I am your healer

[Strong in Him]

Sorry but no you wouldn't. You can have a promise of God but if you don't believe you receive it when you pray as far as God is concerned it belongs to you but you haven't appropriated it. So what's the sign that one truly believes they receive when they pray. They will talk like they've got it and act like they've got it.

So where's that in Scripture then?
"You are healed, Bartimaeus - what's that, you still can't see? You mustn't be acting like you have it and have received it."

With all due respect I'd say you're making the mistake of many. You're making other's experience god to you.

No, I'm not.
If someone says that God always wants to heal, that healing is in the atonement or that we need to ask the elders to pray for us and we will be healed, that tells me that God is willing and waiting to heal and will heal every time we pray or apply the correct formula.
If that was so, God would heal - every time.
Born again Christians who receive forgiveness and eternal life through his blood, should also receive physical healing through his blood - IF that is what God has promised.

I am saying that I have read testimonies where Christians have prayed and fasted for healing - claimed their healing, positively confessed it, been to certain Christian healers etc etc, and not received physical healing.
EITHER neither they, nor the healers, truly have faith, they have got the "formula" wrong and God is waiting for them to all figure it out before he will heal. OR we shouldn't try to put God in a box and just trust that, healing or not, he knows what he is doing.

What I mean is whatever a human experiences you're creating your doctrine to accommodate what you see with the physical eye.

Aren't you creating a doctrine to try to explain why something hasn't happened when it "should"?
Jesus didn't say to the lepers, "you are healed. Yes, but it only LOOKS as though one of your fingers has just dropped off. Just believe by faith that you still have 5 fingers, and you will have".
He didn't teach anyone to confess or "appropriate" their healing.
I doubt very much that, had he been physically in the room, that he would have told a dying man that it only LOOKED as though he was ravaged with cancer.

Of course not. Because some people yes many people have decided they're going to be hardhearted and resist what they really should be accepting.

"Really should be accepting"?
You believe that a Christian who is ill, who has prayed for healing yet still has symptoms should accept that they ARE healed and in full health, and ignore the bodily fluids that may be pouring out of them at both ends? Or that a man with a broken leg should accept that his leg has been healed and ignore the agony as he walks on it?

 

[Aaron112]

I doubt very much that, had he been physically in the room, that he would have told a dying man that it only LOOKED as though he was ravaged with cancer.

Pulled for a footnote - did Jesus tell those who said 'she is dead', she is sleeping ? (yes, she was dead, but Jesus was sent by the Father to wake her up from the dead) Did it "look like she was dead?" - of course , yes. Someone who does not know the fullness of Jesus, might think likewise cancer is a death sentence because for so many it is.
"For lack of (experiential) knowledge, MY people perish" .... every day....

 

[Strong in Him]

Pulled for a footnote - did Jesus tell those who said 'she is dead', she is sleeping ? (yes, she was dead, but Jesus was sent by the Father to wake her up from the dead) Did it "look like she was dead?" - of course , yes.

Because she was.
Jesus didn't revive her, he raised her.

 

[Aaron112]

I doubt very much that, had he been physically in the room, that he would have told a dying man that it only LOOKED as though he was ravaged with cancer.

Because she was.
Jesus didn't revive her, he raised her.

So if and when, as has happened, He heals someone of cancer (simply) , which is very much easier than raising someone from the dead,
He could/would say "you are well", go (as appropriate) to those who verify-test (like the priests did for lepers,etc)
and let them test you.
He spoke truth always. He speaks truth always (He is Alive).
or,
would He tell those who are dying, you will die in your sins ? Instead of , rise, go home to your family ?

 

[swordsman1]

So are you suggesting people who are believing healing if ours from the Lord to receive that means as soon as you pray for them it's a guarantee you'll have the manifestation? If so you're wrong. What's taught is that you believe you receive when you pray but the manifestation may not come instantly.

