How to kill Palestinians

[Tanakh]

We are not saying it is justified . . .

We are saying it is understandable given the circumstances which the Zionists have imposed upon them - intolerable circumstances designed to cause the Paliestinans to loose all hope.

The cause of the problem is those who want the Paliestinians "liquidated" or at least ethnically cleansed from the land. . . . the Zionists of Isrrael and its supporters.

.

So then is it understandable that they go on buses and blow up Jewish children? After all they have been just so oppressed over the years that the only option is to resort to putting nuts and bolts into bomb vests and blowing everyone up in restaurants and shopping centers; yes that clearly is a sane response to the so-called "occupation" but then again Israel is not dealing with a sane people are they? And of course once again the blame is on the Jews for causing all the problems in the world.

Israel is entirely justified in their aggression towards the "Palestinians" and anyone else who opposes them for that matter. This is a matter of survival as this is the ONLY Jewish state in the entire world. Their are 22 arab Muslim country's so if they feel so oppressed then they can go elsewhere but Oh thats right their fellow Muslim country's wont let them in. Here is an example of Israel's oppression of the "Palestinians": Israel allows the Muslims to keep control of the Dome of the Rock and over the arab sector in Jerusalem, arabs can become members of the Israeli government, they can work under certain conditions in Israel proper and yet, for example, no Jew can live in Jordan or Saudi Arabia because if a Jew even thinks about going their they will be killed and if an arab sells a house to a Jew not only will that Jew be killed but the arab will be also only on the bases that they were selling to a Jew. First of all the Israeli government is way to kind to our enemies as it is especially with letting them keep control of the Dome of the Rock but yet people the world over keep saying that Israel is the big bad guy on the block never even bothering to look at who the real oppressors are. So to say that Israel and us evil Zionists are the cause of the problem is either being in denial or simply acting on your hatred of Israel.

 

[Micah68]

So then is it understandable that they go on buses and blow up Jewish children? After all they have been just so oppressed over the years that the only option is to resort to putting nuts and bolts into bomb vests and blowing everyone up in restaurants and shopping centers; yes that clearly is a sane response to the so-called "occupation" but then again Israel is not dealing with a sane people are they? And of course once again the blame is on the Jews for causing all the problems in the world.

Israel is entirely justified in their aggression towards the "Palestinians" and anyone else who opposes them for that matter. This is a matter of survival as this is the ONLY Jewish state in the entire world. Their are 22 arab Muslim country's so if they feel so oppressed then they can go elsewhere but Oh thats right their fellow Muslim country's wont let them in. Here is an example of Israel's oppression of the "Palestinians": Israel allows the Muslims to keep control of the Dome of the Rock and over the arab sector in Jerusalem, arabs can become members of the Israeli government, they can work under certain conditions in Israel proper and yet, for example, no Jew can live in Jordan or Saudi Arabia because if a Jew even thinks about going their they will be killed and if an arab sells a house to a Jew not only will that Jew be killed but the arab will be also only on the bases that they were selling to a Jew. First of all the Israeli government is way to kind to our enemies as it is especially with letting them keep control of the Dome of the Rock but yet people the world over keep saying that Israel is the big bad guy on the block never even bothering to look at who the real oppressors are. So to say that Israel and us evil Zionists are the cause of the problem is either being in denial or simply acting on your hatred of Israel and in your case it is obviously the latter.

Keep on with your rhetoric as it gives ample opportunity for truth. Curious, whose side do you think your king or God will be on when he returns the persecuted or the persecutor. Israel, with their elite weaponry and the fifth largest nuclear arsenal in the world, or the Palestinians with their second hand, primitive and home made weapons? And all that U.S. tax payer dollars that AIPAC And CUFI are so successful at lobbying for Israel; which is only a pawn in their scheme of ushering in the speedy return of Christ. Like God needs any help with doing HIS will. CZ could care less how many Jewish lives are lost/killed in the end, their belief is that THE End justifies their means.

