How would you greet a bishop?

[dzheremi]

It's kinda odd that titles are up for debate among people who dislike them or think they mean things they don't mean (who feel then free to disrespect the people who hold them in the most foul ways, e.g., farting in their face and all this nonsense), while at the same time in Western societies we are being told that if a man wants to be a woman, you need to address him as her or else it's a 'hate crime' or something. Can societies please just finalize this hierarchy of who gets respect and who doesn't so that we all know where we stand? And if it's as simple as "Well, I disagree with what other people do", okay. Take a number. Your concern will be answered in the order in which it was received.

In a world where a grown man can be a woman, or a lizard, or a six year old girl or whatever and nobody has the the right to say 'boo' about it, how is it that hierarchical titles receive such scorn? Are these anti-respect people beset by legions of corrupt bishops in their everyday lives such that it is reasonable that they lash out like sullen children? You're more likely to meet a judge than a bishop if you're just out in the world, yet I'd wager dollars to donuts that when you do, you'll address him as "Your Honor". The secular court gets more respect than the ecclesiastical Body and those who oversee it. Apparently even from those who call themselves Christians. How opposed this is to the earliest witnesses we have of first-second century ecclesiology, such as St. Ignatius and St. Polycarp. Ugh. Such people would probably spit on them too, even as they claim to revere the scriptures and all this.

 

[Not David]

I revere ONLY Christ Jesus.

Won't you say "hi" at least?

 

[Not David]

I think affording someone the courtesy of a title recognises their role in their own community of faith; it doesn't necessarily imply that one accepts the validity of that community or all of its beliefs or practices.

To me, it's common courtesy to use someone's title, but physical gestures of reverence (genuflection or hand kissing etc) aren't something I normally do for anyone, and I'd have to feel I had a reason to do that which went beyond common courtesy. That does feel like it's entered the "I'm identifying with and adopting the practices of this community" space.

As an aside, when it comes to my own title I find it most useful when dealing with people outside the church, who might need a clue as to who I am or the role I play, when interacting with them on behalf of the church. So it's helpful in an email signature, less so in personal interaction. I'd never insist that someone call me by the title, but the kind of let-me-make-a-point-of-not-acknowledging-you game is just rude.

Which title do people usually address you?

 

[Not David]

It's kinda odd that titles are up for debate among people who dislike them or think they mean things they don't mean (who feel then free to disrespect the people who hold them in the most foul ways, e.g., farting in their face and all this nonsense), while at the same time in Western societies we are being told that if a man wants to be a woman, you need to address him as her or else it's a 'hate crime' or something. Can societies please just finalize this hierarchy of who gets respect and who doesn't so that we all know where we stand? And if it's as simple as "Well, I disagree with what other people do", okay. Take a number. Your concern will be answered in the order in which it was received.

In a world where a grown man can be a woman, or a lizard, or a six year old girl or whatever and nobody has the the right to say 'boo' about it, how is it that hierarchical titles receive such scorn? Are these anti-respect people beset by legions of corrupt bishops in their everyday lives such that it is reasonable that they lash out like sullen children? You're more likely to meet a judge than a bishop if you're just out in the world, yet I'd wager dollars to donuts that when you do, you'll address him as "Your Honor". The secular court gets more respect than the ecclesiastical Body and those who oversee it. Apparently even from those who call themselves Christians. How opposed this is to the earliest witnesses we have of first-second century ecclesiology, such as St. Ignatius and St. Polycarp. Ugh. Such people would probably spit on them too, even as they claim to revere the scriptures and all this.

Well, it is kind of expected. There are a lot of ministers here yet nobody calls them by their titles.

I have only seemed Father Matthew being addressed by his title at TAW, yet only by Eastern Orthodox.

 

[GenemZ]

If you were alive in the first church? How would you address the apostles?

Either a bishop, Patriarch, Pope, Ecumenical Patriarch. How would you greet that person? With a kiss, reverence?

If you were alive in the first church? How would you address the apostles?

By their names!

 

[Not David]

If you were alive in the first church? How would you address the apostles?


If you were alive in the first church? How would you address the apostles?

By their names!

Even Protestants refer to them as their titles "Apostle John", "Apostle Peter".

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Either a bishop, Patriarch, Pope, Ecumenical Patriarch. How would you greet that person? With a kiss, reverence?

does anyone greet a bishop with a hearty huzzah?

 

[Paidiske]

Which title do people usually address you?

Reverend, or Mother.

But a bit of context; Australia has a very informal, first-name-basis culture in most contexts, and the use of titles is usually reserved for very formal occasions. So in general most of the time, most people just call me by my first name, and mean no disrespect by it.

Well, it is kind of expected. There are a lot of ministers here yet nobody calls them by their titles.

Not actually true. I have had people here address me by title, both in threads and in PMs. I don't expect it but accept it as a lovely gesture of respect when it happens.

(And it's definitely more pleasant than the folks who feel the need to go out of their way to insult an ordained woman... ).

 

[GenemZ]

Even Protestants refer to them as their titles "Apostle John", "Apostle Peter".

I said if you were alive when they were alive... Today we have become institutionalized and formalized. Back then respect was given for the excellence of their teaching.. not a piece of paper with a title on it.

They were called by their names, but recognized for their position.

