klutedavid
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Hello Bob.The Bible says --
"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 because that is what people do who are not under the condemnation of the law as lost sinners.
Romans 2:14The Bible says --
"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 because that is what people do who are not under the condemnation of the law as lost sinners.
You are not under the law!
Hello Bob.
Still you are not under the letter of the law.
Romans 2:14
For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves.
.
Hello Gary.
Breaking the commandment to not steal, is definitely something a loving person would not do.6
I dropped out of this discussion last week because it was not going anywhere, clearly. But I just wanted to add one last comment. If you really believe that Jews do not celebrate anything on the Sabbath you are wildly mistaken about the religion, practice, and beliefs they hold - and where our faith originated. .
Hello Gary.
Breaking the commandment to not steal, is definitely something a loving person would not do. Obeying the commandment to not steal, is not necessarily an act of love. Lots of self righteous people never steal anything, they are never loving of others, judgmental yes, loving no.
Not sure why you assume that?
No one can keep the law and the prophets, only Jesus could fulfill that demand.
Matthew 7:12
In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
Jesus did not say keeping the law is the golden rule, you have it backwards. Jesus said it comes down to the way you treat other people, that is what the law is telling you. You failed point blank to obey the law.
It is not the letter of the law that is written on your heart, God Himself inhabits your heart.
Where does it say that witchcraft is worshiping other Gods?
The ten commandments do not mention witchcraft, not sure how you arrived at that idea.
You are under Grace and you are not under the law.
Attempting to obey the letter of the law, has no impact on the deeply rooted lusts of the flesh. Suppressing the desire to own your neighbors ox, will have no bearing on the way you treat widows and orphans.
You are not under the law!
Matthew 22: 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Ezekiel 36: 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25 ¶Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Hebrews 8: 4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away
Hebrews 9: 14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Colossians 2 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;:
2Peter 2: 17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
James 2: 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Acts 13:39
And through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.
.
Hello Bob.The Bible says --
"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 because that is what people do who are not under the condemnation of the law as lost sinners.
So then "do not take God's name in vain" -- still a sin for the saints if they should commit it.
For "sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4
Easy to explain, Paul in the early days of Christianity, had the habit of going to the synagogues to preach the gospel. Soon though, Paul would abandon this practice and concentrate on the Gentiles.Acts 13 - the larger quote
13 Now Paul and his companions put out to sea from Paphos and came to Perga in Pamphylia; but John left them and returned to Jerusalem. 14 But going on from Perga, they arrived at Pisidian Antioch, and on the Sabbath day they went into the synagogue and sat down. 15 After the reading of the Law and the Prophets the synagogue officials sent to them, saying, “Brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say it.” 16 Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand said,
“Men of Israel, and you who fear God, listen: 17 The God of this people Israel chose our fathers and made the people great during their stay in the land of Egypt,....
26 “Brethren, sons of Abraham’s family, and those among you who fear God, to us the message of this salvation has been sent. 27 For those who live in Jerusalem, and their rulers, recognizing neither Him nor the utterances of the prophets which are read every Sabbath, fulfilled these by condemning Him. 28 And though they found no ground for putting Him to death, they asked Pilate that He be executed. 29 When they had carried out all that was written concerning Him, they took Him down from the cross and laid Him in a tomb. 30 But God raised Him from the dead; 31 and for many days He appeared to those who came up with Him from Galilee to Jerusalem, the very ones who are now His witnesses to the people. 32 And we preach to you the good news of the promise made to the fathers, 33 that God has fulfilled this promise to our children in that He raised up Jesus, as it is also written in the second Psalm, ‘You are My Son; today i have begotten You.’ 34 As for the fact that He raised Him up from the dead, no longer to return to decay, He has spoken in this way: ‘I will give you the holy and sure blessings of David.’ ...38 Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, 39 and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses. 40 Therefore take heed, so that the thing spoken of in the Prophets may not come upon you:
...
42 As Paul and Barnabas were going out, the people kept begging that these things might be spoken to them the next Sabbath.
43 Now when the meeting of the synagogue had broken up, many of the Jews and of the God-fearing proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, were urging them to continue in the grace of God.
44 The next Sabbath nearly the whole city assembled to hear the word of the Lord.
Hello Bob.
I agree, the commandments of Jesus are compulsory.
I agree, do not take the name of Jesus in vain.
Nevertheless, Paul still states.
Romans 6:14
For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
Easy to explain, Paul in the early days of Christianity, had the habit of going to the synagogues to preach the gospel. Soon though, Paul would abandon this practice and concentrate on the Gentiles.
Hello Gary.I assume nothing about your position. You state your position quite plainly, and your position is in direct conflict with the words of Jesus in Matthew 7:12. Treating others the way you want to be treated is keeping the law. The same is true in reverse. If you keep the law you will treat others the same way you want to be treated. You disagree with Jesus in some pretty profound ways.
Jesus describes the keeping of the law in two ways: 1. the Golden Rule 2: loving God with all your heart and soul, and loving your neighbor as yourself. Treating people the way you want to be treated has nothing in common with breaking the 10 commandments. If you think it does, once again, prove that breaking the commandments is an expression of love for God and for your fellow man. You keep on claiming that obeying the 10 commandments has nothing to do with love for God and your fellow man, in direct opposition to the very plain words of Jesus addressing this very subject, so show how breaking them does express love.