Who's side will God be on, the oppressed or the oppressor?

 

[gwynedd1]

Wrong, he's saying that the Palestinians are not the innocents you want to paint them as. And yes, the majority DOES support these things, why? Because their leaders keep them poor and disenfranchised, blaming EVERYTHING on the Jews. The hopelessness of their situation, along with the fact that becoming a martyr is the ONLY way to guarantee your salvation in Islam, is the root causes of Suicide Bombers.

Rion,

Why does no one discuss the Israeli cluster bombs


http://hrw.org/english/docs/2006/07/24/isrlpa13798.htm

(Beirut, July 24, 2006) – Israel has used artillery-fired cluster munitions in populated areas of Lebanon, Human Rights Watch said today. Researchers on the ground in Lebanon confirmed that a cluster munitions attack on the village of Blida on July 19 killed one and wounded at least 12 civilians, including seven children. Human Rights Watch researchers also photographed cluster munitions in the arsenal of Israeli artillery teams on the Israel-Lebanon border.

To do such a thing it must be done by one with the authority of the state. Palestinian terrorists may or may not be condoned but in this case there is no doubt.
I'll tell you why people don't like the Palestinian terror as opposed to Israeli terror. They don't like the idea because they can image Palestinian style terror happening to them. People in the West are not afraid of cluster bombs because they will not be the targets.

 

[Tanakh]

Keep on with your rhetoric as it gives ample opportunity for truth. Curious, whose side do you think your king or God will be on when he returns the persecuted or the persecutor. Israel, with their elite weaponry and the fifth largest nuclear arsenal in the world, or the Palestinians with their second hand, primitive and home made weapons? And all that U.S. tax payer dollars that AIPAC And CUFI are so successful at lobbying for Israel; which is only a pawn in their scheme of ushering in the speedy return of Christ. Like God needs any help with doing HIS will. CZ could care less how many Jewish lives are lost/killed in the end, their belief is that THE End justifies their means.

Who's side will God be on, the oppressed or the oppressor?

Deuteronomy 4:31 "For HAHSEM, your G-d, is a merciful G-d, He will not abandon you nor destroy you, and He will not forget the covenant of your forefathers that He swore to them."

I do not trust "Christian Zionists" as they are only in this for themselves, to further their cause as they could truly care less about Israel. "Who's side will G-d be on, the oppressed or the oppressor?" G-d has clearly stated that His enemies are not His friends as anyone who opposes His nation is vile and must be destroyed so clearly He is on our side, the side of His chosen people.

 

[Servant222]

Who's side will God be on, the oppressed or the oppressor?

Here is what Psalm 37 suggests:

7 Be still before the LORD and wait patiently for him;
do not fret when men succeed in their ways,
when they carry out their wicked schemes.

8 Refrain from anger and turn from wrath;
do not fret—it leads only to evil.

9 For evil men will be cut off,
but those who hope in the LORD will inherit the land.



Of course, this assumes that the oppressed are worshipping and trusting the one and only true God.

 

[Servant222]

Rion,

Why does no one discuss the Israeli cluster bombs


http://hrw.org/english/docs/2006/07/24/isrlpa13798.htm

I don't know enough about this issue- but as far as I know, it was never raised as a significant issue by the United Nations observers that are there- just like they didn't seem to comment on the thousands of rockets that were brought into northern Lebanon by Hezbollah under their (the U.N.'s) watchful eyes.

Cluster bombs are a particularly dastardly weapon, like mines, but are they really any worse than the thousands of rockets that were indiscriminately fired at civilian areas of northern Israel during last year's war?

 

[Micah68]

I don't know enough about this issue- but as far as I know, it was never raised as a significant issue by the United Nations observers that are there- just like they didn't seem to comment on the thousands of rockets that were brought into northern Lebanon by Hezbollah under their (the U.N.'s) watchful eyes.

