How to walk in the Spirit.

[Sidon]

The funny thing with this is, the idea that someone saying salvation isn't based on works, means the person saying so hasn't ever done any works nor plans to do any works. Who doesn't do works? Who's managed to go though life without helping someone out etc? James didn't give a whole long list of good works. He pointed out that Rahab the harlot helped out the spies. Period. Not that she did this, that, and the other every day of her life. So again, if works is needed for salvation, who has never performed good works? Probably no one. So why would there be an objection to doing what virtually everyone does already? That's not what the objection is about as I see it.

What yo are describing is a person who is religious, trying to keep themselves saved.
That would be a believer who is "fallen from Grace". and is in "the Flesh".
Thats most of them.
Very few believers, in this world, believe that the Blood of Christ is their salvation, and that is why they always talk about what they are trying to DO.
Thats "Legalsim", and this actually denies the Cross.
If a person teaches it, then they are this. Galatians 1:8

 

[Sidon]

Yes, it is. And you should know that by now if you’ve read scripture as much as I’m sure you have. All legalism involves trying to look righteous on the outside, with no change on the inside

You are describing an Apostate, or a Hypocrite.

You are not describing a legalist.
A legalist is a specific issue, as this person is trying to keep themselves saved by law, commandments, torah, lifestyle, or whatever they believe they have to DO, so that God will accept them and keep them.
They are also trying not to lose their salvation, as all Legalist believe that you can lose your salvation.

See, to believe that you can LOSE your salvation, means you believe ..:

1.) you can be unborn again.

2. ) that you have more power of yourself to cause your salvation to be lost, then God has power to keep you saved.

So, this person, is very self righteous, and very self deceived.

 

[Sidon]

I IDK. So do you sin, or not?? There’s no need for me to go back, with such an easy question to clarify here.

You're trying to play a "gotcha game" and that's because you can't defend your legalistic theology.

So, as i told you, I already clarified it for you, in detail, fhansen.
I can't make you understand it, tho.
See, you dont understand some things......like , all the believer's sin is gone.
So, for you to understand why a person who is born again, is this....
1 John 3:9 """" Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and HE CANNOT SIN, because he is born of God.""""


For you to understand that verse, you'd have to basically get rid of all of your theology, and start from here... Hebrews 13:9.

You're not going to do that, so, that is why you can't hear me.

 

[Sidon]

------

 

[Sidon]

We know them by their fruits,

The New Covenant in a nutshell.

You are again only talking about the "nutshell" of works, works, works, works, works, works.
God is not talking about that.....as its the fruit of the Spirit that is the real fruit.
Not whether you sit on the front row of your church again, or if you own the biggest KJV you can buy.

See, God is looking at MOTIVE, as that is the real "fruit".
People look at behavior and deeds.. and that can be faked, as i explained to you about the Devil and his people.

 

[Sidon]

Yes, and righteousness is love- in a nutshell. .

Righteousness is God's Blood.
If possible....then just think of God's Righteousness as The Cross, as its from the Cross, you find God doing what is necessary to deal with the sin of the world.

 

[Sidon]

Apostasy is the unforgivable sin.

Apostasy is not the unforgivable sin.
The unforgivable sin, that is the unpardonable sin, is only one.
Its the sin of never being born again. And to commit that one, can't be forgiven because to commit that one, you have to be a Christ Rejector and DIE.
If you do that... you have this issue. John 3:36.

See, God can't pardon your sin, if you reject the Pardon.
Christ is THE Pardon.
So, if you reject HIM< you have rejected the pardon, and have committed the UN- Pardonable, sin.
Its the sin of dying unforgiven, = a Christ Rejector

 

[Sidon]

My reply was in response to his statement

The reason Jesus gave for condemning these people was because of their “lawlessness” they did not hear his words and act on them as He explained in verses 24-27.

Jesus said in John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice I know them and they follow. These people heard but did not follow.

Many denominations are created by people who don't hear God's voice.
They are full every Sunday, and everyone there thinks they are right.

So, setting aside all that.....