No, mustering up sufficient faith to believe that healing is received (if not immediately) and therefore must be granted by God as if he is is some kind of genie is not the method by which healing is described in scripture. That is dangerous WOF teaching that cruelly places the blame on the sick person or those praying for them for lacking in faith when healing does not occur. Take a look at the healings recorded in the New Testament. I counted 36 healings recorded in the gospels and Acts, and of those only 10 mention people's faith, the majority required no faith at all. And of those 10, I counted only 1 person who expressed faith that they would be healed - the woman with the issue of blood. The others only expressed faith in Jesus' ability to heal, rather than faith that he actually would heal. That is simply the mustard seed level of faith that all believers ought to possess and is sufficient for God to perform a miracle if he so wills.

I have already provided numerous scriptures in post #109 that show where prayers for healing would not be granted no matter how much faith is exhibited.

Read James 1 on the prayer of faith....it tells one what asking in faith IS. There may be a time where you have to stand believing you've received where you don't doubt or waver.

I presume you are referring to James 1:6-7:

But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord.​

If so then you are taking the passage out of context. Go and look at the previous verse to see what is being asked for. It is not healing,

Nice try. But in the gospels the Greek word (sozo) is used when it comes to physical healing as well.

sózó: to save
Original Word: σῴζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: sózó
Phonetic Spelling: (sode'-zo)
Definition: to save
Usage: I save, heal, preserve, rescue.

And one can bring up other verses in the gospels which clearly are talking about physical healing in the usage of sozo. One example Mk 10:52 man healed of blindness. Plus other scriptures too.

The primary meaning of the word is to save. A less common usage does indeed mean to make well. But when the word has this meaning our bible translators always use the word "make well" of "heal". But in James 5:15 the majority of bible translations use the word "save" including the most respected versions such as NASB and ESV. Therefore it should be taken to mean exactly that. If you think the majority of reputable Greek scholars have got their translations wrong you should write to them informing them of their mistake.

 

[Bobber]

So where's that in Scripture then?
"You are healed, Bartimaeus - what's that, you still can't see? You mustn't be acting like you have it and have received it."

Some of Jesus healings were instant and some were not. Mk 16 : 17,18 says when hands are laid on the sick they shall recover but it stipulated for those who believe. And it says and promises that they SHALL recover. That speaks of a possible period of time where one has to believe just like Mk 11:24 indicates. Mk 8: 22,25, shows at times it can be a process as well as Luke 17:12,19, John 9:6,7, and John 4:52

No, I'm not.
If someone says that God always wants to heal, that healing is in the atonement or that we need to ask the elders to pray for us and we will be healed, that tells me that God is willing and waiting to heal and will heal every time we pray or apply the correct formula.

So why should you think that? 1 Cor 11:30 has already told us it can be the will of God to bring healing but people have hindered it. And James 1 talks about the prayer of faith which lines up with Mk 11:24 believing you receive when you pray.....and doing so you shall have it" You're warned however about wavering with the prayer of faith and told not to think if we do we'll receive anything from the Lord. Not that God doesn't want to give it to us but.....we're wavering.

If that was so, God would heal - every time.

If conditions are met it's his will to do so.

I am saying that I have read testimonies where Christians have prayed and fasted for healing - claimed their healing, positively confessed it, been to certain Christian healers etc etc, and not received physical healing.

You'd be maybe wise to stop making people's expericne as some type of authoiritiative thing which makes you dertirmine what you believe. Consider that's a big mistake. Give you an example.....one minsiter I heard of who was known to as the Spirit wills would receive a word of wisdom, or knowledge. A person came up in the prayer line for healing. He laid one on him.

The minister stopped and said, "Hold on here. I'm getting from what i believe to be the Lord a number come up in my spirit of so many thousand dollars. He asked the man what's that all about? The man said, Well he was dealing with his brothers affairs as an accountant and felt he really deserved more money....so he fudged the numbers. The minister said, "Do you have that money?" The man said yes. He then told him "You go and give him back that money and then God will heal you!" He did and was healed.

My point. You can't go yourself and what you're seeing, assessing and making judgements as to what is right or wrong on doctrine based on people's experience. Yes they may have claimed this or that....and were positive doing so.....Doesn't always matter. Some times a person needs to make an adjustment too.

 

[Bobber]

No, mustering up sufficient faith to believe that healing is received (if not immediately) and therefore must be granted by God as if he is is some kind of genie is not the method by which healing is described in scripture.

