Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Hmm. It's been said in many ways on this thread IMO but I'll try to sum it up. Under the New Covenant man is still obligated to be personally righteous-that doesn't change. Sin separated man from God to begin with and will continue to in the future. When the time was ripe Jesus came to address this problem once and for all, to take away the sins of the world. From our perspective faith is the cure, because it places us back into right relationship with God. Justice, itself, demands this because man is lost and disordered-sinful- without it. So God is immensely pleased with faith, this turning of man back to Himself. The Old Covenant served, for one thing, to teach us one important lesson, that man, on his own, cannot be good enough to please God. Man’s real “job” is to come into relationship with Him first of all, a relationship of humble love, which is why the greatest commandments are what they are. To the extent that we do this, becoming like God, who is love, all the harm that one human causes to another would disappear; love excludes sin by its nature (Rom 13:8-10). That love, love of God and neighbor, the greatest commandments, is the goal of the new Covenant. That would make our obedience and righteousness flow naturally and willingly, of its own accord. If Adam was ready for it in Eden, he never would’ve disobeyed. And faith is the doorway to this love, because faith is the entrance way to God for man. But love is the core, the heart and soul of Christianity. It's the motivation behind everything Jesus said and did-it’s the reason why we need to believe in God, so we can come to love Him -and neighbor-as He first loved us (1 John 4:19).
But some have come to focus so exclusively and myopically on faith, as if it, by itself, is almost a single one-time magical cure for all that ails fallen man-almost as if faith defines, or replaces the need for, righteousness for man and nothing else is necessary in order to be right with God, and therefore saved. But the New Covenant does not abolish our need to fulfill the law, rather it finally provides us with the only authentic means to fulfill it, by the Spirit, with God rather than apart from Him. Man’s obligation to be righteous can only be fulfilled by love. Man is obligated to love. And that love is a gift, a work of God’s in us, and a human choice, to accept and embrace and live that gift. To the extent that we do, God’s universe comes back into order. That’s what He wants, that’s what He expects, from and for us. Because there’s no greater gift. It's the gift of Himself. And love acts, for the good of others, by its nature, as Jesus did; it's the opposite of legalism.
Jude dealt with this twisting of God's Grace, into legalism.
Paul dealt with these same types, who accused Paul of teaching "sin to bring Grace".
So, here is the situation.
The Grace of God, is a Gift. And this Gift, is eternal righteousness, that is based on the Blood of God.
So, a legalist changes this, into....>"ok, God saved me, but now i have to ...do, do, do, and dont do, to keep myself saved".
So, that is a rejection of the Cross and the Grace of God that pretends that its God's Grace.
See it?
So, what these deceived people do, in Jude's day, and in Paul's day, and until now, is they twist God's Grace and deny it....like this..
= They refuse to accept that you do nothing to be saved, and they replace it, with, "self saving" theology.
And what does that does, what that theology does, is it replaces GRACE with WORKS.
And they say it like this....>"well, you are teaching LICENSE TO SIN"....
And in fact, THEY are denying GRACE, by saying that GOD's GRACE is License.
And that theology, is this..... Galatians 1:8
You'll find this theology RAMPANT on forums and in denominations.
Its Cross Rejecting Legalism.
I believe our love will get us into heaven, if we've cooperated with God in attaining it, at whatever level He deems sufficient. IOW, as scripture tells us, grave sin, which is diametrically opposed to love, to God, will keep us out of heaven. If you got all that above, you'll get that.I get all that. But it doesn't really answer what I asked. Do you believe that your level of performance on earth is what will get you into heaven?
Lets look at what you posted, and bring it into the context of a Born again person's discipleship.
1.) walk no longer as the gentiles..... in the futility of their mind
Now this is explaining the religious mind of self righteousness, or the idea of trying to reach God or become God by self effort. (Religion).
This is all religions. = Its the religious mind.
Its the mind of the flesh that is trying by self deeds to be accepted by whatever deity the gentiles are chasing, or, in New Age understanding its trying to BECOME Deity or release the deity that is in you, they teach.
I believe our love will get us into heaven, if we've cooperated with God in attaining it, at whatever level He deems sufficient. IOW, as scripture tells us, grave sin, which is diametrically opposed to love, to God, will keep us out of heaven. If you got all that above, you'll get that.
Hmm. It's been said in many ways on this thread IMO but I'll try to sum it up. Under the New Covenant man is still obligated to be personally righteous-that doesn't change. .
If you understand my post just previous to this one, you'll understand the last line. Love is the opposite of legalism. "
The quote is from a 16th century believer in Spain. "
Usually as I understand it, saying a believer has fallen from God's grace means they have lost their salvation.