To walk in the Spirit, is to have a renewed mind that is in perfect Alignment with God's perspective.

Specifically, a renewed mind is to only see yourself as God sees you at all time, according to being "Made Righteous".

Most believers and all hyper religious but lost, see themselves as a "sinner".
God does not see the born again as a "saved sinner".
Father God only SEES the born again as "the righteousness of GOD, IN Christ".

When a believer learns (renews their mind) to see themselves the same way, then they are walking in The Spirit., and not in the "natural" or "carnal" mind of self righteousness.

 

[Sidon]

You ignore half of the verses in the New Testament. You ignore Jesus’ parables and now Paul’s own words. According to you we should pick and choose what verses to take literally

Accusing me falsely does not make your theology true.

See, when a person can't defend their theology then a personal attack is always the only choice that is left for you.

You can do better, BNR32FAN
Try harder.
Be honest.

 

[Sidon]

No the problem is you disregard every verse that refutes your beliefs.

I teach Pauline Theology.
The verses i use are always exactly in line with that Truth.
That yours are not, is something you need to work out.

Start here. Hebrews 13:9 and stay there for LIFE.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Apostasy is not the unforgivable sin.
The unforgivable sin, that is the unpardonable sin, is only one.
Its the sin of never being born again. And to commit that one, can't be forgiven because to commit that one, you have to be a Christ Rejector and DIE.
If you do that... you have this issue. John 3:36.

See, God can't pardon your sin, if you reject the Pardon.
Christ is THE Pardon.
So, if you reject HIM< you have rejected the pardon, and have committed the UN- Pardonable, sin.
Its the sin of dying unforgiven, = a Christ Rejector

Yes no belief. Someone who is in apostasy does not believe (anymore).

 

[BNR32FAN]

Many denominations are created by people who don't hear God's voice.
They are full every Sunday, and everyone there thinks they are right.

So, setting aside all that.....

To walk in the Spirit, is to have a renewed mind that is in perfect Alignment with God's perspective.

Specifically, a renewed mind is to only see yourself as God sees you at all time, according to being "Made Righteous".

Most believers and all hyper religious but lost, see themselves as a "sinner".
God does not see the born again as a "saved sinner".
Father God only SEES the born again as "the righteousness of GOD, IN Christ".

When a believer learns (renews their mind) to see themselves the same way, then they are walking in The Spirit., and not in the "natural" or "carnal" mind of self righteousness.

The Christian walk as defined by Paul


“So this I say, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind, being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart; and they, having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness. But you did not learn Christ in this way, if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as truth is in Jesus, that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth. Therefore, laying aside falsehood, SPEAK TRUTH EACH ONE of you WITH HIS NEIGHBOR, for we are members of one another. BE ANGRY, AND yet DO NOT SIN; do not let the sun go down on your anger, and do not give the devil an opportunity. He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labor, performing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with one who has need. Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:17-32‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


“Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma. But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1-6‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[pescador]

What yo are describing is a person who is religious, trying to keep themselves saved.
That would be a believer who is "fallen from Grace". and is in "the Flesh".
Thats most of them.
Very few believers, in this world, believe that the Blood of Christ is their salvation, and that is why they always talk about what they are trying to DO.
Thats "Legalsim", and this actually denies the Cross.
If a person teaches it, then they are this. Galatians 1:8

So you've taken a poll and thereby have determined that very few believers, in this world, believe that the Blood of Christ is their salvation. Can you show us the actual data, or is this just your opinion? Have you ever read this: “Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For by the standard you judge you will be judged, and the measure you use will be the measure you receive. Why do you see the speck in your brother’s eye, but fail to see the beam of wood in your own?" Matthew 7:1-3

 

[pescador]

Sidon, you write often: Start here. Hebrews 13:9 and stay there for LIFE.

Hebrews 13:8-13, " Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever! Do not be carried away by all sorts of strange teachings. For it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace, not ritual meals, which have never benefited those who participated in them. We have an altar that those who serve in the tabernacle have no right to eat from. For the bodies of those animals whose blood the high priest brings into the sanctuary as an offering for sin are burned outside the camp. Therefore, to sanctify the people by his own blood, Jesus also suffered outside the camp. We must go out to him, then, outside the camp, bearing the abuse he experienced."