Cluster bombs are a particularly dastardly weapon, like mines, but are they really any worse than the thousands of rockets that were indiscriminately fired at civilian areas of northern Israel during last year's war?

UN: Million unexploded cluster bombs could be in Lebanon - Israel News ...
... to a million unexploded cluster bombs fired by Israel could be in south Lebanon, ... Slamming Israel. UN: Israel cluster bomb use in Lebanon outrageous' / Reuters ...
www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3308355,00.html

IDF admits targeting civilian areas in Lebanon with cluster bombs ...
... with cluster bombs-News and commentary relating to events in Israel, the ... regarding the scale of cluster bomb use, Halutz appointed Brigadier General ...
www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/789876.html

No cluster bombs to Israel - Israel News, Ynetnews
Ynet News: US Congress opposes delivering to Israel cluster bombs that were purchased before war even began ... to speed up a shipment of cluster bombs, ...
www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3290322,00.html

BBC NEWS | Middle East | UN denounces Israel cluster bombs
The UN humanitarian chief condemns Israel's heavy use of cluster bombs in the final days of the ... Factfile: Cluster bombs. Cluster bomb clean-up fears ...
www.news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5299938.stm

 

[Micah68]

Here is what Psalm 37 suggests:

7 Be still before the LORD and wait patiently for him;
do not fret when men succeed in their ways,
when they carry out their wicked schemes.

8 Refrain from anger and turn from wrath;
do not fret—it leads only to evil.

9 For evil men will be cut off,
but those who hope in the LORD will inherit the land.



Of course, this assumes that the oppressed are worshipping and trusting the one and only true God.

And where were you when your brothers and sisters in Christ were crying out for help?

Christians and Churches of the Holy Land

• Palestinian Christians, the "forgotten faithful," are Arabic-speakers who belong to the Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant communities. They are considered "forgotten" because most Christians in the West are unaware of their existence.

Joys of Jerusalem at Christmas

• So in the spirit and hope of the Blessed Season here is our annual list of 10 Jerusalem Joys.

"To such as these does the Kingdom of God belong!" Matthew 19:14​

 

[Servant222]

Many years ago, we helped sponsor a Vietnamese boat family. I would be willing to do the same with a Palestinian Arab Christian family. Bring them here to a land of peace where they can live with hope, go to Church without persecution, and enjoy all the other benefits that God has given many of us.

But I am not willing to support anyone who believes that they have a "God"-given right to reclaim disputed land by launching suicide bombers and rockets and other terrorist attacks, or otherwise acting contrary to Biblical teachings.

If there is to be a resolution of the Palestinian crisis in the Middle East, the only way that I see hope is for the Palestinians to renounce satanic leaders that are telling them that Allah or God is calling them to launch terrorist attacks against Israel to further their cause. That is totally against anything that my God teaches, and if their "God" is telling them otherwise, then they must question what they believe in- and make a big change.

As Christians, we must never forget that everything that happens is due to God's will and that if we follow His commandments and His guidance, we will never go wrong.

Suicide bombings, rocket attacks, and other terrorist acts are not something that is pleasing to my God.

 

[Micah68]

Many years ago, we helped sponsor a Vietnamese boat family. I would be willing to do the same with a Palestinian Arab Christian family. Bring them here to a land of peace where they can live with hope, go to Church without persecution, and enjoy all the other benefits that God has given many of us.

But I am not willing to support anyone who believes that they have a "God"-given right to reclaim disputed land by launching suicide bombers and rockets and other terrorist attacks, or otherwise acting contrary to Biblical teachings.

If there is to be a resolution of the Palestinian crisis in the Middle East, the only way that I see hope is for the Palestinians to renounce satanic leaders that are telling them that Allah or God is calling them to launch terrorist attacks against Israel to further their cause. That is totally against anything that my God teaches, and if their "God" is telling them otherwise, then they must question what they believe in- and make a big change.

