I am your healer

[Bobber]

The primary meaning of the word is to save. A less common usage does indeed mean to make well. But when the word has this meaning our bible translators always use the word "make well" of "heal". But in James 5:15 the majority of bible translations use the word "save" including the most respected versions such as NASB and ESV. Therefore it should be taken to mean exactly that. If you think the majority of reputable Greek scholars have got their translations wrong you should write to them informing them of their mistake.

Doesn't matter what you're saying the Greek word for salvation and healing ARE the same! And do I trust all Greek scholars which translate the Bible that they don't have a bias? Nope sorry I don't . They can be just as bias as anyone else can be.

I also heard a story of one Bible translation being done with a team of Hebrew scholars. I can't recall which translation. But they had a panel of Hebrew language scholars rendering out Is 53: 4. One scholar wanted the word "sickness" being a part to the verse feeling it was a closer rendering. Other's objected and said in the meeting if we do that we're giving into the healing believing folks. He resigned from the panel immediately citing too much of a personal bias of others wanting it to be their non-healing way. When the translation came out they had in the margin footnotes it can also mean sickness.

So here's how many Bible translators render James 5:14 and seeing the context was is any sick among you James 5:14 I believe they got it right when they got to 15.

And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven. NIV

Such a prayer offered in faith will heal the sick, and the Lord will make you well. NLT

And the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick. The Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. Berean Standard Bible

....and the prayer of faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, New American Standard

"....and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, NASB 1995

"...and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, NASB 1977

And the prayer of faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up; Amplified Bible

 

[Bobber]

I wasn't asking for evidence of healing, but for evidence for the comment that "miracles produce more faith than if they didn't happen."

I did for I showed you this. When Paul healed Publius in Acts 28 it got everybody else attention and caused a draw of people to come and hear from Paul.

"...the rest of those on the island who had diseases also came and were healed. . Acts 28: 8

Let me just be clear, I am not questioning that God heals today. He does; he has done it for me.
I am questioning the position that you can take a verse about healing and just randomly apply it to anyone; the implication that you only have to say one prayer, and God will heal - always and every time.

I don't randomly believe it can apply to anyone. I actually believe those outside of the Lord don't have a covenant right to be healed. Psalm 91 calls out blessings that belong to those who are in the secret place of the Most High. One of those blessings is "....neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling."

God in his sovereignty may heal one outside of Christ but generally speaking he doesn't. Also Paul stated in 1 Cor 11:30 reasons why healing won't manifested. Plus also there is what James 1 states one must BE in faith.....which would mean believing one is to receive which connects to a few chapters later in chapter 5. I will say though it is God's perfect will of God for healing to manifest to all of his children if they'll make it possible .

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Yes... that is what I said.
The tense changes according to who said it.
Isaiah - present tense "ARE"
Peter - past tense -"WERE"
The difference is important and makes the point that healing is in the atonement and an accomplished fact, just like salvation by the blood of Jesus.

Well, no, it makes an opposite point really, Isaiah spoke of present healing, Peter of past healing; Jesus promised future healing in the resurrection. All spoke of the same person, Christ, who is the healer of the nations.

 

[Guojing]

Doesn't matter what you're saying the Greek word for salvation and healing ARE the same! And do I trust all Greek scholars which translate the Bible that they don't have a bias? Nope sorry I don't . They can be just as bias as anyone else can be.

Greek doesn't work like that. Just because a Greek word can have multiple meanings, it does not allow you to conclude that all of them can be equally valid.

Its like Sozo can mean salvation from sins or healing of your diseases in English, depending on the context.

It does not mean salvation from sins and healing of your diseases mean the same thing.

 

[Guojing]

I believe that the promises of the Bible are true, too.
But if God HAD promised physical healing, every time, we would receive it; and it would be non Christians - those without any faith at all - who remained ill.
Yet, David Watson died from cancer and Joni Eareckson-Tada remains in a wheelchair - to name but two. Jennifer Rees-Larcombe WAS healed, miraculously, but not when she, her husband and all their friends were praying for it. I was healed, but, again, not when people were praying, I was going to healing services etc.

