I changed my stance on gun control!!!

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rturner76

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I used to own a bunch of guns. I ended up in a situation where I could not store them so I end up having my lawyer dispose of them.

After 5 or so years of being gun-free, I became more sympathetic to the gun control crowd. I had no guns but I felt pretty safe anyway with 911 only minutes away, where I live so easy for police to mop up the criminals.

Recently I heard a question asked.....Who do you call when the police are criminals? Then I read a quote by Washington the said (paraphrase) There should be a rebellion every 20 years or so.

That made me think of the context the Constitution was written in. We need law-abiding citizens to own guns because we have a right to self-defense. Whether it's from a criminal or a totalitarian government, we need to be able to overthrow the government if need be. That is what Washington was saying.

I don't think we are anywhere near the point where we need to rise up, but we need to be able to if we get some Fascist in office suspends the Constitution or tries to dissolve our rights.


We have 2,000 laws about guns. No more gun laws......Agree or disagree......

Discuss.........
 

RocksInMyHead

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That made me think of the context the Constitution was written in. We need law-abiding citizens to own guns because we have a right to self-defense. Whether it's from a criminal or a totalitarian government, we need to be able to overthrow the government if need be. That is what Washington was saying.
First off, that's a quote from Jefferson, not Washington. It's also a heavy paraphrasing and lacking in context. Here's the actual letter that it comes from, discussing Shays' Rebellion: Establishing A Federal Republic - Thomas Jefferson | Exhibitions - Library of Congress

While he does voice support for the idea of rebellion, he also notes that rebellion often rises from the people being misinformed. And he was pretty much alone among the founders in his endorsement of Shays' Rebellion.

I don't think we are anywhere near the point where we need to rise up, but we need to be able to if we get some Fascist in office suspends the Constitution or tries to dissolve our rights.
This is why we have three branches of government and a series of checks and balances. Even at the height of Trumpian craziness, I never had any fear of this actually happening. I worried that he might try, but I had faith that he would be stopped by the system.

We have 2,000 laws about guns. No more gun laws......Agree or disagree......
Hard disagree.
 
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Tanj

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Recently I heard a question asked.....Who do you call when the police are criminals? Then I read a quote by Washington the said (paraphrase) There should be a rebellion every 20 years or so.

He never said that.

That is what Washington was saying.

It isn't. Washington used the militia to aid the government in putting down rebellion. The exact opposite of what you are saying.

"That these societies were instituted by the artful and designing members (many of their body I have no doubt mean well, but know little of the real plan,) primarily to sow the seeds of jealousy and distrust among the people, of the government, by destroying all confidence in the Administration of it" - GW to To Henry Lee Aug.22, 1794
 
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LeafByNiggle

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We have 2,000 laws about guns. No more gun laws......Agree or disagree......

Discuss.........

The sheer number of gun laws is not indicative of anything other than the degree of legal complexity inherent in the a government with so many jurisdictions, federal, state, city...

I think the number may have something to do with the Second Amendment. Laws regulating guns always have to be written with an eye to whether they might be found unconstitutional. So the legislators may approach the issue in a piece-meal fashion rather than in a simpler, but potentially stricter set of laws such as in other countries, almost all of which have stricter laws than the US, but perhaps expressed in a fewer number. I would favor repealing the Second Amendment, or at least overturning the Heller decision, which would allow the replacement of 2000 laws with maybe 20 laws with fewer exceptions. I don't think we need a high number of gun laws. We need the right set of gun laws, which could potentially be small in number.
 
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Occams Barber

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I used to own a bunch of guns. I ended up in a situation where I could not store them so I end up having my lawyer dispose of them.

After 5 or so years of being gun-free, I became more sympathetic to the gun control crowd. I had no guns but I felt pretty safe anyway with 911 only minutes away, where I live so easy for police to mop up the criminals.

Recently I heard a question asked.....Who do you call when the police are criminals? Then I read a quote by Washington the said (paraphrase) There should be a rebellion every 20 years or so.

That made me think of the context the Constitution was written in. We need law-abiding citizens to own guns because we have a right to self-defense. Whether it's from a criminal or a totalitarian government, we need to be able to overthrow the government if need be. That is what Washington was saying.

I don't think we are anywhere near the point where we need to rise up, but we need to be able to if we get some Fascist in office suspends the Constitution or tries to dissolve our rights.


We have 2,000 laws about guns. No more gun laws......Agree or disagree......

Discuss.........



Have you ever wondered why the US is the only stable, developed Western democracy whose citizens feel the need to walk around armed?

OB
 
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Bradskii

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I keep my guns and ammo for one reason..... Between now and the Rapture I have no idea what is going to happen in the US of A. What I will not allow to happen is lawlessness beating down my door and inflicting violence on me and my family. That happens... there will be some dead people. I will protect me and mine.

In this day and age, I can't even fathom anyone getting rid of their guns. Heck, more Democrats (traditionally anti-gun) have purchased firearms in the past four years than ever in our nation's history.


......

To ask OB's question in another way, why is it only in the US that people feel the need to protect themselves in that way? Where on earth do you live? Is it that dangerous? If it is, then you have some real problems that you need to solve. Your home must be like some kind of fortress.
 