If someone comes humbly before God and appropriates their salvation and forgiveness of sins do you say what are you doing? Treating God like some kind of genie in a bottle? I'm sure you don't So why would you claim it would be this way for healing?

That is dangerous WOF teaching that cruelly places the blame on the sick person or those praying for them for lacking in faith when healing does not occur.

Or rather are your assertions really the dangerous thing? I've already shared on here the Paul the Apostle states potential reasons, (and I said potential reasons) why the sick are not healed. 1 Cor 11:30 Why did he do that? Not for the reason that people could correct themselves if need be to ensure good health continues? And not everybody needs corrected on things they've done, that's why he said many not all....but the Bible does teach other reasons....and it does speak of doubt and unbelief.

I'll emphasis again. I'm not in favor of beating anyone over the head laying charges upon them as to why they're not healed.....they have to figure that out themselves with prayerful study of God's word and hearing of God's spirit. I will however teach what God's word says. IT would not be loving and merciful to a person if I didn't. Now is there some that have been unkind to a particular individual in making personal charges towards them as to why? Sure. And such ones are judging another and they need to be careful and repent. BUT....we still must teach the word of God on the subject. Some may not like it but we must do it.

That is simply the mustard seed level of faith that all believers ought to possess and is sufficient for God to perform a miracle if he so wills.

Actually he said if you had the faith of a mustard seed you would say to this mountain a metaphor for problems....and it would obey you. In other words use the faith you have and put it into motion. Matt 17:20

I presume you are referring to James 1:6-7:

But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord.​

If so then you are taking the passage out of context. Go and look at the previous verse to see what is being asked for. It is not healing,

No come on. He starts off talking about wisdom in Jm 1 vs 5 and ends up talking about ANYTHING. vs 7 It's all in line with the prayer of faith spoken by James in a few chapters later, in chapter 5.

T

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Every human being up until now has had a prospect of dying from age and disease without exception, so, when people claim that Christ is a Christian's healer for earthly diseases and that one need only believe sufficiently to receive their healing they are speaking untruths. And the hard cold facts give irrefutable testimony against their lies.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

When you resolve the fact that God's word is more powerful than your doubts and fears and that His words are true, regardless of whether you believe them or not, you will be on the road to unshakable faith.

Psalms 103:2-3 KJV
2. Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:
3. Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;

There is really no discussion. He said this. This is not a promise; it is a statement of fact.
He forgives all your iniquities. Period. It is true whether you want to believe it or not. Just know it. Submit to it. Humble yourself to it. Resign yourself to the reality of it. It is called a benefit. Jesus paid the price for it. So do not deny it. Do not rebel against it by echoing the lies of the devil when he says, "Hath God said He forgives all your sin?" Today, it is not a matter of your trying to believe this; it is a matter of not rebelling against it. It is a matter of siding with God.

2 Corinthians 5:18-19 KJV
18. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19. To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

You have been reconciled to God. You do not have to try to believe this. It is true whether you believe it or not. It is not a promise that might happen if you "believe" it. This is a fact. Just know that it is true. You are reconciled to God. Period. That is the good news.

Don't struggle to try to talk yourself into something or strain your brain trying to force your brain to "believe" something. That is not how faith comes.

Romans 10:17 ASV
17. So belief cometh of hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

My understanding of this verse is that "Belief enters your heart by a revelation, and a revelation comes by Christ speaking a word into your heart."

Don't try to believe something in the modern concept of "Belief." Belief is nothing more than knowing a thing is true and acting in accordance with that truth that you know.

