How to walk in the Spirit.

[fhansen]

Neither history nor man trumps NT teaching of John 3:18, John 3:36.

The problem is that man trumps Scripture, as is evident on this thread with several Sola Scriptura adherents disagreeing on its meaning. I guess I should assume your in a different league or something tho?

Paul's distinction is not about where the effort comes from,
it's about what you rely on--works, (whether they be of law or grace), or faith for salvation (Galatians 3:10, Galatians 3:2, Galatians 3:5).

That, em, works, as long as one understands the role of faith. And as you may have stated in the past, sanctification is necessary for salvation?

 

[Clare73]

The problem is that man trumps Scripture, as is evident on this thread with several Sola Scriptura adherents disagreeing on its meaning. I guess I should assume
your in a different league or something tho?

Please clarify the question you are asking.

That, em, works, as long as one understands the role of faith. And as you may have stated in the past, sanctification is necessary for salvation?

Obedience is necessary for true faith, as well as for sanctification. Where there is no true faith, there is no salvation.

sanctification <-- obedience necessary for true faith --> salvation

 

[Ligurian]

But moreso, its who gave you all the Church Doctrine...= PAUL

With all authority, Jesus says He gave the words of the Father to the 12 men who belonged to the Father and were given to Him. The message from the Father doesn't change.

Matthew 28:16-20 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, "All authority is given unto Me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and disciple all gentiles, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world."

John 13:1-15:27 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, He shall testify of Me: And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with Me from the beginning.

Deuteronomy 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee(Moses), and will put My words in His mouth; and He shall speak unto them all that I shall command Him. 19 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever will not hearken unto My words which He shall speak in My name, I will require [it] of him.
=
John 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on Me, believeth not on Me, but on Him that sent Me. 45 And he that seeth Me seeth Him that sent Me. 46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on Me should not abide in darkness. 47 And if any man hear My words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth Me, and receiveth not My words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken of Myself; but the Father which sent Me, He gave Me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that His commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto Me, so I speak.

John 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered Him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.

Please tell me why you consider Jesus' words to have less authority than Paul's tradition.

 

[Ligurian]

And the best way to do that it to leave the "greek" alone and instead study a real Bible.

What does that even mean? Back in the day, the Papists kept the Bible out of the hands of the layman... because they wanted to be all powerful and act as the mediators that Jesus tells us plainly to avoid at all costs. Are you hoping to be a blind guide to the blind?

 

[ozso]

No, you teach your convoluted gospel. I'm on the forums, in part, to defend the true gospel, not watered down, not stunted, not convoluted-while you contradict much of the gospel. The only possible explanation to your objection as far as I can tell is this: you want no part in any obligation to be personally righteous in order to enter heaven-and you equate any such obligation with legalism, and if so, that is unscriptural, "un-Pauline" tripe.

We do not take away from-but only affirm -the work of Christ by following His will in being reconciled with God and living by His grace, by the Spirit, with the "righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith"-and being held accountable for doing so as we all should know that faith and the fellowship with God that it establishes is meant to produce real righteousness in us rather than a merely declared one.

Sorry, but I can't help but see a contradiction in terms here. You said flat out that your personal righteousness is what gets you into heaven.

 

[Ligurian]

Demons believe in Christ, yet they were casted out of Heaven for their lawlessness and defiance. Until you understand the definition of the Greek words pistis, pisteuo, and pistos you will never understand the biblical definition of the words faith, believe, and believer. I’ve already explained it to you but you chose to ignore it.

James 2:19-20 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

But why do people insist that the devil and his angels are already cast out of heaven, when Daniel and Revelation both absolutely prove that event hasn't happened yet?

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Revelation 12:7-12 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

 

[Ligurian]

Judas did the same thing, he performed miracles in Christ’s name and was condemned because of his disbelief.

Jesus says the Pharisees and their children cast out demons by the power of the prince of demons... in that verse where the Pharisees become guilty of the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, by saying that Jesus used the same tool the Pharisees use. Fruits are the only way to know which seed you're looking at, since the seeds of wheat and tares look the same. Does the person keep the commandments of God and trust the ultimate authority of Jesus?