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chevyontheriver

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I used to own a bunch of guns. I ended up in a situation where I could not store them so I end up having my lawyer dispose of them.

After 5 or so years of being gun-free, I became more sympathetic to the gun control crowd. I had no guns but I felt pretty safe anyway with 911 only minutes away, where I live so easy for police to mop up the criminals.

Recently I heard a question asked.....Who do you call when the police are criminals? Then I read a quote by Washington the said (paraphrase) There should be a rebellion every 20 years or so.

That made me think of the context the Constitution was written in. We need law-abiding citizens to own guns because we have a right to self-defense. Whether it's from a criminal or a totalitarian government, we need to be able to overthrow the government if need be. That is what Washington was saying.

I don't think we are anywhere near the point where we need to rise up, but we need to be able to if we get some Fascist in office suspends the Constitution or tries to dissolve our rights.


We have 2,000 laws about guns. No more gun laws......Agree or disagree......

Discuss.........
I think it is important for our government to know that the citizenry is armed and might just rebel if they overstep. I think this is the one convincing argument for me to own a gun. I could then lock it away but they would know ‘don’t tread on me’ is a thing.
 
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I think it is important for our government to know that the citizenry is armed and might just rebel if they overstep. I think this is the one convincing argument for me to own a gun. I could then lock it away but they would know ‘don’t tread on me’ is a thing.


If you seriously believe that your government is likely to drive you to the point of armed rebellion you're either living in a fantasy or the world's biggest Banana Republic.

Why is it that Americans appear to live in fear of their own government?

OB
 
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renniks

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Have you ever wondered why the US is the only stable, developed Western democracy whose citizens feel the need to walk around armed?

OB
Because we are armed, we are a stable, republic...we never were meant to be a democracy.
 
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chevyontheriver

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If you seriously believe that your government is likely to drive you to the point of armed rebellion you're either living in a fantasy or the world's biggest Banana Republic.

Why is it that Americans appear to live in fear of their own government?

OB
Thank you for thinking I am delusional.

My point was instead that a government that knows it can be overthrown by it’s citizenry will behave better than one that thinks it cannot be overthrown.
 
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Desk trauma

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Thank you for thinking I am delusional.
Thinking that the greatest military power in history can be overthrown by untrained first world civilians with small ams is delusional.
 
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chevyontheriver

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Thinking that the greatest military power in history can be overthrown by untrained first world civilians with small ams is delusional.
Thank you as well for thinking I am delusional. Any other takers?
 
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Thank you for thinking I am delusional.

I'm sorry if you find 'delusional' offensive but I don't know how else to describe it. It's not just you. Looking in from the outside there seems to be this irrational fear of the govt along with a perceived need for self defence running through a large proportion of the US population. To most Australians it comes across as completely irrational. I'm pretty sure that other non-Americans would also see it as strange.

My point was instead that a government that knows it can be overthrown by it’s citizenry will behave better than one that thinks it cannot be overthrown.

Has it occurred to you that the cure (guns) might worse than the disease (the perceived risk of govt oppression). If our government doesn't behave itself we have a process for fixing it - we call it an 'election'.

OB
 
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Bradskii

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Thank you for thinking I am delusional.

My point was instead that a government that knows it can be overthrown by it’s citizenry will behave better than one that thinks it cannot be overthrown.

This is truly a fantasy.

Notwithstanding the enormous number of guns in the US, it's a significant minority who own them. So whoever is going to 'rise up' against a government is a small proportion of that already significant minority of those who might think like you.

Less all those who have diametrically opposed political views to you and would likely take up arms against you.

Excluding all those who just own a pistol. Less all those who couldn't hit the side of a barn at ten paces with said pistol.

Excluding all those who own guns and would likely take advantage of the household gun owner being otherwise occupied.

And of course, you have systems and processes in place to organise all this. Oh, you don't?

But you'll have suitable people already picked to lead an insurection. Oh, you don't?

But surely there'd be plans in place for suitable targets and methods for bringing down the government. Oh, there aren't?

But there definitely would have been training available to get this rag tag group of gun owners up to a point where they wouldn't be massacred by very heavily armed professionally trained killers (i.e. the army). No? Nothing?

But at least there been some means of communication between like minded people that couldn't be instantly disabled by switching off the internet? Nope?

But surely some means of triggering an uprising so all insurrectionists act in coordination with each other without falling foul of the Patriot Act? Mmm. Probably not (and as far as I know, the web is being constanty monitored for trigger words and phrases as a means to keep us all safe from terrorist acts. So even discussing this within a Christian forum might well ring a bell in some government basement if terms like 'bomb' or 'insurrection' or 'bring down the government' are used - so here's a warning: you need to be careful what you say in public. Someone might take this fantasy trip seriously).

And where is the command centre for all this? The place where decisions will be made and disseminated to the rebels? There isn't one?

It's a fantasy.
 
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rturner76

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Have you ever wondered why the US is the only stable, developed Western democracy whose citizens feel the need to walk around armed?

OB
I think it has something to do with no other country having a 2nd amendment.
 
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