If you look at the Bible, miracles do not always produce, or lead to, faith in God.

Bill Johnson's wife recently passed away from cancer, and guess what was the scripture that Bill used to comfort himself immediately after that?

Philippians 4:6-7, the standard Pauline teaching =)

 

[Guojing]

Well, no, it makes an opposite point really, Isaiah spoke of present healing, Peter of past healing; Jesus promised future healing in the resurrection. All spoke of the same person, Christ, who is the healer of the nations.

Well said, salvation for Israel is tied to the promised kingdom of God on Earth, is something they expect in the future (Hebrews 8:8-12, Acts 3:19-21, 1 Peter 1:9).

So Psalms 103, especially the lovely verses from 1-5, specifically tells you what they expect to receive when that kingdom begins (vs 19), which in vs 3, includes both forgiveness of their sins, and physical healing from their diseases.

It is inline with Isaiah 33:24 said as a cross reference of life under that kingdom

And the inhabitant shall not say, I am sick: the people that dwell therein shall be forgiven their iniquity.

 

[Guojing]

Every human being up until now has had a prospect of dying from age and disease without exception, so, when people claim that Christ is a Christian's healer for earthly diseases and that one need only believe sufficiently to receive their healing they are speaking untruths. And the hard cold facts give irrefutable testimony against their lies.

They don't want to follow Paul's teaching in 2 Corinthians 4:16-18 on what we should put our hope in

16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;

18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

 

[Guojing]

I don't randomly believe it can apply to anyone. I actually believe those outside of the Lord don't have a covenant right to be healed. Psalm 91 calls out blessings that belong to those who are in the secret place of the Most High. One of those blessings is "....neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling."

Psalms 91 is a promise of protection that is

1. To the nation of Israel.
2. During the Great Tribulation when the Anti-christ will be persecuting them.

Taking that promise and applying to the Body of Christ today is like someone taking Genesis 15:5 and Matthew 19:28 and claiming it for himself.

Some people will call that "stealing"

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Well, no, it makes an opposite point really, Isaiah spoke of present healing, Peter of past healing; Jesus promised future healing in the resurrection. All spoke of the same person, Christ, who is the healer of the nations.

So... by that logic, salvation was good back in the early part of the first century but is no more. Salvation, like healing, has been done away? In fact, healing was only available to the people of Isaiah's day, but not ours.? The OT was a better convent than the NT?
I think that is a stretch. There are so many contradictions and negative conclusions to that interpretation it would take a dozen posts just to itemize the errors. That is scary.

Time is too short.

 

[Guojing]

Those who contend that this is a promise of earthly diseases being healed inevitably for every Christians who has sufficient faith to claim their healing are not telling the truth, and the facts irrefutably prove this to be so; Christians die, all of them from all the past ages are dead now, they live in heaven, they receive heavenly healing because of Christ's sacrifice and in receipt of his promises regarding the resurrection they will on the due day receive earthly bodily healing. However the people who claim that your cancer will be healed if you have sufficient faith are lying.

Word of Faith preachers love to use Psalms 103 to justify their doctrine that, "healing of physical diseases comes together with forgiveness of sins".

So if you believe that your sins are forgiven by the cross, healing is also part of that atonement.

They do not teach their congregation to rightly divide the word of truth, that Psalms 103 is a promise

1. To the nation of Israel.
2. During the 1000 year millennial kingdom.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

That is scary.

Time is too short.

It is very scary, how on earth did you dream it up?
I am most thankful that I've never thought up such a bizarre theory.

 

[swordsman1]

Doesn't matter what you're saying the Greek word for salvation and healing ARE the same! And do I trust all Greek scholars which translate the Bible that they don't have a bias? Nope sorry I don't . They can be just as bias as anyone else can be.

I also heard a story of one Bible translation being done with a team of Hebrew scholars. I can't recall which translation. But they had a panel of Hebrew language scholars rendering out Is 53: 4. One scholar wanted the word "sickness" being a part to the verse feeling it was a closer rendering. Other's objected and said in the meeting if we do that we're giving into the healing believing folks. He resigned from the panel immediately citing too much of a personal bias of others wanting it to be their non-healing way. When the translation came out they had in the margin footnotes it can also mean sickness.

