I am your healer

[lanceleo]

I don't think that being a Christian shields anyone from physical harm or sickness. I stay away from doctors and medicine because both are poison and not because I think that being a Christian makes me invincible from physical death. This is an interesting thread!

Interesting indeed. Why do you think doctors are poison? Why did Jesus accept Luke, the doctor (aka poison according to you), as his disciple? If being a doctor is poison why did not Jesus talk Luke out of it?

 

[YorkieGal]

Interesting indeed. Why do you think doctors are poison? Why did Jesus accept Luke, the doctor (aka poison according to you), as his disciple? If being a doctor is poison why did not Jesus talk Luke out of it?

For clarification: my views re: doctors and medicine reflect my views in our times only.

 

[lanceleo]

For clarification: my views re: doctors and medicine reflect my views in our times only.

Okay but I don't think it applies to every doctor.

 

[Bobber]

I believe that the promises of the Bible are true, too.
But if God HAD promised physical healing, every time, we would receive it;

Sorry but no you wouldn't. You can have a promise of God but if you don't believe you receive it when you pray as far as God is concerned it belongs to you but you haven't appropriated it. So what's the sign that one truly believes they receive when they pray. They will talk like they've got it and act like they've got it.

Yet, David Watson died from cancer and Joni Eareckson-Tada remains in a wheelchair - to name but two. Jennifer Rees-Larcombe WAS healed, miraculously, but not when she, her husband and all their friends were praying for it.

With all due respect I'd say you're making the mistake of many. You're making other's experience god to you. What I mean is whatever a human experiences you're creating your doctrine to accommodate what you see with the physical eye. It's like Peter walking on the water but taking his eyes off of Jesus or the word and looking at natural realm things.

If you look at the Bible, miracles do not always produce, or lead to, faith in God.

Of course not. Because some people yes many people have decided they're going to be hardhearted and resist what they really should be accepting. That however will make their judgment more intense for God has demonstrated things to them whereby he'll tell them they are without excuse. See Matt 11:21

 

[Bobber]

Thanks, can you repost the verse? When I click it, it shows Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise

Sure. It's really Eph 6:1-3

Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. 2Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise 3That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth. Eph 6:1-3

 

[YorkieGal]

Okay but I don't think it applies to every doctor.

There is no onus for you to agree with me!

 

[Aaron112]

Why did Jesus accept Luke

The Father Chose Luke, and Jesus Trained Luke.

Do you realize Luke (actually Jesus and all of Jesus followers) would have nothing to do with pharmakeia ?

 

[YorkieGal]

Sure. It's really Eph 6:1-3

Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. 2Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise 3That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth. Eph 6:1-3

Thank you!!

 

[Bobber]

Evidence?
How many Pharisees believed after they saw Lazarus walking out of the tomb?
What about Pharaoh, after the first plague in Egypt?

I'd say this should be considered evidence.

And it happened that the father of Publius lay sick of a fever and dysentery. Paul went in to him and prayed, and he laid his hands on him and healed him. 9So when this was done, the rest of those on the island who had diseases also came and were healed. 10They also honored us in many ways; and when we departed, they provided such things as were necessary. Acts 28: 8

A large crowd followed Him because they saw the signs He was performing on the sick. John 6:2

Other verses too.

 

[lanceleo]

Do you realize Luke (actually Jesus and all of Jesus followers) would have nothing to do with pharmakeia ?

Interesting. Can you provide a source?

 

[Aaron112]

Interesting. Can you provide a source?

The Bible, don'y you know ?
Look up pharmakeia.

 

[lanceleo]

The Bible, don'y you know ?
Look up pharmakeia.

Jesus recognized that sick people need doctors. He did not condemn using doctors and 'earthly remedies' or did he?

 

[Fervent]

The Bible, don'y you know ?
Look up pharmakeia.

It's a bit misleading, because of how health and such was thought of then is completely different from today. Pharmakeia would be more like witch doctors than a modern doctor, the use of balms and physical remedies was perfectly acceptable. Even Paul recommended the medicinal use of wine for Timothy's ailment.