As Christians, we must never forget that everything that happens is due to God's will and that if we follow His commandments and His guidance, we will never go wrong.

Suicide bombings, rocket attacks, and other terrorist acts are not something that is pleasing to my God.

A deed, title, keys, family roots and ties to the land constitute ownership. This land has been in some of these families, Christian, Muslim and a small minority of Palestinian Jews since the time of Christ and certainly since the time of Pentecost. And you say these people should give up their land because??????? Given a blood test these Semite's, also, probably have just as much if not more Jewish DNA that the European and other Jewish immigrants. Again, NO Where in the BIBLE does it say a MODERN MILITARTY has a right to come in and claim someone elses land. If one were to only follow the OT then surely you know that to clain and resettle the land they must do so ONLY as God's faithful servants and then Only GOD will then clear the lands and not a man made military, killing innocent faithful servants of God. NO way did God tell the Zionist to go in a kill his people, steal their homes and lands and certainly not in his name.

 

[Servant222]

Micah68

O.K., let's assume for a minute that you're right- the Palestinians are found to be the rightful owners of the land of Israel.

How would you propose the Israelis should be removed from the land? And where should they be sent?

 

[Micah68]

Micah68

O.K., let's assume for a minute that you're right- the Palestinians are found to be the rightful owners of the land of Israel.

How would you propose the Israelis should be removed from the land? And where should they be sent?

Israel was created almost 60 years ago in 78 percent of what was British Mandate Palestine, which at that time had been under control of the League of Nations since 1922. This division of land represented the acquisition of far more land that was proposed by the UN partition plan outlined in Resolution 181 signed November 29, 1947. This plan divided the land into an Arab state, a Jewish state and an international zone for Jerusalem. The British were to withdraw on May 15, 1948 and the two states would be created two months later. May 15, 1948 will be the 58th anniversary of the Palestinian ‘Al Nakba’, translated ‘the Catastrophe’ a day of remembrance for all Palestinians. To this day this resolution remains valid and yet the Palestinians still have not been granted statehood. It was Abba Eban, the former Minister of Foreign Affairs of Israel, who described this resolution as the birth certificate of Israel; by the same token this is also the birth certificate for the State of Palestine.

1993 saw the signing of the Olso Agreement in which the Palestinians agreed to accept 22% of their historic land and recognize the state of Israel in the remaining 78%. Then came Barak’s “generous offer”, in July of 2000, which proposed that the then 69 illegal settlements in the Palestinian Occupied Territories would be annexed into Israel, the Palestinians would then be expected to give up an additional 10% of their agreed upon 22%. Israel, of course would remain in control of all settlement blocks and Israeli only roads and highways that are to this day strategically scattered through out occupied Palestine. In other words Israel would have control over the sovereign land of the Palestinians with no end in sight to their illegal occupation.

According to Israeli historian IIan Pappe, Israel has killed over 50,000 Palestinians and purged over 800,000 indigenous Arabs from their homes and lands. Today refugees still wait to return to their homes as guaranteed by International Law and UN Resolution 194, the resolution Israel was required to sign before being accepted into the United Nations. Quoting Francis Boyle, legal adviser to the Palestinians during past Middle East negotiations, says: “If Prime Minister Barak is going to deny the right of the Palestinian refugees to return to their home,he will abrogate and violate one the most important conditions for Israel’s admission to the United Nations”. Boyle said, “That as a condition for the admission into the UN in 1949, Israel agreed to accept UN resolution 194 that says Palestinians should be allowed to return to their homes if they wish or receive adequate financial compensations if they choose to remain elsewhere…”

Israel was admitted as a member to the United Nations on May 11, 1949. Simultaneously, the Arab states and Israel signed a protocol stating that the UN Partition Resolution 181 and the partition map included in it, constituted the basis for negotiations. The Lausanne protocol stated that the aim of the conference was to achieve “as quickly as possible the objectives of the General Assembly resolution of December 11, 1948, regarding the refugees, respect for their rights and the preservation of their property, as well as territorial and other questions”. By signing the Lausanne protocol, the Arabs had in fact accepted the legitimacy of the UN Partition Resolution. They had abandoned the idea of Palestine as a unitary Arab state, accepted the reality of Israel, and agreed to solve the dispute by political means. On May 29, President Truman sent Israel a note blaming them and protesting their failure to make concessions at the Lausanne conference regarding the issue of refugees and boundary issues.

