How to spot the Devil

[pescador]

Agree. The fact that Jesus was accused of breaking the Sabbath and Jesus never sinned, that in itself means Jesus kept the Sabbath. I think we all should because this is our Saviors chosen day. Exodus 20:8-11 He said its a sign between Him and His people Ezekiel 20:20

God bless!

No, it means Jesus never sinned, even when He was healing people and permitting His disciples to eat grain on the Sabbath.

Why do you and others keep interpreting OT law as though it applies to those of us (Christians) who are not under law but under grace?

Exodus 20 was not written to those of us who are not OT Jews.

 

[Bro.T]

Not sure what translation your using but Exodus 20 does not say the seventh day of the week.

Let's got to Exodus 20: 1 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 and shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 but the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
13 Thou shalt not kill.
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

 

[klutedavid]

When God gave the commandment not to work on the Sabbath the Jews had to contemplate what that meant by “work”. So they began to define what they considered to be “work” and forbid people to do these things according to the Mosaic Law. The actual commandment of God in Exodus 20 does not define what God considered as work.

They had a preparation day before the Sabbath day, so that food could be prepared the day before. That means no shopping or cooking on the Sabbath day. It is not a stretch of the imagination to understand that if cooking is prohibited. Then virtually all other activity would be likewise restricted.

The Sabbath was a day of rest from all forms of labor. Even walking was restricted to a certain distance on the Sabbath day. The only exception to this Sabbath rule were the activities of the Levitical priesthood.

Jesus being the Great High Priest performed His work on the Sabbath day. Jesus preached, taught, healed, travelled, on the Sabbath day. Jesus was in obedience to a much higher authority, His Father. Jesus worked every Sabbath day in His ministry.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

No, it means Jesus never sinned, even when He was healing people and permitting His disciples to eat grain on the Sabbath.

Why do you and others keep interpreting OT law as though it applies to those of us (Christians) who are not under law but under grace?

Exodus 20 was not written to those of us who are not OT Jews.

It's not a sin to eat on Sabbath.

Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27. Notice He did not say Jews.

It's a sin even in the NT to break one of God's commandments. 1 John 3:4.

 

[BNR32FAN]

However, Jesus clearly said "If you had known what this means: ‘I want mercy and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent. For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath.” Matthew 12:7-8

Jesus is clearly saying that keeping the Sabbath is not a legal requirement. He controls the Sabbath observance; He is not bound by any commandment to do so.

Working on the Sabbath was punishable by death as per God’s commandment.

“The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ‘You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. Therefore you are to observe the sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the Lord; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭31:12-15‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

So before Christ’s ministry keeping the Sabbath was a legal requirement, but I do believe He has given us freedom from that legal obligation and I believe Romans 14 is a prime example of that.

 

[BNR32FAN]

They had a preparation day before the Sabbath day, so that food could be prepared the day before. That means no shopping or cooking on the Sabbath day. It is not a stretch of the imagination to understand that if cooking is prohibited. Then virtually all other activity would be likewise restricted.

The Sabbath was a day of rest from all forms of labor. Even walking was restricted to a certain distance on the Sabbath day. The only exception to this Sabbath rule were the activities of the Levitical priesthood.

Jesus being the Great High Priest performed His work on the Sabbath day. Jesus preached, taught, healed, travelled, on the Sabbath day. Jesus was in obedience to a much higher authority, His Father. Jesus worked every Sabbath day in His ministry.

That’s a very interesting observation on this subject. Thank you I appreciate you pointing that out. I believe that makes very good sense. I wasn’t aware that the priests were permitted to work on the Sabbath.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Working on the Sabbath was punishable by death as per God’s commandment.

“The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ‘You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. Therefore you are to observe the sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the Lord; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭31:12-15‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

So before Christ’s ministry keeping the Sabbath was a legal requirement, but I do believe He has given us freedom from that legal obligation and I believe Romans 14 is a prime example of that.

I do not think Paul is deleting God’s Sabbath day in Romans 14. They are discussing the annual feast days, which in context to Romans 14 is about food not God’s weekly Sabbath that is a commandment of God and we are told part of an eternal covenant Psalms 89:34 and has nothing to do with food.

The Feasts days was a ceremonial ordinance from the law of Moses, not one of God’s Ten Commandments.

Paul makes this distinction when he says:

but keeping the commandments of God is what matters. 1 Corinthians 7:19
I do not think Paul preaches two different gospels from one chapter to another.

Even if Paul was talking about God’s Sabbath, which I do not think he was, Paul or any other man does not have the authority to erase one of God’s commandments. God’s commandments are a unit of Ten. They are so important to God, He didn’t want anyone else to write His laws, so God came down from Heaven and wrote them with His own finger. These commandments was stored in the Most Holy of God’s Temple, because of their significance. The Sabbath day will never be erased from God’s Ten. Exodus 31:16 God said REMEMBER His Sabbath day. We do not have a God of confusion. On the New Heaven and New Earth His Sabbath will be the day we worship Jesus Isaiah 66:23 just like we should right now.