So here's how many Bible translators render James 5:14 and seeing the context was is any sick among you James 5:14 I believe they got it right when they got to 15.

And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven. NIV

Such a prayer offered in faith will heal the sick, and the Lord will make you well. NLT

And the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick. The Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. Berean Standard Bible

....and the prayer of faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, New American Standard

"....and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, NASB 1995

"...and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, NASB 1977

And the prayer of faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up; Amplified Bible

You forgot to also include those bastions of translation accuracy, "The Message" and "The Voice" which also have it as "heal".

Like I said the majority of reputable bible translations render it as "saved". Your conspiracy theory that those Greek scholars have deliberately mistranslated it due to their theological bias against the WoF movement is laughable. Even the WoF's favourite, the King James has it as "saved". Was that theological bias too?

 

[Bobber]

Its like Sozo can mean salvation from sins or healing of your diseases in English, depending on the context.

The context of James 5:14,15 was talking about being healed of diseases. And then it went of to say AND...AND....If he has committed sins they shall be forgiven him. Always a due blessing as found in the gospels too.....healing and forgiveness. Mk 2:1,12 plus other verses too.

 

[Guojing]

The context of James 5:14,15 was talking about being healed of diseases. And then it went of to say AND...AND....If he has committed sins they shall be forgiven him. Always a due blessing as found in the gospels too.....healing and forgiveness. Mk 2:1,12 plus other verses too.

The KJV of that verse says save the sick, not heal the sick.

 

[Bobber]

Psalms 91 is a promise of protection that is

1. To the nation of Israel.

So what will you say next? Psalm 23 is for the nation of Israel and only Israel? Sorry but it seems you're merely trying to wrestle way blessings that God has for all of his children. I see no justification for claiming a wonderful Psalm like 91 isn't provided to bring comfort and truth to all generations.

1. During the Great Tribulation when the Anti-christ will be persecuting them.

You're contending Psalm 91 belongs only to the Anti-Christ time? No offence but I'd have to say that's merely an over active imagination trying to make the Bible says what you want it to say.

 

[Bobber]

The KJV of that verse says save the sick, not heal the sick.

So what? The word save in the Greek MEANS heal as well.

Strong's Concordance
sózó: to save
Original Word: σῴζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: sózó
Phonetic Spelling: (sode'-zo)
Definition: to save
Usage: I save, heal, preserve, rescue.

Also read other translations,

And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven. NIV

Such a prayer offered in faith will heal the sick, and the Lord will make you well. NLT

And the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick. The Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. Berean Standard Bible

....and the prayer of faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, New American Standard

"....and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, NASB 1995

"...and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, NASB 1977

And the prayer of faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up; Amplified Bible

 

[Guojing]

So what will you say next? Psalm 23 is for the nation of Israel and only Israel? Sorry but it seems you're merely trying to wrestle way blessings that God has for all of his children. I see no justification for claiming a wonderful Psalm like 91 isn't provided to bring comfort and truth to all generations.

You're contending Psalm 91 belongs only to the Anti-Christ time? No offence but I'd have to say that's merely an over active imagination trying to make the Bible says what you want it to say.

Yes, Psalms 23, like 91 is about Israel during the Tribulation as well.

We can learn from the faith that they will have to show during those terrible years, all scripture is FOR our learning.

What if you meet a Christian who insist that Genesis 15:5 and Matthew 19:28 is for him to claim today?

 

[Guojing]

So what? The word save in the Greek MEANS heal as well.

I already said Greek doesn't work like that.

Just because a Greek word can have multiple meanings, it does not allow you to conclude that all of them can be equally valid. You have to look at the context of the surrounding words of that particular verse.

You have been mislead about Greek usage from your WOF pastor.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

It is very scary, how on earth did you dream it up?
I am most thankful that I've never thought up such a bizarre theory.

This bizarre theory is in the scripture and is held as true by millions of people. Even if it were not, I would stand on the scripture.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

2 Timothy 2:23-26 KJV
23. But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
24. And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25. In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26. And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.