 

[Bobber]

What is nasty, is people being led to believe that there is something wrong with them if they get sick and are not healed. This erroneous teaching has caused more harm, depression, and hardship than any other false teaching. It is totally unkind and the height of nastiness to pray for a sick person and nothing happens, to blame the sick person of having sin in their life, or not having enough faith to be healed. In my opinion, people who teach that stuff are not saved and are on the read to hell.

Good grief you might want to dial that way back and reconsider your position. Paul the Apostle even taught there are reasons WHY a person might be weak and sickly and yes even to have died.

For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. 31For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. 32But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. 1 Cor 11:30

Now he didn't say ALL for this reason......but he did say MANY. And how many are many? I don't know. But it is many. The Bible does teach other reasons too besides what Paul stated.

But NO we don't take whatever Bible verses and tell one on an individual basis why they weren't specifically healed HOWEVER WE MUST teach what the Bible says are potential reasons. It's up to them to seek God and his wisdom as to why healing didn't manifest the them personally.

So really I'd say it's rather nasty to not share what God says about the matter. If they're not getting their manifestation of healing I'd say God wants them to have such. But if they have to make adjustments and they're not told what potentially they could be how can that be love?

 

[lanceleo]

Pharmakeia would be more like witch doctors than a modern doctor,

Exactly.

 

[Bobber]

The real healing happens to an unconverted person, and as a result, his family, friends, and many in his community turn to Christ. That is the real purpose of the healing sign.

You're suggesting just to unconverted persons. You don't find that in the book of Acts.

"Now there was at Joppa a certain disciple named Tabitha, which by interpretation is called Dorcas: this woman was full of good works and almsdeeds which she did. 37And it came to pass in those days, that she was sick, and died: whom when they had washed, they laid her in an upper chamber. 38And forasmuch as Lydda was nigh to Joppa, and the disciples had heard that Peter was there, they sent unto him two men, desiring him that he would not delay to come to them.

39Then Peter arose and went with them. When he was come, they brought him into the upper chamber: and all the widows stood by him weeping, and shewing the coats and garments which Dorcas made, while she was with them. 40But Peter put them all forth, and kneeled down, and prayed; and turning him to the body said, Tabitha, arise. And she opened her eyes: and when she saw Peter, she sat up. 41And he gave her his hand, and lifted her up, and when he had called the saints and widows, presented her alive. 42And it was known throughout all Joppa; and many believed in the Lord." Acts 9: 36,42

 

[Aaron112]

It's a bit misleading, because of how health and such was thought of then is completely different from today. Pharmakeia would be more like witch doctors than a modern doctor, the use of balms and physical remedies was perfectly acceptable. Even Paul recommended the medicinal use of wine for Timothy's ailment.

Misleading is all the vast power and money and educational system controlled today by bigfarma....

 

[Aaron112]

It's up to them to seek God and his wisdom as to why healing didn't manifest the them personally.

And if they do , and what is revealed to them is directly and completely different than society and doctors and churches say ? (as happens to be the case most often) And then , God Willing, they are healed ..... as God heals both the righteous and the unrighteous, as He Pleases.

 

[Aaron112]

Evidence?
How many Pharisees believed after they saw Lazarus walking out of the tomb?

How many religious leaders and doctors and so on today believe when they see someone raised from the dead and/ or many healed ?
It seems just like the ones who sought to kill Lazarus, as they could not bear that Lazarus was raised from the dead, the same overwhelming .............. today ?

 

[Strong in Him]

I'd say this should be considered evidence.

And it happened that the father of Publius lay sick of a fever and dysentery. Paul went in to him and prayed, and he laid his hands on him and healed him. 9So when this was done, the rest of those on the island who had diseases also came and were healed. 10They also honored us in many ways; and when we departed, they provided such things as were necessary. Acts 28: 8

I wasn't asking for evidence of healing, but for evidence for the comment that "miracles produce more faith than if they didn't happen."
That's why I gave the examples of Pharoah and the Pharisees. The latter, in particular, saw a dead person walking out of a tomb - how many came to faith after that?

Let me just be clear, I am not questioning that God heals today. He does; he has done it for me.
I am questioning the position that you can take a verse about healing and just randomly apply it to anyone; the implication that you only have to say one prayer, and God will heal - always and every time.