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How to walk in the Spirit.

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Sidon, May 21, 2021.

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  1. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Words have meaning. . .I guess for some the discipline of language can be "acrobatics."
    And what it actually says is in the meaning of the words.
    All sin is grieving the Holy Spirit.
    All sin is not apostsy.
    The born again do not apostasize (John 6:39).
    None of which I deny.

    Nor do I deny John 6:39, John 10:28; Romans 8:29-30; Ephesians 1:4-8, Ephesians 1:11-12, etc.

    I reconcile them, rightly handle the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15)--understand them in a way that does not disagree with any of them.

    And that is what you must learn to do if you wish to rightly handle the word of truth.
    Your understanding must always be in agreement with all Scripture, or you are setting the word of truth against itself, and truth does not give the lie to itself.

    Care to comment on God's secret will for Pharaoh (Exodus 4:21) and his revealed will to Pharaoh (Exodus 4:22, 5:1), in the light of Deuteronomy 29:29?
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2021
  2. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Please demonstrate.

    My demonstration of your straw man:
    I neither stated nor implied that you "rely on the law."

    The context of my presentation of Galatians 3:10 was clearly regarding the unrighteousness of the Jews. . ."All who rely on the law are under a curse."
    There was absolutely nothing stated to indicate it referred to you.

    But now I wonder if you ascribed it to yourself because you do rely on the law.
    In whose estimation. . .the offender or the offended?
     
  3. Sidon

    Sidon Well-Known Member

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    a person "remains in Him" by being "in Christ'.

    See the "IN". "CHRIST"

    Do you know what "in" means?

    So, the born again, are born again INTO God's Spirit.
    The born again become 'ONE with GOD, and Christ".

    To become ONE< is to be found "IN"...

    That is how you "remain in Him".

    If you are not born again, then you are not in Him, and so you can't remain in him.
     
  4. MMXX

    MMXX Well-Known Member

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    Could you elaborate on some that please?
     
  5. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    I already explained John 6:39. God doesn’t desire those who are given to Christ to be lost anymore than He desires for all men to be lost. My point here is that the same Greek word is translated to “will” in both John 6:39 and 1 Timothy 2:4. The only difference is John 6:39 uses the noun form and 1 Timothy 2:4 uses the verb form. So John 6:39 does not say what you think it does.

    Do you? Because every time we get on the subject of John 15 you begin to contradict what is being said. Last time you were basically saying that those who didn’t abide in Christ weren’t truly in Christ to begin with except you used the term “ they weren’t of the kingdom of God” as a reference to being in Christ instead of just coming out and saying that they weren’t actually in Christ, which is contradictory to what Jesus actually said. If they weren’t in Christ to begin with then they wouldn’t have failed to remain in Him if they were never in Him to begin with. And verse 6 is only one tiny aspect of the implications in John 15. In verse 4 Jesus tells His 11 faithful apostles to remain in Him which doesn’t make any sense if they are incapable of falling away. In verses 4-5 He tells them why they must remain in Him, which is completely irrelevant if they are incapable of falling away. I’m verse 6 He tells them the consequences of failing to remain in Him, which these consequences in no way shape or form were excluding them. Then in verse 7 He tells them what they can expect IF they remain in Him which would be an automatic outcome if they were incapable of falling away and again would be completely irrelevant and useless information. If they were incapable of falling away then it would make more sense to say “since you abide in Me” or “because you abide in Me” but because Jesus chose the word “IF” it indicates an uncertainty, a condition that must be met in order to receive the promise given.

    I will gladly explain every single verse you have to support my theology without any contradiction whatsoever.

    Yes God used Pharaoh as a vessel for destruction because Pharaoh was never going to repent and humble himself to God. Pharaoh being probably the most powerful man in that region, if not the entire world, was a prime candidate to show God’s awesome wrath and power by showing that even the most powerful empire in the world was no match for Him.

    Now for the explanation of the verses you quoted. I apologize I have to be quick in my response because I’m at work but I’ve already explained John 6:39. John 10:28 who does Jesus give eternal life to? Those who hear and follow or those who heard and followed? John 10:28 doesn’t contradict the idea of someone falling away at all. The rest of the verses you quoted are referring to the elect who were written in the book of life before creation according to God’s foreknowledge. These are obviously not examples of those who do not remain in Christ. Just because those whom God has foreseen who will abide in Christ were written in the book of life before creation doesn’t mean that they were ever incapable of falling away. They have the same free will that everyone has, it’s by their choice to remain in Christ that they were written in the book of life. God called them, granted them grace enabling them, and by His grace they are able to choose to accept Christ and remain in Him, at the same time they are just as able to turn away from Christ if they so choose. God’s grace does not force anyone to do anything and neither does the Holy Spirit. If that were the case then Christians would never sin. If you want to discuss these more I will be happy to when I have more time. God bless.
     
  6. Sidon

    Sidon Well-Known Member

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    Well, until he shows back up to talk more about the law, law, law, law, law, law, law, law, ......Let me tell you what He gets "tired of".

    He "gets tired" of real believers who understand that the "eternal one time sacrifice of Christ's blood", has eternally reconciled all the born again to God.

    He "get's tired" of being told by me again and again, that you can't stop being born again.

    He "gets tired" of hearing that "the same blood of Jesus that saved you, always keeps you saved".