 

[Ligurian]

1.) Paul was chosen by Jesus, when Jesus was back in Heaven.
So, God didnt give Paul to Jesus.

John 10:27-29 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of My hand. My Father, which gave them [to] Me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of My Father's hand.

John 6:44-45 No man can come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto Me.

Esaias 54:13 And I will cause all thy sons to be taught of God, and thy children to be in great peace.LXX

Jeremias 38:34 And they shall not at all teach every one his fellow citizen, and every one his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them:LXX

Matthew 23:8
ὑμεῖς δὲ μὴ κληθῆτε · Ῥαββί, εἷς γάρ ἐστιν ὑμῶν ὁ διδάσκαλος, πάντες δὲ ὑμεῖς ἀδελφοί ἐστε
You however not shall be called Rabbi One for is of you the Teacher all now you brothers are.

Jesus taught His 11 discipled-apostles, and these 11 disciples quoted Jesus. We will believe on Jesus through their word. John 17:20

Because we are all brothers with One-Teacher-Jesus, near-sighted-man won't lead the blind into the pit. One fold, one Shepherd. John 10:16

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, He shall testify of Me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with Me from the beginning.

The 11 Disciples from Galilee were with Jesus from the beginning, so these are the witnesses.

This is why the Dispensational College had to come up with the Kingdom Dispensation... so they could feel good about setting the words of Jesus aside in favor of Paul. But Jesus says His word will never pass away.

(shrug) Flip a coin. You can't have it both ways.
As for me, I belong to that One Fold, One Shepherd.

 

[pescador]

John 10:27-29 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of My hand. My Father, which gave them [to] Me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of My Father's hand.

John 6:44-45 No man can come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto Me.

Esaias 54:13 And I will cause all thy sons to be taught of God, and thy children to be in great peace.LXX

Jeremias 38:34 And they shall not at all teach every one his fellow citizen, and every one his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them:LXX

Matthew 23:8
ὑμεῖς δὲ μὴ κληθῆτε · Ῥαββί, εἷς γάρ ἐστιν ὑμῶν ὁ διδάσκαλος, πάντες δὲ ὑμεῖς ἀδελφοί ἐστε
You however not shall be called Rabbi One for is of you the Teacher all now you brothers are.

Jesus taught His 11 discipled-apostles, and these 11 disciples quoted Jesus. We will believe on Jesus through their word. John 17:20

Because we are all brothers with One-Teacher-Jesus, near-sighted-man won't lead the blind into the pit. One fold, one Shepherd. John 10:16

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, He shall testify of Me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with Me from the beginning.

The 11 Disciples from Galilee were with Jesus from the beginning, so these are the witnesses.

This is why the Dispensational College had to come up with the Kingdom Dispensation... so they could feel good about setting the words of Jesus aside in favor of Paul. But Jesus says His word will never pass away.

(shrug) Flip a coin. You can't have it both ways.
As for me, I belong to that One Fold, One Shepherd.

Now I don't have to buy a Bible!

(Too many disconnected references in your post.)

 

[fhansen]

Sorry, but I can't help but see a contradiction in terms here. You said flat out that your personal righteousness is what gets you into heaven.

Ok?? So where's the contradiction? The only one who can make you personally righteous is God.

 

[fhansen]

Please clarify the question you are asking.

Ok, what makes your interpretation of Scripture necessarily better than the next? When Scripture is the only authority one looks to in order to make determinations on the faith, with no consideration of a historical legacy or experience connected to the beginnings, then we have only our own opinions, from a perspective 2000+ years removed from the actual events, based on our reading of a Book that we've come to believe was inspired by God. And in many cases one person's Scripture-based argument is as plausible as another's, even if the two are in conflict.

Obedience is necessary for true faith, as well as for sanctification. Where there is no true faith, there is no salvation.

Faith alone, then, doesn't save unless it results in real righteousness: sanctification. A merely imputed righteousness isn't sufficient IOW, to make one just, and therefore salvageable, in the eyes of God.