Acts 2:36 KJV
36. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God hath made that
same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
God made Jesus Lord and Christ. That is not a promise that needs some "decision" on your part. He is your Lord and Christ, regardless of what you agree with. "The same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him" Do not "try to "believe" anything as in the modern concept of belief. Don't think that belief is some kind of enhanced mental assent. That is occult. Belief is merely being aware of the truth. Just know Jesus is Lord because God made Him Lord. There is nothing you can do about this. You cannot stop it. You cannot prevent it. He is your Lord now, and He does not need your permission to be Lord, nor is He asking for it. As Lord and Christ, He has the power and authority to save anyone. Submit to His Lordship and call on Him. He said everyone who does so will be saved. He has already reconciled you. He has already taken away your sin. So finish it by acting on the thing that you know. Call on His name. Biblical faith is nothing more than acting on the thing you know. The point is to not rebel against these facts. Just submit to them. Humble yourself to the reality of it. We are all at the mercy of the overwhelming integrity of the Word of God. Let that integrity carry you. Do not struggle to hold on to something or talk yourself into something. Just rest in it. Know it. Resign yourself to it. Give up. Biblical faith is nothing more than resting on the words and integrity of the speaker. The speaker is God, and the integrity is infinite.

When the scripture says that if you "believe" you will be saved, it is not asking you to do something involving a decision. It is stating a fact.
If there is belief present within you, then you are saved. No decision is involved. If revelation came into you, then you are saved. If you are aware, then you are saved. If you know, you are saved. That awareness, knowledge, and revelation did not come to you as a result of some decision on your part. The sun rose this morning. You did not have to decide something for it to happen. You merely became aware of it.
I am not saying that decisions have no part in the operation of faith. Most of the time, decisions only pertain to what we will do after faith arrives. We even talk ourselves into thinking that we decided something and mistake that for faith. No. You were just deciding how to act on what you believed by revelation.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Psalms 103:2-3 KJV
2. Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:
3. Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;

There is really no discussion. He said this. This is not a promise; it is a statement of fact.

Those who contend that this is a promise of earthly diseases being healed inevitably for every Christians who has sufficient faith to claim their healing are not telling the truth, and the facts irrefutably prove this to be so; Christians die, all of them from all the past ages are dead now, they live in heaven, they receive heavenly healing because of Christ's sacrifice and in receipt of his promises regarding the resurrection they will on the due day receive earthly bodily healing. However the people who claim that your cancer will be healed if you have sufficient faith are lying.

 

[NBB]

Those who contend that this is a promise of earthly diseases being healed inevitably for every Christians who has sufficient faith to claim their healing are not telling the truth, and the facts irrefutably prove this to be so; Christians die, all of them from all the past ages are dead now, they live in heaven, they receive heavenly healing because of Christ's sacrifice and in receipt of his promises regarding the resurrection they will on the due day receive earthly bodily healing. However the people who claim that your cancer will be healed if you have sufficient faith are lying.

He says that if you do his commandments he will listen your petitions, and call you friend.
He says you should ask for the Holy spirit and he will give.
He says if you have faith you could move a mountain, i don't think God is interested in moving actual mountains however..

 

[Strong in Him]

Some of Jesus healings were instant and some were not. Mk 16 : 17,18 says when hands are laid on the sick they shall recover but it stipulated for those who believe. And it says and promises that they SHALL recover.

And I'm telling you that some don't.
So - either Scripture is wrong, God doesn't do what he, apparently, said he would do or that Scripture was written to the Apostles who would be performing signs and wonders to prove who Jesus said he was and that the kingdom had arrived. And it was never intended that we should apply it today.

So why should you think that? 1 Cor 11:30 has already told us it can be the will of God to bring healing but people have hindered it.

It doesn't.
I've already said that, if you read that in context, it seems clear to me that Paul is talking about those who don't value the body - fellowship - of Christ and were eating bread and drinking the wine in a selfish manner.
It doesn't say "God wants to heal but people won't let him."

You're warned however about wavering with the prayer of faith and told not to think if we do we'll receive anything from the Lord. Not that God doesn't want to give it to us but.....we're wavering.

No, James says "if any of you lacks wisdom he should ask God, but when you pray, do not doubt" James 1:5-6.
He doesn't say that about prayer for healing.

I used to think that praying in faith meant saying, "you do want to heal me Lord, I believe it and that you will do it right now."
But as someone pointed out, that's not faith; that's presumption.

If conditions are met it's his will to do so.

There are no conditions.
We deserve nothing from God, he doesn't have to give us anything, we can't bargain with him to get what we want and he doesn't demand that we meet certain conditions before we can be saved, healed, blessed or anything else.
Jesus sometimes healed in response to faith, he once healed after someone said, "IF you can ...." and often he didn't ask at all about people's faith, he just healed.