Here, obviously, the author is referring to ritual meals, nothing else. You extract part of a single verse then use it to condemn those who don't agree with you. Then you modestly post this: "I teach Pauline Theology.
The verses i use are always exactly in line with that Truth."

Why are you attempting to judge all those who don't accept your idea of Christianity?

 

[Sidon]

Yes, MADE RIGHTEOUS. Not with some sort of pretend righteousness, with no real change other than a positional change in status. Christ did way more for you than that.

Well, Salvation is a positional change
Its also an eternal change.
Its a birth into God's Spirit. (Born again).
So, that is definitely a change.
A person goes from "lost sinner" to "saved Saint".
A person goes from being a child of the devil to a Son of God.
A person goes from damned to Righteous.

And God does all of this. Philippians 1:6

Our part is to receive it.
We receive this "Gift of Salvation" and "Gift of Righteousness".

After this happens (born again) we learn how to exist in correct faith, which is to "work out your salvation".

 

[Sidon]

So you've taken a poll and thereby have determined that very few believers, in this world, believe that the Blood of Christ is their salvation.

Easily.
You can take the "poll" for yourself.

First, let me show you how Paul describes these people, who are born again, yet have stopped trusting in Christ to KEEP THEM SAVED.

See, thats the PROOF, as that is their spiritual/faith problem.

listen.....ITS NOT, if you believe that Christ is the Savior, but rather its , Do you believe that Christ Keeps you saved or not.
And 99% of born again Christians do no believe He does, and that is why they they will tell you that they can lose their salvation.
They will tell you that you can lose yours, also.
And that is the PROOF that they have lost trust in CHRIST, as they do not believe Christ keeps them saved.

Paul, in Galatians, says that these believers, are "bewitched", and "fallen from Grace" and are "in the Flesh".
Paul is correct.

Now, lets establish Salvation.
Its God coming here, as Jesus....... to eternally reconcile us to God. He did. Its done, 2000 yrs ago.
That is Salvation. Its the completed blood atonement.
God offers it at a GIFT. Its this. John 3:16

Now, this completed blood atonement does not include anyone's self effort, or commandment keeping, or works of any kind.
And once a person begins to try to add them to the Cross, they are doing this to try to stay saved, or to keep from losing their salvation.

So, you find most believers, are like this, and that is why they will argue until they explode that you can lose your salvaiton.
See, if they trusted Christ, they would trust Him and Him alone to keep them saved.
They dont. They DO NOT.
And that is about 99% of Christians.

Its no different on this Forum.
Its no different on any forum.
Its no different in MOST denominations.

 

[fhansen]

The young man couldn't stand the idea of what it took to become perfect.

It's both. Believers and unbelievers alike prefer to think that they're already "there", however each happens to define “there”. But the Christian walk is a lifelong journey. And yes, he didn't want to proceed with doing all that was required to achieve what he thought and hoped he already had.

Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”

26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Now how do you interpret verse 26? To me it means that when left up to man, it's impossible for man to enter the kingdom of God.

Well, yes, that's the basis of the new covenant. Apart from Me you can do nothing, but with God all things are possible, and I can do all things through Him who strengthens me: to combine three passages together. I can do with Him what I could not do on my own, apart from Him. And this includes obeying the commandments or doing for the least of these or putting to death the deeds of the flesh or forgiving others as God forgives us, or having a righteousness that exceeds that of the Pharisees and teachers of the law, or refraining from sin, or being holy, or doing good, with all of these generally connected in Scripture to gaining eternal life. Being with Him is prophesied in Jer 31:33-34-and this is a direct and personal knowledge of Him now:
"I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord."

And within that intimate relationship God does His work, of justifying:
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts. Jer 31:33

The vital knowledge mentioned above in Jer 31:34, the knowing and uniting with God, is echoed in John 17:3:
"Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."