The Golden Rule is the concept of treating others with love and respect, of loving others like you love yourself.
I see things quite differently than you do. When anyone does the things listed in the 10 commandments to me I know of a surety that they do not love me. If they did, they wouldn't do those things to me. You know that too, you just won't admit it.
I have to laugh at your statement that you don't know where the Bible says witchcraft is a sin. Go read 1Samuel 15:23 again and again, and then come back here and tell me that again. It is clearly defined in scripture as a sin, and will not be done by those who inherit the kingdom of heaven, as per Paul. And what is sin? It is the transgression of the law. The amount of scripture you ignore to come to your line of reasoning is amazing.
I also don't see why you keep on claiming that the promises of God are false. Why would you do that?
And what does Paul say about this line of thought?
Paul continues this thought in chapter 9. And how does he tie this to Jesus?
Jesus will purge our conscience from dead works to serve the living God. How? By the writing of the law in our hearts and minds. This is all one continuous thought in chapters 8 and 9. It is one continuous stream of reasoning. And Paul ties this together Colossians 2:
Do you understand what the "rudiments of the world" are? They are the established order of things here on earth. You know, sin, and hatred for God and His law. Those are the rudiments of this world. They lie beneath everything the world does.
In your mind you are complete in Jesus when you are full of sin and content to remain that way for your assumption is that sin will always rule over you here on earth. Jesus said, a man cannot serve two masters. He will serve only one master, and as long as you consider sin your master, to be always obeyed, then that is the master you will serve. We find this same concept in 2Peter:
The God I know is one of infinite goodness, power, and love. Apparently you don't worship a God that powerful.. In your mind sin is far more powerful than God. If that isn't so you would not, could not, make the arguments you do. We are circumcised without hands in putting off the body of sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Chrst. And when we were dead in our sins and the circumcision of flesh Jesus quickened us together with Himself. We are to take these promises by faith. We are to believe them and live our lives as if the reality is already done. We are to see by faith that substance of things hoped for and that evidence of things not seen. I will live by faith, not doubt.
So, accepting the devil as master and lord is not worshipping other gods? That seems to be your argument as you don't see a witch doctor practicing witchcraft as someone who worships and obeys someone other than God. That's a very strange position for a Christian to take. I guess all the missionaries sent by Christian churches have all been trying to stop the natives from worshipping God.
Where have I said "attempting to obey the law" changes my heart? Quote this to me. I have never said it, nor have I ever implied it. Instead I have pointed to the work of the Holy Spirit upon the heart, and that it is by this power and individual that we are made capable of obeying the law of God.
One last reply to something you said. How is self-righteousness not breaking the law of God, for self-righteousness is the setting of one's self against God's judgment of ourselves. It's saying, Oh, no, God, I'm righteous in and of myself no matter what your word says. Self-righteousness is idolatry of self. The self-righteous person is righteous in his own eyes. What need does he have of a Savior? So, your entire first paragraph is a fallacy. That's why Jesus said He didn't come to call the righteous to Him, but the sinners to repentance. Those who think they are righteous have no desire to hear a call to repentance for they do not see themselves as sinners, therefore they place themselves above the word of God.
You seem confused Gary.I have to laugh at your statement that you don't know where the Bible says witchcraft is a sin. Go read 1Samuel 15:23 again and again, and then come back here and tell me that again. It is clearly defined in scripture as a sin, and will not be done by those who inherit the kingdom of heaven, as per Paul. And what is sin? It is the transgression of the law. The amount of scripture you ignore to come to your line of reasoning is amazing.
Hello Bob.on the contrary Paul will go on from Acts 13... to Acts 18:4 with "EVERY SABBATH" Gospel preaching in the Synagogue -- as we both know.
Sadly we have "no EVERY week-day-1 Gospel preaching" in the NT... as we both know.
Hello Bob.
You reject Paul's instruction.
Paul says.on the contrary Paul will go on from Acts 13... to Acts 18:4 with "EVERY SABBATH" Gospel preaching in the Synagogue -- as we both know.
Sadly we have "no EVERY week-day-1 Gospel preaching" in the NT... as we both know.
You ignore the direct teaching of the apostle Paul, because you want to be under the law.Not in the least... and we both know it.
I take your tiny snippet quote from a chapter - and then show the larger chapter detail for it... and we both know it.
This is not the part where we differ in what we see being posted. We can all see this detail.
The Bible says --
"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 because that is what people do who are not under the condemnation of the law as lost sinners.
So then "do not take God's name in vain" -- still a sin for the saints if they should commit it.
For "sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4
Paul says.
Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.
Bob says.
Everyone is under the law.
Even the larger snippet is to early in the history of the church, to make definitive statements about doctrine. You need to read the entire New Testament, Bob.Not in the least... and we both know it.
I take your tiny snippet quote from a chapter - and then show the larger chapter detail for it... and we both know it.
This is not the part where we differ in what we see being posted. We can all see this detail.
You ignore the direct teaching of the apostle Paul, because you want to be under the law.
I can quote the entire book of Acts, yet Bob, you hold to the law regardless of what is written.
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