You'd be maybe wise to stop making people's expericne as some type of authoiritiative thing which makes you dertirmine what you believe.

I'm not.
You seem to be saying that anyone who prays in faith WILL be healed - like it's guaranteed, a cast iron promise of God's.
If that were the case, if God had promised that, then all believers who got sick, prayed and trusted God would be healed. We believe that when we accept Jesus and confess his we have eternal life; if healing is in the atonement too and guaranteed, we'd all receive it.
I've been asking you that, if this is your doctrine, how do you account for the fact that it doesn't always happen the way people want at the time that they want?

This doesn't determine what I believe - I believe we should let God be God. He is able to heal instantly and miraculously, he has the right to say "wait", he can use doctors and nurses to bring healing, using the skill that he gave them.

Give you an example.....one minsiter I heard of who was known to as the Spirit wills would receive a word of wisdom, or knowledge. A person came up in the prayer line for healing. He laid one on him.

The minister stopped and said, "Hold on here. I'm getting from what i believe to be the Lord a number come up in my spirit of so many thousand dollars. He asked the man what's that all about? The man said, Well he was dealing with his brothers affairs as an accountant and felt he really deserved more money....so he fudged the numbers. The minister said, "Do you have that money?" The man said yes. He then told him "You go and give him back that money and then God will heal you!" He did and was healed.

Nothing wrong with that.
Jesus told the paralysed man his sins were forgiven, before he said "take your mat and go home". Sickness is sometimes linked to sin - the Lord gives a word of knowledge and then he heals; no problem.
The problem would be if people started assuming that because that happened once, it would happen every time and God could heal in no other way.

My point. You can't go yourself and what you're seeing, assessing and making judgements as to what is right or wrong on doctrine based on people's experience.

If the doctrine was correct, people wouldn't be having experiences to the contrary.
It wouldn't happen - God isn't inconsistent, nor is he a liar.
If you're going to talk to people about this, sooner or later someone is going to say, "well X was/is a fantastic Christian, a woman of prayer and faith who helped many. She prayed/has prayed many times in faith, for herself and not been healed; why not, if what you say is correct?" And you need to come up with a better answer than, "if the conditions are met, she will be". Some Christians are even unkind enough to suggest that it's the sick person's fault.

I'm not saying this is true of you, but years ago, when I was debating this with "Word of faith" folk, someone actually said to me, "God will not heal you because you don't believe." (Meaning, you don't believe in this doctrine.)
Well guess what? I still don't, and God did.
My healing was miraculous, instant and I thank God that it didn't happen as a result of going to a healing service, seeing a certain healer, repeating a doctrine or anything else that I, or any others, did, which could lead us to believe that we were involved in it in some way. It was from God and it was all God.

 

[swordsman1]

If someone comes humbly before God and appropriates their salvation and forgiveness of sins do you say what are you doing? Treating God like some kind of genie in a bottle? I'm sure you don't So why would you claim it would be this way for healing?

You are comparing apples to oranges. Saving faith is not the same as the faith that God can heal as a result of prayer. Asking for forgiveness is not the same as asking for prosperity or good health. Many Christians doubt their salvation, but that doesn't mean they are no longer saved.

No, the Word of Faith movement treats God as a genie because they say God is compelled to grant their wishes whether that be prosperity, good health, or whatever. So long as they make a positive confession, and muster up sufficient faith to believe that it will happen without doubting, then God is obliged to grant their request.

Or rather are your assertions really the dangerous thing? I've already shared on here the Paul the Apostle states potential reasons, (and I said potential reasons) why the sick are not healed. 1 Cor 11:30 Why did he do that? Not for the reason that people could correct themselves if need be to ensure good health continues? And not everybody needs corrected on things they've done, that's why he said many not all....but the Bible does teach other reasons....and it does speak of doubt and unbelief.

I'll emphasis again. I'm not in favor of beating anyone over the head laying charges upon them as to why they're not healed.....they have to figure that out themselves with prayerful study of God's word and hearing of God's spirit. I will however teach what God's word says. IT would not be loving and merciful to a person if I didn't. Now is there some that have been unkind to a particular individual in making personal charges towards them as to why? Sure. And such ones are judging another and they need to be careful and repent. BUT....we still must teach the word of God on the subject. Some may not like it but we must do it.