I hope you will consider these scriptures.

God bless!

 

[Ligurian]

If you trust Jesus, you do what Jesus tells you to do.

I have already lost track of how many times and in how many different ways you've called lies the direct quotes of Jesus.

As if that's not stunning in and of itself, what's equally amazing is the fact that people are still reading a few of the words you type... from what's starting to seem like they've already been posted by you on another forum. ... It's either that, or you now have a tribe of ghost writers on retainer, considering all the whinning you did about keeping up with that one little thread.

You can do what Jesus said to do, (10 commandments) (OT Law), and die and go to hell.
[...]
And Christ's born again disciples, are to "present our bodies a living sacrifice".

Jesus said..."you must be born again". as that proves you have What Jesus said is FINISHED, 2000 yrs ago.

You're only Jesus' disciple if you continue to keep His word. Everyone here knows by now that ain't you.

Don't you remember that we've already had this discussion?

What is Finished?
Answer: All that was necessary for Jesus to literally become
the Passover Lamb slain before the creation of the world.

The original Greek is in (parentheses)...

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be (ginomai) fulfilled.
Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be (ginomai) fulfilled. 35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.

Ginomai is "generated", according to Strong's.

John 19:28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now (teleo) accomplished, that the scripture might be (teleioo) fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
19:29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put [it] upon hyssop, and put [it] to His mouth.
19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, He said, It is (teleo) finished: and He bowed His head, and gave up the ghost.

That this scripture might be fulfilled:

Exodus 12:21 And Moses called all the elders of the children of Israel, and said to them, Go away and take to yourselves a lamb according to your kindreds, and slay the passover. 22 And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and having dipped it into some of the blood that is by the door, ye shall touch the lintel, and shall put it upon both door-posts, even of the blood which is by the door; but ye shall not go out every one from the door of his house till the morning. ... 26 And it shall come to pass, if your sons say to you, What is this service? 27 that ye shall say to them, "This passover is a sacrifice to the Lord, as He defended the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when He smote the Egyptians, but delivered our houses."

This text proves that hyssop was needed for the service of the Passover.
Jesus came to fulfill all that was written of Him concerning His first advent.

Matthew 26:12-13 For in that she hath poured this ointment on My body, she did [it] for My burial. Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this Gospel shall be preached in the whole world, [there] shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.

This ointment is (myrrh). Myrrh and Frankinsense came from the wise men of (anatole) [Greece literally called Anatolia "the east"]... Smyrna, one of two blameless churches in Asia (anatolia), is (Myrrh). Frankinsense is (libanos), translated Lebanon.

Not being of the Kingdom Gospel persuasion, you can't possibly know the significance of this.

 

[Ligurian]

Please quote me where I said Jesus had to keep 613 commandments. Maybe you can provide scripture where it says 613 commandments.

Jesus said He kept His Father's commandments, I believe Him, do you? John 15:10

Jesus quoted from God's Ten commandments Mathew 19:17-19 (not 613) that His Father and ours wrote with His own Finger Exodos 20 and told us it was an eternal covenant Psalms 89:34. Jesus told us it is important to keep these commandments. I believe Jesus and so should everyone. God bless.

I thought that number was common knowledge, which is why I used the number. (shrug)
613 commandments - Wikipedia

Sure I believe Jesus. But that's not all I think Jesus is talking about when He says He kept His Father's commandments.

Enter Into Life

1. Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. (Matt.22:37)
2. Thou shalt do no murder,
3. Thou shalt not commit adultery,
4. Thou shalt not steal,
5. Thou shalt not bear false witness,
6. Honour thy father and mother,
7. Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. (Matt.19:18)

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to (pleroo) cram full. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be (ginomai) come into being. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousenss] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 23:25)

And Continue On With Jesus

*-5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
*-5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
*-5:31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: (Matthew 19:7-8)
5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
*-5:33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
5:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
*-5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
*-5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

________________
Deuteronomy 13:3 ... for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

Doncha just love hopping between threads that have the exact same theme written by the same guy for the same purpose? yeah, me neither

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I thought that number was common knowledge, which is why I used the number. (shrug)
613 commandments - Wikipedia

Sure I believe Jesus. But that's not all I think Jesus is talking about when He says He kept His Father's commandments.



Doncha just love hopping between threads that have the exact same theme written by the same guy for the same purpose? yeah, me neither

I asked for biblical scripture, not the internet. Nor was that the main point to my post.

 

[klutedavid]

That’s a very interesting observation on this subject. Thank you I appreciate you pointing that out. I believe that makes very good sense. I wasn’t aware that the priests were permitted to work on the Sabbath.