That was the Jews not the Gentiles. The Gentiles were ungodly sinners. Did you even read the chapter? Pau.
no thank you. I'll quote scripture along with anything that conveys the truth accurately. If you were to say something astute regarding the faith should I disregard it as something that might be helpful in understanding it? as something unquotable in other words?If possible, quote a non-corrupted version of the NT as your proof text.
Or, just Quote Paul, in context.
Go there first.
There are both legalists and non-legalists who believe that one can lose their salvationYes, Legalist teach that "falling from Grace" is to lose salvation.
These same teach that "dead faith" means salvation is lost.
In both cases, thats the person who is the very one that is fallen from Grace who teaches this theology of self saving.
Well, kinda.
Here is how God does it.
A person repents from their unbelief, and BELIEVES in Jesus.
God SEES this faith in you, and "faith is counted as righteousness".
So, based on that ONE TIME FAITH, God then washes you in the Blood Atonement.
NOW you are clean, having been made so by Christ's blood that is your eternal sacrifice for all your sin.
All.
THEN, after you are clean, God moves in, and you get the New Birth , and you become a New Creation.
Yes, Legalist teach that "falling from Grace" is to lose salvation.
These same teach that "dead faith" means salvation is lost.
In both cases, thats the person who is the very one that is fallen from Grace who teaches this theology of self saving.
Paul says this..
"who has bewitched YOU', that YOU no longer OBEY .... THE......TRUTH">.
That's Galatians., and these same are now in our era defined as LEGALISTs
They are "fallen from Grace".
This means they have left trust in Christ to keep them saved, and are now back under the law, trying to keep themselves saved.
How do you spot these people?
They will teach you, that you can lose your salvation.
And they will show you all that you must do to keep yourself saved, and none of it includes Trusting in Christ to keep you saved.
These LEGALIST, will have a LIST.......and its all that they are trying to do, in place of ONLY Trusting in the SAVIOR to keep themselves saved.
Easily.
You can take the "poll" for yourself.
First, let me show you how Paul describes these people, who are born again, yet have stopped trusting in Christ to KEEP THEM SAVED.
See, thats the PROOF, as that is their spiritual/faith problem.
listen.....ITS NOT, if you believe that Christ is the Savior, but rather its , Do you believe that Christ Keeps you saved or not.
And 99% of born again Christians do no believe He does, and that is why they they will tell you that they can lose their salvation.
They will tell you that you can lose yours, also.
And that is the PROOF that they have lost trust in CHRIST, as they do not believe Christ keeps them saved.
Paul, in Galatians, says that these believers, are "bewitched", and "fallen from Grace" and are "in the Flesh".
Paul is correct.
Now, lets establish Salvation.
Its God coming here, as Jesus....... to eternally reconcile us to God. He did. Its done, 2000 yrs ago.
That is Salvation. Its the completed blood atonement.
God offers it at a GIFT. Its this. John 3:16
Now, this completed blood atonement does not include anyone's self effort, or commandment keeping, or works of any kind.
And once a person begins to try to add them to the Cross, they are doing this to try to stay saved, or to keep from losing their salvation.
So, you find most believers, are like this, and that is why they will argue until they explode that you can lose your salvaiton.
See, if they trusted Christ, they would trust Him and Him alone to keep them saved.
They dont. They DO NOT.
And that is about 99% of Christians.
Its no different on this Forum.
Its no different on any forum.
Its no different in MOST denominations.
Yes, Legalist teach that "falling from Grace" is to lose salvation.
These same teach that "dead faith" means salvation is lost.
In both cases, thats the person who is the very one that is fallen from Grace who teaches this theology of self saving.
Paul says this..
"who has bewitched YOU', that YOU no longer OBEY .... THE......TRUTH">.
That's Galatians., and these same are now in our era defined as LEGALISTs
They are "fallen from Grace".
This means they have left trust in Christ to keep them saved, and are now back under the law, trying to keep themselves saved.
How do you spot these people?
They will teach you, that you can lose your salvation.
And they will show you all that you must do to keep yourself saved, and none of it includes Trusting in Christ to keep you saved.
These LEGALIST, will have a LIST.......and its all that they are trying to do, in place of ONLY Trusting in the SAVIOR to keep themselves saved.
I believe our love will get us into heaven,.
no thank you. I'll quote scripture along with anything that conveys the truth accurately. If you were to say something astute regarding the faith should I disregard it as something that might be helpful in understanding it? as something unquotable in other words?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?