By knowing the true God we have something of supreme inestimable worth to believe in, and to hope in, and, most importantly, to love. This begins here on earth but is only culminated in the next life:
"For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known." 1 Cor 13:12

The idea I believe is not to dismiss sanctification. You seem to think that's what it comes down to. That sanctification isn't supposed to be important according to the OP's theology. But what it really is, as I see it, is differentiating between justification and sanctification. In the theology you're presenting, from what I gather, basically justification comes by way of sanctification. Whereas in the theology the OP is presenting, it's the opposite order. Sanctification comes though justification.

Justification and sanctification must not be separated. IOW, being justified or made righteous must never be separated from actually being just or righteous, and not merely declared to be so IOW. And from that state, restored to the justice that Adam forfeited, and with even more grace yet now, in communion with God, we work out our salvation, we make our calling and election sure. He never overrides our wills completely but seeks to draw them into increasing rectitude, into alignment with His. We must play our role, however small. We must pick up our cross daily and follow Him.

 

[ozso]

It's both. Believers and unbelievers alike prefer to think that they're already "there", however each happens to define “there”. But it's a lifelong journey. And yes, he didn't want to proceed with all that was required to achieve what he thought and hoped he already had.

Well, yes, that's the basis of the new covenant. Apart from Me you can do nothing, but with God all things are possible, and I can do all things through Him who strengthens me: to combine three passages together. I can do with Him what I could not do on my own, apart from Him. And this includes obeying the commandments or doing for the least of these or putting to death the deeds of the flesh or forgiving others as God forgives us, or having a righteousness that exceeds that of the Pharisees and teachers of the law, or refraining from sin, or being holy, or doing good, with all of these generally connected in Scripture to gaining eternal life. Being with Him is prophesied in Jer 31:33-34-and this is a direct and personal knowledge of Him now:
"I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord."

And within that intimate relationship God does His work, of justifying:
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts. Jer 31:33

The vital knowledge, the knowing and uniting with God, is echoed in John 17:3:
"Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."

By knowing the true God we have something of supreme inestimable worth to believe in, and to hope in, and, most importantly, to love. This begins here on earth but is only culminated in the next life:
"For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known." 1 Cor 13:12

Justification and sanctification must not be separated. IOW, being justified or made righteous must never be separated from actually being just or righteous, and not merely declared to be so IOW. And from that state, restored to the justice that Adam forfeited, and with even more grace yet now, in communion with God, we work out our salvation, we make our calling and election sure. He never overrides our wills completely but seeks to draw them into increasing rectitude, into alignment with His. We must play our role, however small. We must pick up our cross daily and follow Him.

If you get hit by a bus tomorrow, do you think whether you go to haven or are cast into hell, will be based on your performance?

 

[fhansen]

Well, Salvation is a positional change
Its also an eternal change.
Its a birth into God's Spirit. (Born again).
So, that is definitely a change.
A person goes from "lost sinner" to "saved Saint".
A person goes from being a child of the devil to a Son of God.
A person goes from damned to Righteous.

And God does all of this. Philippians 1:6

Our part is to receive it.
We receive this "Gift of Salvation" and "Gift of Righteousness".

After this happens (born again) we learn how to exist in correct faith, which is to "work out your salvation".

Yes, its more than a positional change, we go from unrighteous to righteous, meaning more than a declared righteousness, more than a right standing in Gods eyes only, without regard to our possessing personal righteousness now. That would be like God burying His head in the sand and refusing to admit the truth-that, in fact, we still sin. So it means that we now put to death the deeds of the flesh (sin), because we possess the righteousness that's part and parcel of being a child of God and walking in His Spirit. Otherwise we die.

 

[fhansen]

If you get hit by a bus tomorrow, do you think whether you go to haven or are cast into hell, will be based on your performance?

It will be according to God's judgment -of how well I did with whatever He gave me. And the criteria, for those with understanding, is this:
"At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love."

You're saying, if I understand correctly, that if someone gets hit by a bus tomorrow he must have faith, or else he'll be cast into hell, eternal torment. I'm only saying, along with scripture, that he must have more than that.