Knowing that Jesus was Lord of the Sabbath and the Great High Priest also. One can understand passages relating to the Sabbath observance or lack of observance.

Matthew 12:1-5
At that time Jesus went through the grain fields on the Sabbath, and His disciples became hungry and began to pick the heads of grain and eat. But when the Pharisees saw this, they said to Him, “Look, Your disciples do what is not lawful to do on a Sabbath.” But He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he became hungry, he and his companions, how he entered the house of God, and they ate the consecrated bread, which was not lawful for him to eat nor for those with him, but for the priests alone? Or have you not read in the Law, that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and are innocent?

The innocence of the disciples in breaking the Sabbath due to their standing, as priests before the Lord.

1 Peter 2:9
But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession...

The disciples were working on that Sabbath day but were innocent, that is, in the eyes of the Lord of the Sabbath.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Knowing that Jesus was Lord of the Sabbath and the Great High Priest also. One can understand passages relating to the Sabbath observance or lack of observance.

Matthew 12:1-5
At that time Jesus went through the grain fields on the Sabbath, and His disciples became hungry and began to pick the heads of grain and eat. But when the Pharisees saw this, they said to Him, “Look, Your disciples do what is not lawful to do on a Sabbath.” But He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he became hungry, he and his companions, how he entered the house of God, and they ate the consecrated bread, which was not lawful for him to eat nor for those with him, but for the priests alone? Or have you not read in the Law, that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and are innocent?

The innocence of the disciples in breaking the Sabbath due to their standing, as priests before the Lord.


The disciples were working on that Sabbath day but were innocent, that is, in the eyes of the Lord of the Sabbath.

No, this passage does not mean the disciples broke the Sabbath or were working on the Sabbath, or that Jesus broke the Sabbath or that the Sabbath is no more because of this verse. Jesus was accused of not being the Son of Man too, because He was accused does that mean He is not our Savior? The disciples were eating on Sabbath and maybe you can show me where eating is a sin on Sabbath? We are told Friday is for the preparation of Sabbath, which includes cooking most of the foods, but its not a sin to eat on Sabbath. This is what the Pharisees accused Jesus of but Jesus never sinned.

Keep reading it tells us they were accused, not that they broke the Sabbath.

Mathew 12:
9 Now when He had departed from there, He went into their synagogue. 10 And behold, there was a man who had a withered hand. And they asked Him, saying, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?”—that they might accuse Him.

11 Then He said to them, “What man is there among you who has one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out? 12 Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.”

Jesus was our perfect, spotless sacrifice. He came to this earth as our perfect example for us. To imply Jesus was a sinner means there is no hope for any of us.

 

[Sidon]

Ok did you not say that Jesus didn’t keep the Sabbath?

Thats correct.

I said that Jesus healed ON the Shabbat, to teach LEGALISTS a lesson.

The shabbat is made for man.
Man is not made for the shabbat.
Jesus is the Lord of The Shabbat, exactly as Jesus is "Lord of All".

 

[Sidon]

Jesus said He kept His Father's commandments, I believe Him, do you? John 15:10

True.
But He was not keeping them to be SAVED or to try not to go to Hell.

Think on that.

 

[Sidon]

This is a legalist interpretation of the Sabbath requirements. Jesus clearly "broke the Sabbath" by healing people and permitting His disciples to eat standing grain -- just two examples.

Exactly.

Jesus is GOD.
God is The Lord.
Jesus is The LORD of the Shabbat.

 

[Sidon]

Jesus said:
John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

Thousands of commandment keepers went to hell today and tomorrow.
Why?

Because to Go to HEAVEN = Jesus said.......>"you must be born again"

Why?
Because the law and commandments can't make you or give you RIGHTEOUS, because they can't forgive your SIN.
And without that, = going to hell.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

True.
But He was not keeping them to be SAVED or to try not to go to Hell.

Think on that.

I do not need to think on that because the bible tells us to follow Jesus. John 12:26 Jesus was our perfect example for us. Jesus also told us to keep the commandments, just like He did. John 10:15. If we love Jesus we keep His commandments. John 14:15, 1 John 5:3

 

[Sidon]

The Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27. 3

Thank you.
That is what i told you in at least 4 posts.

The shabbat is made for man.
Man is not made for it.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Thats correct.

I said that Jesus healed ON the Shabbat, to teach LEGALISTS a lesson.

The shabbat is made for man.
Man is not made for the shabbat.
Jesus is the Lord of The Shabbat, exactly as Jesus is "Lord of All".

You very strategically avoided the rest of that explanation. Especially the part about where Jesus specifically said that He kept The Father’s commandments.

 

[BNR32FAN]

True.
But He was not keeping them to be SAVED or to try not to go to Hell.

Think on that.

Jesus can’t have broken the Sabbath and kept The Father’s commandments at the same time. That’s a contradiction, those two statements are in opposition to each other.