Scripture gives many other reasons for God not healing, not least of which is that it simply may not be his will (1 John 5:14). Failing to muster up sufficient faith to believe it must happen is not one of them. Of the many reasons only 1 may be may be our own fault (unconfessed sin), the rest are all God's sovereign will to allow us to suffer and invariably it is for our ultimate benefit.

Actually he said if you had the faith of a mustard seed you would say to this mountain a metaphor for problems....and it would obey you. In other words use the faith you have and put it into motion. Matt 17:20

And the amount of faith required for God to move a mountain, or resolve any of our problems, is the size of a mustard seed. ie very little, just enough to say a prayer believing that God is able to do it. Jesus told the disciples that all they had to do to heal the demon possessed boy was to say a simple prayer. The fact that so many of our prayers for healing are not granted cannot therefore be due to a lack of faith. There are other reasons.

No come on. He starts off talking about wisdom in Jm 1 vs 5 and ends up talking about ANYTHING. vs 7 It's all in line with the prayer of faith spoken by James in a few chapters later, in chapter 5.

Verse 7 is referring to the same person asking for wisdom in v5. "That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord." He does not believe in God's promise of wisdom when asking, so he shouldn't expect to receive any.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Those who contend that this is a promise of earthly diseases being healed inevitably for every Christians who has sufficient faith to claim their healing are not telling the truth, and the facts irrefutably prove this to be so; Christians die, all of them from all the past ages are dead now, they live in heaven, they receive heavenly healing because of Christ's sacrifice and in receipt of his promises regarding the resurrection they will on the due day receive earthly bodily healing. However the people who claim that your cancer will be healed if you have sufficient faith are lying.

People do not "claim" this; the scriptures state it as a fact. "By His stripes, we were healed." That is a past-tense statement of fact. Let God be true and every man a liar. If we were healed, then I am healed.

Are people who say he forgives "all our inequities" lying, too? Same chapter. Same verse. These are called "benefits. One is no more true than the other. We cannot doubt one without doubting both. We cannot hold that one is true without holding both are true. And they are. These are not "promises" they are statements of fact.

Do we want to please God? Then we have no choice but to know that God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. It matters more to hold fast to the confession of our faith. It is even more important than actually receiving anything. Like those in Heb 11, you may never receive (for reasons listed in the scripture), but you are pleasing God in the believing.

Jesus told us to pray this way: "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven." Any sickness in heaven? In the same prayer, He said to forgive our debtors as we are forgiven. Is that false too? We are also told to pray, "give us this day our daily bread." Is that off in the future also? We are told to pray to be "delivered from evil." Is that off in the future? No.

Healed in heaven? Nobody will need healing in heaven. We will have perfect bodies that need no healing. Healing is for today. Not a single body entering heaven will require healing. Why make such a statement when there would be no need in heaven?

Paul wrote that those who fail to discern the Lord's body (the bread in communion) would be sick, weak, and die young. I would hate to be the person who encouraged others to not discern the Lord's body. The body was given so that we would not be sick, weak, and die young. That would be likened to what he wrote in Hebrews when they trod the blood underfoot when they rebelled against it. Those who refute the body of the Lord are likewise casting His body underfoot as if it were meaningless. He suffered for us so we could have healed bodies.. How dare we cast it down as if it were worthless. Throw the bread/body down and stamp on it. Lord, help those who do this.

And having "sufficient" faith is a mistaken notion. The word of God is undeniable. It generates faith in itself. People do not have to try to believe anything. You just agree with the scripture and take action according to your ability. The same mustard seed faith that makes a person whole also tosses mountains into the sea. That is all it takes. It has nothing to do with piling faith into yourself; it has to do with the overwhelming integrity of His Word and the irresistible power therein.

