hot rounds that have such high velocities are banned. After all, it makes not difference according to you.

They are hunting rifles...no difference at all. Perfectly legal to use ARs for hunting. Less powerful than a .243...or .30 calibers... you need to actually do some research instead of listening to the MSM.

 

[dogs4thewin]

So you're saying Romans 13 is wrong? Do you think a law that protects gay people from discrimination is not of God? Or do you think that God would rather that gays be discriminated against?

The Bible says that gay marriage is wrong. Do I personally believe that being gay in and of it's self is wrong no.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Oh - I'm sorry, its actually about 45,000. A shame to underestimate.

There are thousands of sects but I never argued against that. I argued against your assertion that each one of them has a "different word of god" from each other. And you have yet to prove that.

Did you know that among those sects are those who thunk the " flood "
is entirely metaphorical, others that it is 100% literally true,
happened just as it is told?

The fact that there are so many sects who have the "flood" story means that they all have the same Word of God. That they interpret things differently is a different story, but they have the same Word of God.

Is it you think I am an ignorant liar because I am Chinese?

Are you saying that you are an "ignorant liar"? Because I didn't. And you are the one who is bringing your ethnicity into it. The only thing I might think from your being from China is that you are communist.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So what are you comparing them to? Sure, if you are comparing them to a .22 pistol or a 9mm they do more damage. Compared to a full auto, not even close. And it's an actually amusing argument when you think about it. If it doesn't do a lot of damage, what good would it be for defense or hunting?
And you could not be more wrong about the spray and pray method. That is a recipe for disaster as we have seen many times.

Self defense and hunting are two very different activities. For hunting they are not a good choice, unless one likes a bit more hamburger. What one wants with hunting is controlled damage. A .30-06 is a much better choice for big game because it stops it without excessive damage. Are you even reading my posts? The explanation of your errors is repeating now.

They are hunting rifles...no difference at all. Perfectly legal to use ARs for hunting. Less powerful than a .243...or .30 calibers... you need to actually do some research instead of listening to the MSM.

Legal, but clearly not the best choice. And once again the issue here is the damage done to flesh. There is no doubt that the .223 round does lots of damage. MSM does get emotional at times, but that does not make them automatically wrong. You seem to be getting your views from far less reliable sources.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The .223 is not a very powerful round. The media love to throw around words like ‘high-caliber’ and ‘high power’, but both of these are just plain incorrect. The .223 is a small caliber in most respects and is what most people consider a varmint cartridge. In fact a majority of serious hunters don’t even like it for deer and recommend against it if there are better options available. The .223 is ok on coyote, groundhogs, and other pests.
It's not some super caliber.
My 30.06 packs a whole lot more punch than that little round.

Yeah compare the damage an AR 15 does to the human body against most hunting rifles instead of a 9mm pistol. It’s not even a close comparison. A .30 Cal hunting round, which is not even a large caliber hunting round, does way more damage than a .223 and is the most common caliber used in hunting rifles.

 

[Subduction Zone]

There are thousands of sects but I never argued against that. I argued against your assertion that each one of them has a "different word of god" from each other. And you have yet to prove that.

She never made that claim, unless it was on a prior page. I may have to back and see if she claimed that. When you use quotes you should make sure that you are quoting what someone said, not what one wants them to have said. Using the copy and paste technique keeps one from making such an error. Her actual claim was:

"There's 40000 different Christian sects each with
a different version of what the Word actually means."

 

[BNR32FAN]

Seems like you are determined to ignore the physics. Remember mass x velocity squared? Didn't see diameter mentioned anywhere.

Diameter is directly related to mass. A physics expert should know this.

 

[BNR32FAN]

It's a lethal round, but it's not astoundingly lethal. .357 Magnum in a pistol is more lethal, but with much shorter effective range and more difficult to handle than .233 in a rifle.

The point is, the specter of the AR-15 is mostly a boogeyman.

But then, maybe I shouldn't tell people that.

Oh, yeah, all you anti-gun people. Just outlaw the AR-15. That will solve all the problems and there won't be any need for any more gun laws.

Ahh let em ban ARs I prefer an AK myself.