Since 1967 Israel has illegally occupied every aspect of Palestinian life, the “security” wall is literally cutting families off from their farmlands, healthcare, water sources, schools, families and jobs. The wall is caging the Palestinian people into open-air prisons, making a contiguous state impossible. Today Palestinians are no closer to the realization of the rights guaranteed to all human beings. Palestinians are still a people and a nation that are repeatedly denied the most basic freedoms, such as the right to life, liberty, justice, and freedom of movement and nationality. The failure to grant Palestinians statehood and the failure to pressure their, soon to be, 40-year illegal occupier into the implementation of all relevant UN Security Council and General Assembly Resolutions rests totally on the shoulders of the international Community.

-Micah 6:8

Washington Report of Middle East Affairs is a a 25-year-old publication founded by retired American foreign service officers.

Palestinian and Israeli Conflict 101

“I never lose hope” (interview with Rev. Naim Ateek)
Sojourner magazine, August 2005

 

[Rion]

Well, if she follows the Iranian President's line of thinking... Canada and the U.S. are to give up land for the "Zionists."

 

[Micah68]

Well, if she follows the Iranian President's line of thinking... Canada and the U.S. are to give up land for the "Zionists."

So this is what you understood from the above post? No wonder this explains a lot in how you interpret scripture.



Citizenship via Grandparents

Israeli Parents Make Use
Of U.S. Clause That Lets
Kids Become Americans
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB119249790610260189.html?mod=blog
By MIRIAM JORDAN
October 16, 2007; Page A6

A swelling number of Israelis are flying to the U.S., armed with tattered U.S. high school diplomas and faded marriage certificates, to try to tap into an obscure clause in U.S. immigration law that enables some grandparents to pass citizenship to their grandchildren.
For decades, U.S. citizenship could only be transmitted to a child by a parent. But 1994's section 322 of immigration law has provided another way in, and Israelis are taking advantage of it.

 

[Servant222]

Israel was created almost 60 years ago in 78 percent of what was British Mandate Palestine, which at that time had been under control of the League of Nations since 1922.

Wasn't Israel created over 2000 years ago when God led Moses to the Promised Land?

And is it not possible that God- our Christian God's will- is being done in the Middle East today?

Why do you and others not accept that the present situation is due to God's will; that God is still in control?

 

[Micah68]

Wasn't Israel created over 2000 years ago when God led Moses to the Promised Land?

And is it not possible that God- our Christian God's will- is being done in the Middle East today?

Why do you and others not accept that the present situation is due to God's will; that God is still in control?

My Dear, can you explain why Moses never got to go into the Promised Land?

Dueteronomy 34:1 Then Moses ascended from the deserts of Moab to Mount Nebo, to the summit of Pisgah, which is opposite Jericho. 1 The Lord showed him the whole land – Gilead to Dan, 34:2 and all of Naphtali, the land of Ephraim and Manasseh, all the land of Judah as far as the distant 2 sea, 34:3 the Negev, and the plain of the valley of Jericho, the city of the date palm trees, as far as Zoar. 34:4 Then the Lord said to him, “This is the land I promised to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob when I said, ‘I will give it to your descendants.’ 3 I have let you see it, 4 but you will not cross over there.”


Once again you choose to ignore the conditions for entering and holding the land.
The View from Mount Nebo is beautiful by the way.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Wasn't Israel created over 2000 years ago when God led Moses to the Promised Land?