 

[Sidon]

That's a myth you live with which I have shown to be false.

You are under the self-delusion that if you post a verse, according to your theology, then it must be true.

I can say for certain that that isn't a fact.

Here is the thing.
I preach the Cross. Christ Crucified.
I teach the very simple principle of Pauline Theology.
This is..the Blood Atonement and what it has accomplished, as "the gift of salvation" and "the gift of righteousness" and Romans 4:8 and Romans 3:21-28.

You dont like any of this, as for some reason you have an issue with Giving God full credit due Jesus The Christ for saving all the born again and keeping them saved.

So, that's on you, clare73.

 

[Sidon]

Incredibly naive. . .

While I am both "human" and "a human," God is "spirit" (without boundaries, omnipresent),
while it is Satan who is "a spirit."

So much for the "non-translator" who assumes the ability to judge translations. . .

God is A Spirit.
Shame on you for defining Him in the same category as the Unholy spirit.

also, Your posts make no sense.
They typically dont even respond, in context, to what i posted that you are replying to, clare73..

See , You just decided that if a fake bible makes no distinction between the Holy Spirit and the unholy, then this isn't worth knowing

You have some spiritual things you need to work out, and the translated greek isn't helping you.

Apparently i just called out your favorite bible version, and you didnt like it much, and overreacted.

 

[Sidon]

So your saying that the original message that was inspired by God needs to go away because it is insufficient compared to newer versions. No thanks, I prefer what the original Author wrote.

What are you saying now?

The original version is the LETTERS the Apostles wrote.
The GREEK isn't the original ,its the translation of the Original letters, into the Greek.

Wake up.
Give me something in a post that shows you are thinking before you post.
Ok?
Thks.

 

[Sidon]

No, that doesn't work either I'm afraid. Do.you know any other way to 'try it'? I'm all ears.

I can teach you, but i can't learn it for you.

So, work on that.

 

[Sidon]

God was never taken out of the verse, it was added into it in the 16th century..

Stop the nonsense.
You are lost in commentaries.
Everything you post is.....>"here is what i was told to think by a commentary, or an online source, or by some teacher, that isn't related to the NT".

You have to become a believer in something other than wrong theology.

Read Paul's epistles.
Stay away from everything else for a year.

 

[Sidon]

With all authority, Jesus says He gave the words of the Father to the 12

Please tell me why you consider Jesus' words to have less authority than Paul's tradition.

Paul isn't one of the 12.

Discover why Jesus, went back to heaven, and then Called out this Man.
Find out why JESUS chose Paul to write most of the NEW TESTAMENT, instead of the original 12.

Find out why, when we are in the "time of the Gentiles", you have one "gentile apostle" who isnt one of the 12.

God and find all this out, and then you'll know what you don't know now, Ligurian.

 

[Sidon]

What does that even mean? Back in the day, the Papists kept the Bible out of the hands of the layman... because they wanted to be all powerful and act as the mediators that Jesus tells us plainly to avoid at all costs. Are you hoping to be a blind guide to the blind?

Be more concise.
Share with the readers here that until '1961 the Catholic Church restricted their followers from reading the bible, and they were instructed to only ask their Priest for answers.
In 1961 they finally relented and "allowed" their followers to open a bible and search the scriptures.

'1961".

 

[Hmm]

God is A Spirit.

The trouble with that is that it means that God is a member of the collection of things that we categorise as Spirits in the same way that other members are just as we may say that humans and kangeroos are both mammals. God is not 'a', meaning an instance of anything. He is not an object within the universe and so cannot be an example of any category: He is unique. Clare more accurately said that God is "spirit". Language cannot define God exactly of course but that's far better than your definition which is false.

 

[ozso]

Ok?? So where's the contradiction? The only one who can make you personally righteous is God.

Okay never mind then I guess. Personally righteous sounded like righteousness from self ie self-righteousness. Although 'the only one who can make you personally righteous is God' is what Sidon has been saying.