If I saw Paul walking down the street and ran to him and wanted to ask him a question? I would have slowed down and walked up to him, and would have said... "Hello Paul! May I ask you a question?


7 they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.

8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant.

 

[Not David]

I said if you were alive when they were alive... Today we have become institutionalized and formalized. Back then respect was given for the excellence of their teaching.. not a piece of paper with a title on it.

They were called by their names, but recognized for their position.

If I saw Paul walking down the street and ran to him and wanted to ask him a question? I would have slowed down and walked up to him, and would have said... "Hello Paul! May I ask you a question?


7 they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.

8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant.

Actually, Paul referred himself as an Apostle and a father. So if I were at that time, I would refer to them by those titles.

 

[Not David]

Reverend, or Mother.

But a bit of context; Australia has a very informal, first-name-basis culture in most contexts, and the use of titles is usually reserved for very formal occasions. So in general most of the time, most people just call me by my first name, and mean no disrespect by it.



Not actually true. I have had people here address me by title, both in threads and in PMs. I don't expect it but accept it as a lovely gesture of respect when it happens.

(And it's definitely more pleasant than the folks who feel the need to go out of their way to insult an ordained woman... ).

Do I refer to you as Reverend Mother?

 

[Paidiske]

Do I refer to you as Reverend Mother?

Not unless I ever become an abbess.

If you were looking for what title to use out of courtesy, David, you're welcome to call me Mother. I really, honestly don't expect or require it though. I answer to Paidiske just fine.

 

[GenemZ]

Actually, Paul referred himself as an Apostle and a father. So if I were at that time, I would refer to them by those titles.

You confuse function for title. Some of the worst phonies and poor teachers I have witnessed to loved their title. I used to work for someone who was the president of his company. I still called him Artie.

 

[Not David]

You confuse function for title. Some of the worst phonies and poor teachers I have witnessed to loved their title. I used to work for someone who was the president of his company. I still called him Artie.

I try to call US Presidents by their titles even if I don't like them.

 

[FireDragon76]

It's kinda odd that titles are up for debate among people who dislike them or think they mean things they don't mean (who feel then free to disrespect the people who hold them in the most foul ways, e.g., farting in their face and all this nonsense), while at the same time in Western societies we are being told that if a man wants to be a woman, you need to address him as her or else it's a 'hate crime' or something. Can societies please just finalize this hierarchy of who gets respect and who doesn't so that we all know where we stand? And if it's as simple as "Well, I disagree with what other people do", okay. Take a number. Your concern will be answered in the order in which it was received.

Usually there is an inverse relationship, in my experience.

Sarah Palin's candidacy and Trump's election, and the so-called Tea Party movement, has been so successful in promoting extremism and incivility that even basic respect and courtesy in civil life are now fair game in some peoples eyes.

 

[Alithis]

Won't you say "hi" at least?

Its likely i would share the Gospel of Jesus with them calling on them to repent... I do so without respect of persons.

 

[SaintNick]

LOL. Is that the pseudo-adult way to say "I know you are, but what am I?"

Except I'm the victor.

 

[dzheremi]

Well, it is kind of expected. There are a lot of ministers here yet nobody calls them by their titles.

Who presents themselves here as a minister and requests such a title? With Orthodox or Catholic priests, it's a bit more obvious precisely because they maintain the proper reverence, so everyone knows to call them "Fr. So-and-So", but who has time to figure out what every self-ordained person might want to be called, let alone what we are to make of other situations like women clergypeople in those denominations that allow that? I'm happy to call people whatever their tradition has developed as a formal form of address, at least on their own subforum, but I have to know what it is first.

I have only seemed Father Matthew being addressed by his title at TAW, yet only by Eastern Orthodox.

Has Fr. Matt ever posted outside of TAW? I don't see where or when this would've come up if he's never posted on another forum.

And I call him Fr. Matt on TAW even though I'm not EO, because of what I just wrote.

 

[dzheremi]

Not unless I ever become an abbess.

If you were looking for what title to use out of courtesy, David, you're welcome to call me Mother. I really, honestly don't expect or require it though. I answer to Paidiske just fine.

I'm glad you do, because this would confusing to me. 'Mother' is only used for abbesses (either Tamav, which is Coptic, or Amma, which is Arabic) or some historical female ascetics in my Church, so if I were to call you Mother, it would sound like I was referring to one of the Desert Mothers, like St. Syncletica, St. Sarah, etc.

 

[GenemZ]

I try to call US Presidents by their titles even if I don't like them.

That is not the same thing. And, you know it its not. That is what is required of the world system.

Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay
taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect;
if honor, then honor. Rom 13:7​

That speaks of living in the world.

And, when using such emphasis and titles for the body of Christ? We are imitating the cosmic system's way in doing so.

I could have walked up to Paul, and said... "Hello Paul! May I ask you a question, please?"

Or? "Hi Peter! Loved your sermon yesterday!"

Where is that found today? Its become formality and a matter imagined fulfillment. Its like going to some priest for solving your problems and the non-answers are accepted as being an answer based upon the image that had been created for him. Religion.

One who truly teaches God's Word with maturity and skill will not need such formality. His respect will be from what he produces, not title.,, And, not what's anticipated from an image that his been created for him. Its why lousy and dumb teachers thrive. I am telling you the truth.