That was about 3000 years ago, and it was UNMADE by God about 2000 years ago.

And is it not possible that God- our Christian God's will- is being done in the Middle East today?

NO! Not God's DIVINE will.

Why do you and others not accept that the present situation is due to God's will; that God is still in control?

There is God's perfect will, His DIVINE will.

Then there is God's permissive will. God has allowed it as He has allowed other evils.

By your line of argument, God has willed terrorism too.


We must differentiate between what God WILLS, and what He permits but are in reality the result of the evil in men's hearts.


We are also commanded to come to the aid of the oppressed.

We are also commanded to seek peace and pursue it with all men.

There can be no true peace without justice. We must seek for the end of the oppression of the Palestinians by the Israel government as Christians.



.

 

[Servant222]

That was about 3000 years ago, and it was UNMADE by God about 2000 years ago.



NO! Not God's DIVINE will.



There is God's perfect will, His DIVINE will.

Then there is God's permissive will. God has allowed it as He has allowed other evils.

By your line of argument, God has willed terrorism too.


We must differentiate between what God WILLS, and what He permits but are in reality the result of the evil in men's hearts.


We are also commanded to come to the aid of the oppressed.

We are also commanded to seek peace and pursue it with all men.

There can be no true peace without justice. We must seek for the end of the oppression of the Palestinians by the Israel government as Christians.



.

I agree with everything you say- except the first and the last lines. Peace is a two way street- both sides must stop ignoring God's commandments.
----------------------
When someone is trying to resolve an issue, you need to do so one step at a time, and ask yourself at every step: Is this taking me towards the goal of reconciliation, or away from it?

You also have to look forward- the past can't be changed, but the future can be.

So in the case of the Palestinians and the Israelis:

1. additional settlements in disputed lands are a backwards step.

2. suicide bombings are a backwards step.

3. refusing to recognize Israel's right to exist is a backward step.

4. not working to secure a Palestinian homeland is a backwards step.

5. indiscriminately firing rockets into Israel is a backwards step.

6. not allowing citizens to be free to embrace the religion of their choice, even if that means conversion, is a backwards step.

7. not allowing citizens of different faiths or ethic backgrounds to fall in love and marry is a backwards step.

8. inhibiting the free flow of ideas (free speech) and democracy is a backwards step.

9. accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, and following His commandments and the direction of the Holy Spirit, would be a huge step forward.

Anyway, you get my drift; maybe others can add their own "forward" and "backwards" steps with regard to bringing about peace in the Middle East.

 

[Micah68]

<H4 class=ttllft>Whose Promised Land: Israel and Biblical Prophecy.</H4><H5 class=ttllft>Dr.. Stephen R. Sizer,

The Revd. Dr. Stephen Sizer is the vicar of Christ Church, Virginia Water, Surry. He is acting Chairman of Living Stones, Chairman of the International Bible Society (UK), and an area tutor at the School of Theology, Westminister College, Oxford.

There are two essential questions I want to try and answer this morning, one political and one theological. They are multi-faceted and interwoven.
The political question is this. How should we as Christians view the situation in Israel/Palestine today, where two peoples claim the same territory? Is Israel a democracy or an apartheid State? Specifically, do we believe the Israeli authorities should continue to resist Palestinian aspirations to autonomy and statehood? Should they continue to occupy, settle and annexe more and more of East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza, creating small urban Bantustan reservations for Palestinians living under military occupation within a exclusive Jewish state. More…
http://www.christianzionism.org/Article/Kuttab01.asp</H5>

 

[Servant222]

I don't disagree with Reverend Stephen Sizer's basic premise- that both the Palestinians and the Israelis have a right to exist in the middle east.

But how to achieve a just settlement of the land dispute and how to bring about peace are the issues.

Neither issue will ever be resolved until both sides acknowledge each other's right to exist, and do only those things that lead to peace and resolution. As I said above, actions that take the players backwards in the wrong direction will never help resolve these matters.