Isaiah 55:11 KJV
11. So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Do Christians die?
There is the resignation of faith, which means we just submit ourselves to the Word of God and thank Him for what He has said. Thy Word is truth! With a long life, He will satisfy me. That is scripture, too. Psalms 91:16 KJV

Then there is the resignation of doubt, which is when we just accept every failure, fault, weakness, tragedy, plague, catastrophe, death, and suffering as if it were an inevitable event in our lives. We all die because everyone dies? Everyone gets sick? Just throw down all hope and resign to it? Just die? We have the verse on our wall: "We will not die but live, and declare the works of the Lord." I think I will resign myself to that truth and just not die. We get 70 years. Being a strong 69, I expect more than 70. Thank you, Lord!

Yes, it is "inevitable" that even Christians die. But I like what Paul said:

1 Corinthians 15:26 KJV
26. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

And yes, even that will be destroyed. But logically, if death is the last, then all other enemies have been destroyed. Including sickness and disease.. the power of which has been destroyed.
I will stand on that. To the praise and honor of His name!

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

"By His stripes, we were healed." That is a past-tense statement of fact.

A past tense written around 700 years before Christ. What makes you think it applies to somebody 3,000 years later? The "we" addressed were Israelites, all of them long since dead as far as earthly life is concerned, none of them made immortal or healed of all their diseases. They all died awaiting the coming of Christ. They received none of the promises which were yes and amen in Christ. They had types and shadows, will you invite Christians to return to types and shadows? To look for their hope in this world in an earthly body 'healed' of its frailties and diseases? It's a pipe dream.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Good grief you might want to dial that way back and reconsider your position. Paul the Apostle even taught there are reasons WHY a person might be weak and sickly and yes even to have died.

For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. 31For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. 32But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. 1 Cor 11:30

Now he didn't say ALL for this reason......but he did say MANY. And how many are many? I don't know. But it is many. The Bible does teach other reasons too besides what Paul stated.

But NO we don't take whatever Bible verses and tell one on an individual basis why they weren't specifically healed HOWEVER WE MUST teach what the Bible says are potential reasons. It's up to them to seek God and his wisdom as to why healing didn't manifest the them personally.

So really I'd say it's rather nasty to not share what God says about the matter. If they're not getting their manifestation of healing I'd say God wants them to have such. But if they have to make adjustments and they're not told what potentially they could be how can that be love?

Nowhere in the New Testament are there any promises of a sick person being healed and not being healed. All the examples I have seen are people ministered to and healed instantly. No one was told to accept a healing by faith and then not been healed. So my position of a sick person being told they are healed while still sick is that they are being told a lie. We should not be telling a person they are healed unless they are genuinely and obviously healed.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

We should not be telling a person they are healed unless they are genuinely and obviously healed.

Amen.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

A past tense written around 700 years before Christ. What makes you think it applies to somebody 3,000 years later? The "we" addressed were Israelites, all of them long since dead as far as earthly life is concerned, none of them made immortal or healed of all their diseases. They all died awaiting the coming of Christ. They received none of the promises which were yes and amen in Christ. They had types and shadows, will you invite Christians to return to types and shadows? To look for their hope in this world in an earthly body 'healed' of its frailties and diseases? It's a pipe dream.

Actually, this was written by Peter some 30 years after the event.

1 Peter 2:24 KJV
24. Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins,
should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.


The original quote was by Isaiah, as you said, 700 years before. It reads present tense because Isaiah is standing, in vision, at the foot of the cross, pointing to Jesus, and stating what He sees. Note the tense here:

Isaiah 53:5 KJV
5. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement
of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

This brings home the truth of it. The tense changes.
Peter was looking back, past tense, at something that had already occurred.
Isaiah was looking at the cross with our wounded savior, present tense.

So, indeed, we WERE healed by His stripes. If we were, then we are.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Actually, this was written by Peter some 30 years after the event.

It's written by Isaiah, and quoted by Peter

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. ​

Isaiah 53:5 KJV

 

[SavedByGrace3]

It's written by Isaiah, and quoted by Peter

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. ​

Isaiah 53:5 KJV

Yes... that is what I said.
The tense changes according to who said it.
Isaiah - present tense "ARE"
Peter - past tense -"WERE"
The difference is important and makes the point that healing is in the atonement and an accomplished fact, just like salvation by the blood of Jesus.