    He "get tired" of reading that "Christ HAS redeemed the born again from the curse of the law".... because he was taught by deceivers that he is supposed to keep the law or he'll go to hell.

    He "gets tired" of real believers giving all Credit to Christ for shedding His blood to save them and keep them saved".

    He "gets tired" of reading where Christ said that if you believe in Him (born again), you HAVE eternal life, and will never perish".

    He "gets tired" of reading... "As Christ is, so ARE the born again IN THIS WORLD".
     
  7. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    So when Christ said in verse 4 “Remain in Me” these men weren’t in Him yet?
     
  8. MMXX

    MMXX Well-Known Member

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    I bet you get tired of that.
     
  9. Sidon

    Sidon Well-Known Member

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    No, He is explaining to you and to me, the way you do it.

    You remain, "IN"< by being IN.

    Now think.
    Can you get "in Christ" by being good? by giving to the poor? by, tithing? by, water baptism? by, any self effort?

    So, when YOU are talking about ':remaining", you are talking about doing good deeds to remain in Him.

    But, if you can't get into Him by good deeds, then how can that then be how you remain?
    If what cant put you " IN CHRIST", is any self effort or work, then how can you stop remaining, by not doing what can't put you in there to begin with?
    See it?

    So, you remain, "IN" Him, according to what put you there..

    = Born again.

    WHen you are born again, you become "IN" .
    see it?

    "in Christ". = Born again.


    That is how you remain, as how can you not...
    God Himself PUT YOU IN Christ, and you will remain THERE, as that is to be "Born again", into..."One with GOD, In Christ".
     
  10. Sidon

    Sidon Well-Known Member

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    Not at all.
    I Love to lift up The Cross.

    With Him, he had the usual stage of becoming mildly insulting for awhile.
    Legalist do that, as when you kick their law and self effort that they trust instead of Christ, they become "agitated".
    He had that, but for the most part, he just runs with the one obsession that he has...which is.>"we are saved to then go back to the law and keep it".

    When he reads...."Christ has redeemed us from the CURSE of the LAW", and realizes that he is telling other believers on a Christian forum that they are to go back to the "curse of the Law", ..i wonder if he ever has a moment when he thinks..>"what am i doing"..>"why did i believe this all these years".. "why am i still following this church/cult".

    People like this guy, who is so dedicated to being wrong...when they find out they were fooled by their "church"....they come back with a VENGEANCE, and its for the RIGHT LIGHT, the 2nd time around.

    He does not have that yet, but if that happens to him, by revelation, he will really do some good for other believers.
    But not yet.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2021
  11. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    He’s not explaining to you and me He’s talking directly to His 11 faithful apostles.

    So when He said in verse 4 “Remain in Me” were these men in Him or not?
     
  12. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    Ok so according to this since Jesus told His faithful 11 apostles to remain in Him then they must not have been in Him yet, even though Jesus said they were not of this world.
     
  13. Sidon

    Sidon Well-Known Member

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    They were all chosen by God, to be a part of Christ's earthly ministry.
    Christ said that none were lost but Judas. John 17:12
     
  14. Sidon

    Sidon Well-Known Member

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    John 17:12
     
  15. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Yes, noun forms and verb forms of the same word have the same meaning:
    justification (n.) is the same as justify (v.),
    imputation (n.) is the same as impute (v.),
    sanctificatin (n.) is the same as sanctify (v.),
    belief (n.) is the same as believe (v.),
    salvation (n.) is the same as save (v.),
    redemption (n.) is the same as redeem(v.),
    resurrection (n.) is the same as resurrect (v), and
    God's will (n.) is the same as God wills (v.)
    In light of all the NT, we see a principle involved: that "in the kingdom does not necessarily mean of the kingdom." That is the principle, which applies in John 15 if you are to handle the word of truth so that it does not give the life to itself.
    Holiness and perseverance involve our action (obedience) in the Holy Spirit. How else
    are they going to know what action/obedience are involved if they are not explained to them?
    Good for you!
    Agreed. . .which was not the point of the question.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2021
  16. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    Ok so they were in Christ then, right? So if they were in Christ and you say that to remain in Christ means to be in Christ then that doesn’t make any sense that Jesus would be telling them to be in Him if they are already in Him. Perhaps, just maybe, He was saying exactly what He said which was to remain in Him, not to be in Him. Remain, stay, continue. It’s simple English there’s no hidden meaning or riddle to decipher.
     
  17. MMXX

    MMXX Well-Known Member

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    Why would we need the old covenant law when there's so many new covenant commandments given by Jesus and the Apostles?
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2021
  18. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    I just get tired of convoluted gospels stemming from people like yourself who lack a sufficiently full knowledge of God and His will. And then go on to actually teach such confusion!
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2021
  19. MMXX

    MMXX Well-Known Member

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    Usually the accusation is simplifying the gospel which is why it's derogatorily called "easy believism".
     
  20. MMXX

    MMXX Well-Known Member

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    It seems abundantly clear that there are many times in the Bible that just faith and belief are all that's needed. But also many times in the Bible that conditions are added. So it seems to me in my flawed human reasoning, that either the Bible is contradictory and misleading, or that the Bible is taking about two different things. Those two things being justification and sanctification.
     
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